B7 A4 handling capabilities? Compared to what else you've driven

[xxForgedxx]

I was wondering how capable the B7 A4 is in the handling department. All one ever really hears is how the A4 is too heavy for its own good and that it can't beat the 3 series in handling characteristics stock for stock or mod for mod. How does the B7 A4 stack up to other cars in handling and feel, what are those other cars and with how much modification?

[AudiWxGuy]

Stock for Stock, BMW wins. However, once you start modding, I'm really not sure. Primarily b/c I'm not sure of what's available in the BMW tuning market.

[rams456]

i've driven a bmw 135, and i wouldnt' say it handles better, because if i took a turn at more than 3k rpm i would lose traction.
^^that would never happen with my a4

[Blarg]

I had a lowered Grand Prix before the Audi and it feels like a go kart compared to the Pontiac! Not really a fair comparison but I have driven BMWs and wasn't impressed enough to sway me away from the Audi.

[xxForgedxx]

Well typically in an AWD luxury sedan you would expect there to be enough understeer to redefine the term. I am curious to see what it would take to get an A4 to play ball like an S4 in the twisites. The S4 is still a troublesome car in the auto x

[rams456]

but I have driven BMWs and wasn't impressed enough to sway me away from the Audi.

x2
the only reason i would buy a bmw is because of its acceleration

[Jmaak]

Ive driven a stock 06 325i, and hands down it handled better than my a4. Had a lot more confidence in the car, with actual steering feel. My a4 has no suspension mods other than sport suspension. The only problem was that it was slow as hell compared to my stage 2 A4.

[Zebman]

I used to drive a Scion tC. All I have to say is LOL OMG WTF?

Seriously, that car handled like it was suspended by 4 Michelin men. Mushy, with body roll aplenty. My A4 was a fantastic change, although I never push the limits in it, since it was pushing the limits that caused me to roll my tC.

My mom's 530i handles about on par with the A4, although i'm too scared to push it hard (not mine, with a $56k price tag... no thanks).

[Clown4]

Zebman,
LOL I used to drive a toyota sienna, beat that!!
but i do love it's high end speed...straight line... it's a comfortable ride...
but making turns...just kills me.


xxForgedxx,
depends on which weather condition and speed that you're driving under.

My friend who owns an e90 323i called me up the other day,
and it was pouring rain~
he said he was doing around 120km/h, cutting from a right lane into a left one,
and he lost the control of the car for just a split second. That shit scared the hell
outta him(because he was trying to avoid those concrete bars that sppear when
there's like a merge lane from the right).
I always average around 140km/h on the highway, cutting lanes to me
is a joyful thing to do in the morning, even when it rains~
(well... his 323i's got stock, nonsports suspension, and mine's s-line sports,
so it might be a little bit unfair to compare the both of 'em huh?)
not to mention the steering that i got from the a4
@ high speed's awesome. You don't need to turn the steeringwheel too much.

I've driven an e90 325i~
I gotta say the acceleration and the gas pedal's more responsive than audi's.
HOWEVER, I like audi's gas more... cuz you would have to step on more
to get the same acceleration, so you won't jump the car sometimes when you're
not aware of it... i donno... my personal opinion :)

[p1nk50ck]

my is300 is on coilovers and stock swaybars, and outhandles the audi s-line stock suspension hands down. the car is much more nimble, and i can nail corners at high speeds with absolute confidence. when traction breaks, the car remains predictable.

the stock s-line suspension is horrible in my opinion. it feels like the rebound is very harsh. perhaps the springrate is too high? every little dip in the road sends me bouncing out of my seat. when cornering at moderate speeds, i feel like i'm in an suv coming out of the corner, swaying side to side.

however, the quattro grip is incredible. as much fun as it is to break traction around corners in the is300, rocketing through a corner with the awd grip is also a rewarding feeling.

my stasis street coilovers should be here in a week or two, and i'll be able to do a more fair comparison.


the 2nd gen mr2 i had handled extremely well. it had such a small wheelbase, and even with stock suspension was decently stiff, and could handle corners like a champ. the civic si i had was terrible.

[xxForgedxx]

sounds like the A4 whatever gen handles like pudding

[Clown4]

my is300 is on coilovers and stock swaybars, and outhandles the audi s-line stock suspension hands down. the car is much more nimble, and i can nail corners at high speeds with absolute confidence. when traction breaks, the car remains predictable.

the stock s-line suspension is horrible in my opinion. it feels like the rebound is very harsh. perhaps the springrate is too high? every little dip in the road sends me bouncing out of my seat. when cornering at moderate speeds, i feel like i'm in an suv coming out of the corner, swaying side to side.

however, the quattro grip is incredible. as much fun as it is to break traction around corners in the is300, rocketing through a corner with the awd grip is also a rewarding feeling.

my stasis street coilovers should be here in a week or two, and i'll be able to do a more fair comparison.


the 2nd gen mr2 i had handled extremely well. it had such a small wheelbase, and even with stock suspension was decently stiff, and could handle corners like a champ. the civic si i had was terrible.

the s-line sports suspension can't beat the coilovers from the aftermarket.
I know... you can literally feel the profile of the pavement on your spine~
which that i like LOL...and for not too overly driving,
the s-line stock sports suspension's gd enough.
you should put a sway bar on the a4 too.

your 02 is300's wheelbase is shorter, and the car's lighter as well~
with a sway bar and coilovers, a stock b7 s-line's handling is not as nimble.

[delta]

The handling on the A4 stock, is pretty bad. It has way too much understeer and body roll. Prior to this I had an E46 3 series with sport suspension and that handled so much better than my A4. Also steering feel on the BMW was a lot better. Even my dad's E60 5 series, which is a bigger car than the A4, handles better than my A4.

The A4 is not bad, it's pretty decent for most of the cars out there, but compared to BMW, I don't think it's still quite there yet.

[Auditude2.0T]

An A4 with Springs and Sways will out handle 90% of the cars on the road.

[QTC]

An A4 with Springs and Sways will out handle 90% of the cars on the road.

...and proper tires

[swoardrider]

Thats a tough question to answer, because handling is kinda a feel thing and means different things to different people. Most cars can be made to handle pretty well if you modify them enough. If you are talking stock vs. stock, many including myself will say BMW engineers the best "feeling" of a good handling sports sedan. They spend way more money on R&D than Audi in the suspension/handling area of a car. Audi tends to rely on AWD more to keep things in control.
Audi's B7 A4 suspension design is 10 year old technology. I'm glad to see they made some changes for the B8 A4. It is something you can definitely feel. The B8 is better balanced, better torque split, and the magnetic shock option is awesome. When I drove the B8 A4 against the rest (Lexus, MB, and BMW) at the Audi Driving Experience auto x, the A4 in dynamic handling mode and the BMW were the best handling, and felt almost identical.
My opinion is that the B7 handles fine for the masses, but falls short compared to some cars, especially BMW, from the same generation. The new B8 I think has caught up to BMW and maybe even passed them in some ways. But only when comparing the BMW to a B8 with ride control.

[supamannn99]

suspension is fairly solid, but i still feel all the weight it brings into the corners. the engine placement was poorly designed as well. It is mounted in front of the front axle, and therefore induces massive understeer. I would be so much better if the front axle was in front of the engine..

i've driven an RSX-s that is far lighter than A4's (2700lb) and that car, with coilovers, handles almost like a go-kart. but then again, that car doesn't have as much features as our cars do. the A4 is a luxury sedan lol.

[Louis J.]

my is300 is on coilovers and stock swaybars, and outhandles the audi s-line stock suspension hands down. the car is much more nimble, and i can nail corners at high speeds with absolute confidence. when traction breaks, the car remains predictable.

the stock s-line suspension is horrible in my opinion. it feels like the rebound is very harsh. perhaps the springrate is too high? every little dip in the road sends me bouncing out of my seat. when cornering at moderate speeds, i feel like i'm in an suv coming out of the corner, swaying side to side.

however, the quattro grip is incredible. as much fun as it is to break traction around corners in the is300, rocketing through a corner with the awd grip is also a rewarding feeling.

I find the above to be very accurate. That said, coils and sways can transform the handling characteristics of the A4. My car is lowered to 25" on Vogtland coilovers, aligned to RS4 specs but with an extra -0.3 camber in the front and OEM RS4 rear sway which is 4mm thicker than the stock sway on cars with sport suspension. My A4 is very compliant over bumps and rough pavement and when pushed in the corners, it's very neutral and responsive with minimal body roll and sharper turn-in. My setup is very acceptable and I get nearly the same times as I did with my Porsche 993 (PSS9s, upgraded sways and same Rt-615s as on the A4) at autox but I could spend twice as much and improve on what I have now. As for A4 vs 3 series, I drove a stock 335 coupe without sports package and while I was impressed with power and brakes, the car was scary when I pushed it on the twists...a heavy slush box. More handling comparos...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=porsche+autox

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=porsche+autox (post #13)

[xxForgedxx]

I find the above to be very accurate. That said, coils and sways can transform the handling characteristics of the A4. My car is lowered to 25" on Vogtland coilovers, aligned to RS4 specs but with an extra -0.3 camber in the front and OEM RS4 rear sway which is 4mm thicker than the stock sway on cars with sport suspension. My A4 is very compliant over bumps and rough pavement and when pushed in the corners, it's very neutral and responsive with minimal body roll and sharper turn-in. My setup is very acceptable and I get nearly the same times as I did with my Porsche 993 (PSS9s, upgraded sways and same Rt-615s as on the A4) at autox but I could spend twice as much and improve on what I have now. As for A4 vs 3 series, I drove a stock 335 coupe without sports package and while I was impressed with power and brakes, the car was scary when I pushed it on the twists...a heavy slush box. More handling comparos...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=porsche+autox

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=porsche+autox (post #13)

So what do you have for suspension mods and how harsh is your ride now?

[Louis J.]

So what do you have for suspension mods and how harsh is your ride now?

As posted above...Vogtland coils and OE RS4 sway. At 25.25" the ride is very compliant. I just lowered it again to 24 7/8 and I'm getting some rebound but turn-in is sharper (more camber).

[xxForgedxx]

As posted above...Vogtland coils and OE RS4 sway. At 25.25" the ride is very compliant. I just lowered it again to 24 7/8 and I'm getting some rebound but turn-in is sharper (more camber).

How much did those mods cost? How difficult is it for someone inexperienced with suspension adjustments to tweak?

[Louis J.]

Vogtalnd coils = ~$1,100. RS4 sway = $120. Alignment ~$100.

There are good DIY writeups for install but if you don't want to DIY, factor ~3 hrs for install at your shop's rate.

[xxForgedxx]

Vogtalnd coils = ~$1,100. RS4 sway = $120. Alignment ~$100.

There are good DIY writeups for install but if you don't want to DIY, factor ~3 hrs for install at your shop's rate.

No I mean... adjustments, for street or a track day. It seems like so much to tackle and configure. How does your A4 handle in comparison to a stock S4 with those mods? Better? Different?

[Louis J.]

My coils are only height adjustable and there are no adjustments on the RS4 sway. Adjusting settings on something like the Hotchkis sways is easy but fully adjustable coilovers are for experienced drivers. Even just compression and rebound adjustments can be tricky and even experienced drivers get it wrong. If you're just starting out, it may be better to go with a basic system.

I don't know how my car handles compared to a stock S4 but if both cars are stock or equally matched with mods, the A4 should handle better due to the fact that the S4 weighs 320lbs more at the very front of the car.

[Audi Juice]

Road and track managed to measure .97 lateral g's (from .86) with the stasis tuned A4. Look where that would put it on this chart. Right below the Z06. However, when you start modifying these cars then their handling limits increase as well.

[quattrosaint]

sounds like the A4 whatever gen handles like pudding

Stock yes, but with the right setup it can keeps pace with almost anything in the twisties. I auto cross and track it. I have no problem keeping up with Porsches, Evo's, Corvettes, and M3's. You have to learn how to drive properly and figure out the limits. When I first started the cars limits far exceeded mine (my race instructor showed me what my car was really capible of, he has an M3 and all he could say was man this car is fast) I am much closer to the limits of the car on the track now but in everyday driving there is no way to push this car close to its limits.

[quattrosaint]

Vogtalnd coils = ~$1,100. RS4 sway = $120. Alignment ~$100.

There are good DIY writeups for install but if you don't want to DIY, factor ~3 hrs for install at your shop's rate.

damn I paid $250 for my full RS4 alignment!

[Louis J.]

damn I paid $250 for my full RS4 alignment!

$100 doesn't include corner balance.

Forged: check out this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHexdrm5wpo

I saw it when I was starting to shop around for another car. Coming from Porsches, I was sold on the A4 right after seen it. When Spidee made that vid, he had a similar setup to what I have on my car: Stasis streetsport coils, Neuspeed rear sway, APR93 and some light weight wheels with Falken 452s (300 treadwear). He's a good driver but the vid also shows how capable the A4 can be.

[muffinman]

i came from a toyota corolla so yes, relatively speaking, my a4 handled like a goddamn ferrari

[80sGuy]

I was wondering how capable the B7 A4 is in the handling department. All one ever really hears is how the A4 is too heavy for its own good and that it can't beat the 3 series in handling characteristics stock for stock or mod for mod. How does the B7 A4 stack up to other cars in handling and feel, what are those other cars and with how much modification?

BMWs handle better mainly because of their front wheel arch design. It is unusually situated much more forward than most (if not) all vehicles, which; in turn benefited to better overall handling and during turns.

Look at the front wheel arches from the pics below...


BMW M3 (BMW's signature stretched front wheel arch design)



2008 B7 Audi A4



2009 Audi B8 A4 - clearly evidenced here that Audi is steering towards BMW's path. In my opinion, the B7 A4 is still a beefier and more aggressive looking Audi (A4)!

[p1nk50ck]

I find the above to be very accurate. That said, coils and sways can transform the handling characteristics of the A4. My car is lowered to 25" on Vogtland coilovers, aligned to RS4 specs but with an extra -0.3 camber in the front and OEM RS4 rear sway which is 4mm thicker than the stock sway on cars with sport suspension. My A4 is very compliant over bumps and rough pavement and when pushed in the corners, it's very neutral and responsive with minimal body roll and sharper turn-in.

thanks!

your comment makes me feel much better about this car.

i can't wait for my coils to come in. i will also purchase an rs4 swaybar, but i'll give myself a few months, just so i can really get a feel for how much of a difference it makes.

[NorcalPB]

I have the sport suspension and driving my friends 2008 wrx minivan made my car feel like crap handling wise.

[p1nk50ck]

I have the sport suspension and driving my friends 2008 wrx minivan made my car feel like crap handling wise.

wrx wagon/5 door?

[Wimbledon]

The B7 is a very competent handling car, near or at the top of its class. As far as AWD sedans go, a Subaru Legacy GT however has the capability to out-handle the A4.

You just have to remember that the A4 is a heavy sedan, not a lightweight sports car.

That said, some suspension upgrades can really make a positive difference.

[pinkslip]

The new guy's .02: (BTW, Hi everyone!)

This is all relative. My Miata (as "girly" and underpowered as it may be) is an incredibly well balanced and manuverable car. I would not expect an A4 or even an S4 to handle as well. The Miata has no weight, no wheel base, and a lower center of gravity than a skateboard.

But people don't buy A4's for the same kind of driving experience one would get from a Miata. This is why- I think- so many of us compare tha Audi to a Beemer.

Stock-for-stock a Quattro A4 won't hang with a 3 Series. A4's understeer quite a bit and don't make the same power to weight a similar BMW does.

But... I have a dream!

My current mission is to find a used B7 A4 quattro manual (I've got a lead on an S-Line) and get the Stasis power kit, differential, and possibly other goodies like coil overs. The power would pull on a 335i and the differential would allow the driver to create slight oversteer when desired (like RWD), while mainaining the advantages of Quattro in other circumstances.

Oh yeah, and all that will still cost less than buying a similarly equipped used 335i.

Remember: While an Audi owner can easily add power, and even rear drive bias, a BMW owner can't add Quattro.

[Wimbledon]

Stock-for-stock a Quattro A4 won't hang with a 3 Series. A4's understeer quite a bit and don't make the same power to weight a similar BMW does.

When comparing comparable models (like 325i vs. 2.0T), the B7 A4 will hang with the E90 3. This is coming from someone who has actually driven the cars (not to say you haven't, but my opinion is based on experience).

[muffinman]

thanks!

your comment makes me feel much better about this car.

i can't wait for my coils to come in. i will also purchase an rs4 swaybar, but i'll give myself a few months, just so i can really get a feel for how much of a difference it makes.

you'll love the stasis ss coils. if you're looking for go-kart handling, the tracksports/ohlins may have been a better choice but given the price point for a set of street sports, there's no better balance between handling / ride comfort.

[NorcalPB]

wrx wagon/5 door?

Ya, he insists its a hatchback

[p1nk50ck]

Ya, he insists its a hatchback

lolz

[Glassnpowder98]

thanks!

your comment makes me feel much better about this car.

i can't wait for my coils to come in. i will also purchase an rs4 swaybar, but i'll give myself a few months, just so i can really get a feel for how much of a difference it makes.

You should give it about a week... The coilovers are definitely going to make your car handle a lot better making the car more stiff and giving you less body roll. But, without that upgraded rear sway you are still going to have some of that dreaded understeer.