Just installed KO4s. Now what?

[jeffski1]

I'll try and keep this short and to the point. One of my turbos blew on my Allroad 2.7T. This is my daily driver, so I of course had to get it repaired asap. Luckily, I already had a pair of KO4s (part of the deal when I bought the car). I gave them to my mechanic to install and I now have the car back, but....

Ahhh...can you see where this is going???

Yep, a stock 2.7T with a pair of KO4s. It gets me to work, but it really doesn't work.

So here is my question...what else am I going to need to complete this upgrade? I need a parts list and opinions on the different companies I can buy the parts from (pro and cons).

Normally, I love reading the forums, to learn and educate myself, but I just don't have time right now to sift through the hundreds of posts on this subject. Normally, I would, but I feel a little pressed for time as the car just doesn't drive right now.


Again, I am looking for a list of parts that I am going to need and opinions on the different parts suppliers I could purchase the parts from (AWE, Autospeed, ECS, Etc.)

Thanks

[scot_w]

At the very least a chip to take advantage of the higher boost you can generate and larger fuel injectors to supply the needed go juice.

Here is what is in the GIAC K04 kit:
Custom GIAC proprietary software with optional Mobile Tuner technology
-Precision calibrated BorgWarner K04 turbos with inlet tubes
-CAD designed Mass Air Flow housing
-Custom silicone intake hose
-Bosch fuel injector set, flow balanced
-AWE tubular exhaust manifolds with anti-reversion collectors and Swain Tech ceramic coating

and their RECOMENDED UPGRADES

-Exhaust System: A full turbo back exhaust is required for safe use of our kit, and there is no better combination out there than the AWE downpipes and AWE Tuning cat back exhaust systems.
-Clutch: Highly recommended to cope with the extra torque. Our Stage 3 clutch kit is an excellent choice, especially paired with our lightweight aluminum flywheel.
-Brakes: The kit produces enough power to make the OEM brakes marginal. AWE Tuning recommends a Brembo front brake kit upgrade.
-Diverter Valves: Upgraded diverter valves are highly recommended even for stock S4s, let alone our RSK04 kit. AWE Tuning highly recommends Bailey Motorsport diverter valves.
-Cooling: An intercooler kit is almost mandatory when running high boost on the Audi® S4. AWE Tuning recommends the AWE intercooler kit.
-Boost Gauge: A boost gauge is a handy way to keep tabs on the pressure these big turbos are making, and AWE Tuning recommends our vent mounted boost gauge kit.


Unless you are willing to experiment, getting parts from the same kit maker will assure a better end result. i.e. if you get a GIAC chip get the injectors that match, if you go with an APR get the injectors that are matched to that system.

[audirs]

you could get it working as a stage 3- setup. i think youll need a 5bar FPR, injectors, and giac stage 3- tune. im assuming you had inlets already since you got the k04s installed already and driving it.

[jeffski1]

Thanks for the quick replies guys and thanks for breaking it down to 'what I need' and 'what can go on the wish list'. Right now, I just need to get the basics to make the car happy with its new huffers.

scot_w:

I think that is good advise, buying the parts from the same kit maker. It looks like you gave me the name of two or three companies--GAIC, APR, AWE? Are there any others?


audirs:

What exactly do you mean by 'giac stage 3- tune'?

Is there a recommended brand of Fuel Pressure Regulator (I assume that's what FPR means--I am very new at this)

What size fuel injectors are you guys using?

And lastly, where to buy?

Cheers

[audirs]

Thanks for the quick replies guys and thanks for breaking it down to 'what I need' and 'what can go on the wish list'. Right now, I just need to get the basics to make the car happy with its new huffers.

scot_w:

I think that is good advise, buying the parts from the same kit maker. It looks like you gave me the name of two or three companies--GAIC, APR, AWE? Are there any others?


audirs:

What exactly do you mean by 'giac stage 3- tune'?

Is there a recommended brand of Fuel Pressure Regulator (I assume that's what FPR means--I am very new at this)

What size fuel injectors are you guys using?

And lastly, where to buy?

Cheers

the giac stage 3- tune is software for your ecu. you will need a supporting tune to make it run proper. giac sells a tune called stage 3-. you can buy that tune, and run a bosch 5bar FPR. i was wrong you can use your stock injectors with this setup.

what year is your allroad?

[jeffski1]

I have a 2001 Allroad 2.7T 6spd

I will do some price searching for the parts you recommended. If I already have a GIAC chip, do you think I can just buy a new program for it?

Thank you very much.

[audirs]

2001 your maf should be okay too. i read you need a Hitachi maf, so you should be good. i heard if you already have a giac tune, you can upgrade to stage 3- for like 200 bucks

[jeffski1]

Ok, looks like I need to call the folks over at giac. Actually, I guess I first need to find out if I actually have one of their chips installed or not.

Thanks

[a62.7t4ceo]

Since you're in SoCal you should really give Jeff Moss from Torque Factory a call. He's at 310-466-4296. He's the leading GIAC distributor in the U.S. and provides excellent customer service. He'll be able to answer most if not all your questions over email or the phone.

[banditoamigo]

Details of my build are included in links below. You have a lot of options, and not all of them need to be expensive. The "recommended" list that GIAC/AWE includes is partially recommended to improve their cashflow. :-)

- Diverter valves: Consensus is to just go with the 710N valves (stock TT 225 units). Lots cheaper than the aftermarket stuff and just as reliable. That's what I have.
- Air filter: Keep the stock unit and do the "Darintake" mod (cut a hole in the bottom of the airbox): Google Darintake for details, but the aftermarket filters either mess up the MAF w/ the oil on them or let in too much junk. Our stock filters are really good.
- Hoses: Probably not necessary unless you're going to upgrade and/or they're already worn out. I have all the stock hoses except the throttle body boot, no problems.
- Exhaust: You can find RS6 exhausts for (relatively) cheap on ebay, AudiZine or the RS6 forums (like $700 or so), or if you go the custom route Magnaflow has a great setup, my exhaust guy did a great job for about $1,100. But if you do the exhaust you'll also want to gut the pre-cats and re-route the O2 sensors (called "piggie pipes" after a 2.7T tuner that made the mod famous). That's all I did, but it was easy with the engine out (and the shop threw it in for free).
- If you haven't gotten the H-Sports done yet, that's your first mod. Flattens the car right out and makes it feel WAY better. After having mine for 3 years, it's downright scary to ride in "stock" allroads now. Also consider getting a DTS (Drive Train Stabilizer) from AWE to firm up the chassis.

Been said above, but check http://allroadfaq.com and http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/ for general info.

Here's a few fun threads from the AudiWorld allroad forum RE: the above btw:
http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/...9.phtml#229603
http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/...9.phtml#236608
http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/...7.phtml#238803
http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/...1.phtml#237176

Good luck!

[Daft]

The Stage 3- file and FPR will make the car run much better. Stock software with K04s doesn't run very well. You end up with alot of timing retard since the mix is leaner and the timing is higher. Just make sure that you get a real Bosch 5.0bar Fuel Pressure Regulator. Some shops sell modified (read: crushed) 4.0bar. The crushed 4.0bar is not as linear in spring rate and will result in lean spots in the RPM range until the fuel pressure rises enough to compensate.

I must make it known that once you go with a Stage 3 or even 3- chip on that setup, you really will need to do the piggie pipes. The car will suffer at those boost/timing levels until you get those pre-cats out of there. My car was seeing 10-12 degrees of timing retard until I got the downpipes squared away. Now it sees no more than 3 degrees or timing retard.

The cat-back portion of the exhaust isn't nearly as critical as the downpipes. It's helpful but, not critical.

Even the air filter isn't critical. I ran an OEM air filter up until last month. I now run a K&N but, I'm running 22PSi and an 85mm MAF. The OEM filter was actually holding me back a tad.

On a Stage 3- setup, you're going to max out at 17-18Psi (if my memory is correct) and you're still using the stock MAF/MAF pipe and airbox. At those boost levels you might see 10-15 g/s less in airflow with a stock air filter.

The diverter valves are going to make an impact for sure so at least get a set of 710N valves from the dealer or if you'e got the extra cash, buy a set of Forge/Bailey/etc.. DVs.

Another really impotant thing that people skip over is maintenance items.

The vacuum lines, Throttle Body Boot (TBB), Fuel Filter and performing an intake leak test. These items are equally as important as the piggie pipes and the Stage 3- program itself.

So, my recommendation is:

1. Stage 3- GIAC program w/ Bosch 5.0bar FPR. - $795 or $200 with an upgrade from Stage 1 GIAC programming.
2. Piggie Pipes. - $400 + labor.
3. Diverter Valves. - $80 <-> $200 depending upon type.
4. Vacuum lines, TBB and Fuel Filter. - $15 for silicone vacuum line, $70 for Samco TBB and $20 for an OEM Bosch Fuel Filter.

[wofman]

Bandito & Daft -- you guys are making me hope my turbos go out! Sounds like a "3-" is not very expensive and I pretty much have everything except the K04s, FPR and GIAC upgrade. Need larger fuel injectors along with FPR, too, no?

Bandito - tell me more about AWE's drivetrain stabilizer.

[Daft]

Bandito & Daft -- you guys are making me hope my turbos go out! Sounds like a "3-" is not very expensive and I pretty much have everything except the K04s, FPR and GIAC upgrade. Need larger fuel injectors along with FPR, too, no?

Bandito - tell me more about AWE's drivetrain stabilizer.

No, that's the reason for the upgraded FPR. You raise the fuel rail pressure from 3.0 -> 5.0bar and the injectors can flow more fuel with the same duty cycles. This is acceptable in certain cases. You still only have so much fuel you can pass through the 310cc injectors so, once you go full Stage 3, the 310cc injectors are not enough even at 5.0bar of rail pressure.

The DTS is a really usefull part if you've covered all the other stuff. The only thing I wonder is how much improvement it can make on an A6 since we already have a black painted steel bar down there already.

[banditoamigo]

No, that's the reason for the upgraded FPR. You raise the fuel rail pressure from 3.0 -> 5.0bar and the injectors can flow more fuel with the same duty cycles. This is acceptable in certain cases. You still only have so much fuel you can pass through the 310cc injectors so, once you go full Stage 3, the 310cc injectors are not enough even at 5.0bar of rail pressure.

The DTS is a really usefull part if you've covered all the other stuff. The only thing I wonder is how much improvement it can make on an A6 since we already have a black painted steel bar down there already.

DTS connects the transmission to the subframe, and is a 30 minute install. The black cross-member that comes stock on our cars just connects the left and right frame sections, but doesn't connect the transmission to it. Net result is your shifting gets MUCH more accurate, and the entire driveline is tightened up.

You can fab up a DIY stabilizer for less than $10 if you know what you're doing: http://forums.audiworld.com/allroad/msgs/20429.phtml (images no logner there, but may be available on allroadfaq.com)