Question to all Vancouver AZ-ers

[PROXUS]

For long time now.. I have an idea about relocating from US to other country. I have few options since my father live in Sydney, Australia, my sister in Oxford, England and my brother in Beijing, China.... but I would rather stay on this continent and since my wife is Canadian, ....Vancouver caught my attention.

Everyone who was there visiting, like it very much, but I want first hand opinions from people actually living in Vancouver.


My questions are generally related to:
1. cost of living (accommodation / phone / internet / food / gas prices / insurance)
2. average salaries & job accessibility (multimedia / internet / marketing industry)
3. quality of living (people / dining / activities)
4. real estate (what I should know / rent vs. buy)
5. weather


Any of you live in Yaletown? Can you give me some first-hand info about this area?
Any help is appreciated ;)

[[email protected]]

1) Cost of living is above average. Renting downtown or in Yaletown for a nice one bedroom apartment starts at ~$1300. Phone and internet are reasonable, the food which is some of the best in the world goes from super cheap to mega $$$ and all depends on your budget and tastes for that day. Gas is $1.05 a liter right now and auto insurance depends on your driving record and it is a monopoly controlled by the gov't

2) Job market is OK and hard to say what the average rate it. There is a lot of talent here and the fight for openings is tough so that tends to drive the salaries down a bit. If you have a niche talent then you can ask for more money.

3) Excellent. If you love food then Vancouver had almost every type of ethnic food you can get. People are very laid back, lots of art galleries, live music at various coffee shops and pubs around town. If you like outdoor activities you can do just about anything you want within a 3 hour drive from the city center

4) Market prices are falling right now and expects to drop for the next 12 months. Good time to buy if you can afford to. I'm getting funds together now to make a bunch of purchases in the new year.

5) Never really gets too cold or too hot here. Rains more often than not. When the sun comes out and regardless of the month people will be biking, kayaking, running, etc. Winter/Spring is wet, Smmer is beautiful and what everyone sees in the magazines and Fall is by far the most beautiful time here with all of the trees changing colours.

Yaletown?? One of the most expensive and trendiest areas to live in right now. Looked at a 850sqft loft and it was going for $425,000. Lots of high end restaurants and shopping boutiques and a 20 minute walk to the city center.

[Audi-ence]

^^^^Shhhhhh.............Vancouver is bad.....very bad.

[[email protected]]

No.. you mean Richmond is BAD --->--->--->

[PROXUS]

is there any neighborhood in close proximity that you can recommend, with good access to public transportation, that I could take in consideration?

I don't necessary need to be in downtown Vancouver is I can find good deal in short proximity. My idea was to rent in downtown until I find some property I can buy.

[andyisgood]

oh i dont think u you would want to rent/buy any real estate in downtown area since it's just too expensive down there.... unless u are rich and have so much spare $$ in your hands... i dont think spending a million dollars on an apartment is worth the money

[[email protected]]

is there any neighborhood in close proximity that you can recommend, with good access to public transportation, that I could take in consideration?

I don't necessary need to be in downtown Vancouver is I can find good deal in short proximity. My idea was to rent in downtown until I find some property I can buy.

If you don't have to live downtown then there is more affordable housing just on outside of the city bubble. Each of these subareas has their own feel and community as well.

If you head out about 30 minutes away to Burnaby price go down even more.

oh i dont think u you would want to rent/buy any real estate in downtown area since it's just too expensive down there.... unless u are rich and have so much spare $$ in your hands... i dont think spending a million dollars on an apartment is worth the money

I don't know where you get that figure from as my friends just picked up a 950sqft sub-penthouse on the 23rd floor in a 4 year old building in downtown for $485,000.

[Audi-ence]

No.. you mean Richmond is BAD --->--->--->

.....no, I meant we should stop bragging about how good we have it here so that we can have it to ourselves. It's because of all the "new" people that have come to our city in the last 20 years that no one can afford to OWN a home here. Thanks for making my point for me "$485,000.00 for 950 sq.ft." Do you really think this is a good deal!? Downtown or not it's a big IMO.

[Clown4]

I don't recommend you to move here,
'cause we have dinosaurs all over the place,
and they'd stump on our beautiful audi's.

all silliness aside,
our man winston's in depth explanation is pretty much the exact deal.

PROXUS,
wish you all the best man.
And when you're finally here,
we'll have meets up to whistler LOL
oh and, vancouver's the host of 2010 Winter Olympic Games.

ps. I know it's sad to see the pricing of the houses, and people who have lived
long before the "new" people, are forced to move farther away from the city
'cause of the sky rocketed pricings.
"New" people(I'm one of them as well) have somehow lowered the living quality...
ie. richmond = china town. AND some older "new" people... especially
females(i'm not a sexist)... they can't drive... had quite a few of 'em tried
to cut into my lane having me right next to them...
and they didn't even notice i was right there...
BUT, as for the government,
they've received so much money from the "new" comers...

i think it's just a give and take situation...

but OVERALL, vancouver's beautiful :)
for pure living... I'd choose vancouver over LA.
Crime rate's lower, people are more friendly, our seasons are more distinctive,
part of our city doesn't have people that are full of plastic surgeries.
AND, vancouver canucks just beat anaheim cucks on halloween night :)

[[email protected]]

.....no, I meant we should stop bragging about how good we have it here so that we can have it to ourselves. It's because of all the "new" people that have come to our city in the last 20 years that no one can afford to OWN a home here. Thanks for making my point for me "$485,000.00 for 950 sq.ft." Do you really think this is a good deal!? Downtown or not it's a big IMO.

The new people will come whether we like it or not so there is no point in fighting it.

The cost of housing in downtown Vancouver will always go up... it is pure supply and demand. I almost compare it to Manhattan 20-30 years ago. It is a city surrounded by water so you can only build up, or in our case up or to the East.

Since the city is very strict about the skyline it only allows buildings to be a certain height in certain areas. For example I purchased a couple of condos on the outskirts of Chinatown (which is East of downtown). My realtor told me the view I have will be there for a while as the 3 blocks of Chinatown is designated as a heritage zone, so no building in that area can be torn down and if it is then the new building can not be more than 3 stories tall. With bylaws like this you can see how it is hard to increase the amount of housing in certain areas.

Anyway... people will always live in downtown Vancouver. Is $485,000 a good deal for 950sqft? Right now it is. Will the prices drop? It will a little bit then people will see the attractive prices and people will start buying up places and we start all over again. Will we see prices like 4 years ago? Never. The market will never let the prices drop that far.

I know that it is sad that my 2 kid nephews will never be able to buy a apartment downtown or a house in Vancouver when they reach their 20s unless they have a job that pays at least 6 figures to start.

[Louis J.]

I think Winston has provided good input so my comments are over and above his...

1) My parents visited from CA a month ago and couldn't get over the price of groceries and what I pay for rent. It seems normal to us but food is very expensive, gas is the most expensive in North America and real estate is well beyond the reach of the average salary. Unlike in the US, most people work to pay the mortgage and have little left to play.

2) I'm not sure that the job market has strength anywhere in North America right now...most of the world for that matter. That said, Multimedia and internet are big plays in Vancouver, however, marketing and advertising are very competitive due to the fact that there are few head offices in Vancouver and too many qualified people.

3) Very active people due to natural playground...Vancouver is surrounded by mountains and water and there's lots to do outdoors. People are very polite, open minded and respectful but not very warm. People who move to Vancouver often complain that people are clicky and it's hard to make friends. It may be hard for those of us who grew up here to see that but this is what I've heard from a number of people who have moved here as adults.

4) Three years ago I decided to stay completely out of the market and rent. Real estate, much like the economy, typically runs about a year behind the US. Inventories have started building and prices have started dropping but we have a long way to go. I personally believe 2009 will be a very tough year for our economy and real estate will start dropping more precipitously. I believe we'll see a 20-30% price correction in most markets over the next few years, though it will be interesting to see what impact the 2010 Olympics has on real estate. Bottom line: don't buy...rent.

5) Bring a big umbrella. During the winter months, days are gray and short. Sun rises after 8AM and it's pitch black by 3PM in the dead of winter...it can be depressing. Summer is the complete opposite...sunny and very long days. The sun rises at 4:30 and sunset is as late as 10PM in the middle of summer. Because everyone is subjected to our cold, dark and wet winters, by the time summer rolls around, everyone is outside taking in the sun as much as they can. People truly enjoy the city because there's a sense of scarcity...they know the cycle will begin again soon enough. I notice a big difference from the attitude of people in places where it's always sunny and warm.

I lived in Yaletown for four years and moved a year ago to South Granville (just on the other side of the Granville bridge). All I can say is: stay away from Yaletown!!!! It's overpriced, it's loud (I was an insomniac while I lived there) and it's over-populated with Paris Hilton wannabes looking for a sugar daddy and drug dealers. This is just my opinion and observation after living and working (still do) there...I'm sure there are others who think it's a great place but I'm not the only one who moved away after getting their fill of Yaletown. You may want to rent a place temporarily and look for an area that suits you before you commit to a permanent place; there are lots of great neighborhoods.

Best of luck with your decision.

[Quattroownsyou]

Real estate prices will never drop in Vancouver...you're all dreaming. None of you can afford a house, so don't worry about the price.

No offense to anyone written, implied or otherwise.


Oh..yeah, i've got two houses for sale in Langley for over 600k...if anyone is interesed PM. I can also do a special discount for cash rich immigrants.

[Clown4]

Real estate prices will never drop in Vancouver...you're all dreaming. None of you can afford a house, so don't worry about the price.

No offense to anyone written, implied or otherwise.


Oh..yeah, i've got two houses for sale in Langley for over 600k...if anyone is interesed PM. I can also do a special discount for cash rich immigrants.

600k in Langley, those two must be mansions or something.
600k, can't get a big house in richmond, vancouver, and the sort.

Good lookin' out on the sell man!
I've always wanted to move to abbotsford or langley, but that's too far away from my school.

and... i do think the real estates have dropped during the past few months though...
it was the best to sell in the past summer or around the past may...
My fam's selling ours... the market's shitty now...
but I'm glad there will be another family coming over to check out the house tomorrow :)

good luck to all the AZers that are selling their houses :)

[gpxluke]

I am wondering if we have special price on RNS-E package once u move in LOL

Anyways...yeah price of real estate has been staying at the peak for years...heard it's going down a bit, but who knows if it will go bak up again

[qwks4]

$485,000.00 for 950 sq.ft." Do you really think this is a good deal!? Downtown or not it's a big IMO.

That's the same as Downtown Toronto - I'm a Realtor.

Vancouver has just been undervalued because it was a relatively sleepy city, but now it's stepping onto the world stage and catching up with the other cities.

I've loved visiting Vancouver and suprisingly, I've caught great weather most of the time. I'd have to experience a winter though. I'm not sure I could handle tons of drizzle/rain.

[Louis J.]

You guys are kidding right? A few weeks ago Vancouver real estate was rated the sixth most overvalued market in the world by Forbes. My fiance is a realtor and a mortgage broker and I've been tracking the market myself very closely for at least the past five years. I got out three years ago. The buble burst earlier this year and those who want to sell right now have to slash their prices but this is only the beginning and there's more to come. Some people thought I was nuts three years ago for getting out and now those guys are feeling the pain while I wait patiently for the bargains..but hey, if you think it's a good buy right now, go nuts.

[qwks4]

^^^ I didn't say good buy. But I do believe it is becoming a world class city. There will always be strong demand due to immigration and the aging population. Yes, the past few years have seen crazy inflation, but in the long run I believe that real estate in good areas of the city will do well.

Buying houses for most people isn't like daytrading stocks. They're usually in it for at least a 5-7 year plan.

[Louis J.]

^^^ I didn't say good buy. But I do believe it is becoming a world class city. There will always be strong demand due to immigration and the aging population. Yes, the past few years have seen crazy inflation, but in the long run I believe that real estate in good areas of the city will do well.

Buying houses for most people isn't like daytrading stocks. They're usually in it for at least a 5-7 year plan.

World class? Without a doubt and I agree that demand will always be strong here...relatively speaking. The world just tripped on a financial rabbit hole and nobody knows how long it's going to take to find out how deep it is and how painful the fall is going to be. The US is about 12 months ahead of Canada on major economic cycles and they're already feeling the pain much more than what we can relate to. World class or not, mark my words, we'll see at least a 20% haircut over 2007 prices before 2010.

As for your buying houses not being like daytrading, I guess it depends on your point of reference. When people start getting into bidding wars and enter into transactions without even the most basic of subjects like an inspection after paying $100k over asking on a $1MM home for fear of "missing out" and when people get into the business of flipping condos for a living, I see the same level of mania that I saw in 99/00 when cabbies where dispensing "investment" advice on internet stocks.

Just one fool's $0.02.

[QuattroRocket]

Well you have gotten pretty good advice already Proxus. If you are considering Canada then the options are limited in terms of urban, developed cities. If you seek a more rural or smaller urban center then there is more to choose from.

Vancouver is frequently awarded world class notoriety and for good reason. We have a fabulous quality of life here. Lets face it there are few locations in the world that you can scuba dive in the morning in world class waters, golf in the afternoon and be skiiing in the evening all without leaving the city. But this comes at a price, a neighbor is selling a 900 square foot 2 bedroom condo in my little development, just a bridge away from downtown and a block from the newly developing Olympic village for $449,000. Prices have peaked here for the time being and over the next 6-18 months you will likely see some price reductions in most areas. Regardless you are buying in a world class costal city so expect to pay a premium. Rentals are tough to come by from what I hear as well. Apparently there are waiting lists all over for apartments as the city is full up these days, likely with many trades people building Olympic events.

Our cost of living is also above average as McHammered suggested. Groceries, gas and most other things are more expensive here than most of Canada. But the price is worth it if you ask me, once you adapt to the frequent rainy grey days then the city becomes truely home. The food is outstanding, there are sooo many fabulous restaurants to dine at, lots of shopping, as well as a TON of outdoors activities to participate in all year round. The downside, other than the price of living, the night life is a little questionable compared to a lot of other North American cities, but being married that might not be a problem.

Realistically forget living downtown. I say this after living there myself for a lot of years. My reasoning is simple, you pay a premium to live there as its limited space. You get less space than you would get even a bridge away like where I live, 1 bedroom apartments sell for $300,000 and have 540 square feet to them you have to go outside to change your mind they are so tiny. When single its nice to stumble home at night from the bars but when you arent living that life a $5 cab ride is all it takes to get to downtown and being out of the noise and chaos is nice.

I dont think you would regret your decision to live here. Hit me up on MSN if you want to chat further, I can help with suggesting where to look for houses/rentals and such if you let me know what your budget is like. I have been in Vancouver for 33 of my 35 years so I know it pretty well. [email protected]

[MacDaddy]

insurance is expensive as hell ($2-3K a year depending on car/discount)
rent is pricey, houses even worse, but its dropping and hopefully after the Olympics it will be even cheaper, but there may not be any jobs left after that.

Traffic sucks ass, and parking costs a fortune, get a place near the skytrain if your going to work in vancouver, if you live on the other side of the fraser river, your going to have to drive over a bridge, expect 1.5 hour comutes each way with good traffic and 2 hours to impossible in the event of high traffic or an accident.

as far as jobs, check out craigslist and higher bracket to get a feel for the jobs here, monster sucks.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/
http://www.higherbracket.ca/executiv...FQNbxwodB3HLPA
heres another site to look at, but i've never tried it:
http://regionalhelpwanted.com/vancouver%2Djobs/

IMO, you need to make at least $100K+ to live here comfortably.

[s2000_s4_525]

Real estate prices will never drop in Vancouver...you're all dreaming. None of you can afford a house, so don't worry about the price.

No offense to anyone written, implied or otherwise.


Oh..yeah, i've got two houses for sale in Langley for over 600k...if anyone is interesed PM. I can also do a special discount for cash rich immigrants.

Agreed Vancouver is always going to be a hot market, especially west end. Bottom line If you have money this is the time to buy the market will always rise in the next 2-5 years.

[PROXUS]

Thanks for all hints. I plan to visit Vancouver in 4~7 months (after my trip to Europe) to see everything with my own eyes. Maybe I will schedule few interviews to see how the job market is. I would guess, that it'll rise before 2010 Olympics. Specially marketing & advertising related jobs.

As far as my property needs...I want to rent for a few months ~ year, to get the feeling of the housing market and look for a good deals. I'm not too stubborn with downtown location but I would be happy to find something close to my future work, something with the view. The few rentals I've seen were nice/contemporary 850~950 sq.ft. with the view for ~$1400 CAD. Coming from Chicago, I think its not bad because any place in downtown Chicago is $1800 USD and up.

My wife worked for new construction luxury homes developer for over 10 years so this experience should help a little. But your first-hand experience is very valuable.

I don't know anyone in Vancouver so it is like starting again from the scratch :D new people, new friends, new job.... but even that my wife is concerning moving to Toronto, .....Vancouver is my first choice because of location, views and proximity to Whistler :D
I'm tired of long trips to Aspen, Vail or Breck, every year. I need to use my snowboard a little bit more often :D

Can you tell me what average salary is (ballpark figures is fine)? How big are the taxes? I have seen offers for positions in my field (graphic/web design/media/advertising) in $50K~$70K range and up. but not sure if this common?

[QuattroRocket]

Well hold on to your hat but the top tax bracket is 43.7% and thats at about $120,000. We do pay a lot of tax but we get lots of included programs that the US doesnt offer, healthcare being #1.

Dont worry about new friends we are happy to tease and ridicule you like your current friends

There is a chance that the housing market will recover before 2010 but dont hold your hopes up I think it will take a year post Olympics to recover to where we were at 6 months ago. Good for new buyers though !

As far as rentals go a downtown condo of 600 sq. ft. will run ya $1400 but if you move away from the downtown core 10-15 minutes you will see an improvement.

There are lots of community clubs and sports organizations so getting hooked in and meeting new people shouldn't be too tough for ya. There are a few good Audi/VW guys around here too.

Whistler is 1 1/2 hours away and the road will be completed by the Olympics and SIGNIFICANTLY improved.

And as far salaries it depends on what you are after. We are hiring now (Insurance/Investment company) and for mid level sales and marketing positions we are paying $40,000 - $55,000. It has been quite an employees market until recently but with current conditions there is a noticeable switch as there are less jobs out there and people cant flip from job to job so easily.

[MacDaddy]

if you don't know anyone here, schedule your trip to Vancouver to coincide with one of the "one a week Vancouver coffee" meets.

meet some people, go for a cruise, get a feel for things.

[MacDaddy]

oh yeah, and drink coffee!