Tiptronic S Mode Question

[ChronicTeutonic]

Any of you tip owners notice a different throttle response when the trans is set to S mode? It seems to me that throttle by wire resolution is a bit more aggressive. Justincredible have you done any tests on this (I read your chip thread earlier.)

I know shifts with a light foot happen at 3,000 rpm in "S" mode vs approximately 2,000 rpm in "D".

[grimlock]

That's why it's called "Sport" mode . In my experience, if you chip your car it's almost impossible to drive in just normal D mode. The shift points are still programmed towards the stock ECU program. 'S' mode does alleviate this somewhat, although Tiptronic mode is still the best in terms of performance IMO.

[Beelzeebub]

absolutely. The S mode delays early shifting to the next gear (high or low) therefore making it a more aggressive setting. honestly, when i want an aggressive setting, i just put it in S mode rarely in tiptronic mode.

[Justincredible]

I have tested this. I don't have all the pieces of the puzzle quite figgured out for the Tips. (this is why with the chips I used only 6 speed cars)

In S mode the throttle and the timing seem ONCE AGAIN Seem to be different. S mode in other cars effects the tune as a hole. I have read this about the newer Audis and BMW with the M button on the M5. Press the M button on the M5 and the entire suspension, exhaust, transmission, and tune are more aggressive. So I have been testing to see what All is effected on our cars. But as you can imagine there are so many things to check

So what I found is S mode is more aggressive in the trans shifting obviously for sure. I did do a check on the throttle in S mode and it is different. But not by much. Very small difference. It seems the difference is in the timing or some Tq limitation lift this makes the car more aggressive. Once again this is subtle for sure. But this is what I have noticed. Here is a example I stock have no correction for timing on 94oct. Put the car into S mode and the corrections go up slightly maybe to 1 or 2. This could be due to a number of factors tho. Thus the not 100% sure we can tell a difference but to say it is from the timing or the small variance in the pedal or some Tq limitation I couldn't say for sure.

I did find out the S mode shifts faster then tip mode. This kinda sucks for me as I drive in tip mode 98% of the time.

I changed my Trans fluid a few months back. I put in RED line trans fluid (this is not recommended but my car is running fine) because when I went to change my trans filter I thought I would just go to the dealer and get the trans fluid from them obviously So I would have the correct trans fluid....OM well after I saw it was 50$ a quart....that's right folks 50$ a quart and you need 9-10 quarts..do the math. I just decided I would take a chance (well I actually had the car down for 2 weeks while I found the best replacement fluid) So any way after I put in the Red line fluid I found that the thinner fluid (but still has better anti ware properties and is more heat stable then the stock fluid) actually helped the trans shift faster and harder. I mean you could tell for sure

Ok so now I'M just babbling on for no reason. so yes there dose seem to be a more aggressive throttle responce but the Pedal to throttle angle is still very close to stock. But still there is a difference in S mode

[iamproph]

S mode in my car is a huge change over normal D driving mode. You can easily tell, because if you are driving in D and switch it over to Tiptronic by moving the shifter to the right, you can see what gear you are in. For example, I was driving at 26-28 mph in D, switched it over to TIP mode and it had me in 4th gear. Now when driving in S, I used my paddle shifters which allow you to still manually change gear, and just dropped it down a gear, brought me into 2nd gear, meaning it was rolling in 3rd gear in S and 4th in D. I really only drive in TIP now that I have messed around with it, really gives you a lot of flexibility, plus the ability to downshift and slow your car to save your brakes. Only issue I have when in S is that sometimes , say second gear at this one corner I go around, I am not trying to aggressively accelerate, but in 2nd coming around the corner at around 20, it sticks in 2nd until about 5k, when I really just want it to shift around 3500. That is why I just drive in TIP the whole time now.

[guglielmo]

Turn off the traction control as well.

[mfresh2k2]

JUSTINCREDIBLE, i have an 05.5 S4 with tip. so what you are stating is that better fluid (redline) will make my trans perform faster shifts? this is something i think we could all benefit from.

[Justincredible]

JUSTINCREDIBLE, i have an 05.5 S4 with tip. so what you are stating is that better fluid (redline) will make my trans perform faster shifts? this is something i think we could all benefit from.

I noticed that the car had a marked improvement in shifting. I would say some of that could have been from the filter. But the redline fluid is thinner than the stock fluid. The stock fluid is quite robust as it is meant to be a never change fluid.

I can say I don't know any thing about fluid dynamics. But the RED line guys sited that there fluid has the same compression properties as the stock fluid. They also talk about there added anti ware and heat resistance along with its high viscosity tolerance (I think I got that right Im repeating what they said that sold me on it)

In the end the fluid seems to be able to flow faster this IMO is what helps the car shift faster and harder and the amount of fluid and the speed of the fluid transfer is what effects the trans shift time

I would not recommend changing it if you still have a warranty. The dealership I go to for warranty work definitely said that voided the trans warranty I have. Also if you do change it you probably need to change it every 20k Vs. the stock never
Also I don't think there are going to be any long term issues but I can't say if this is providing the proper lube and protection for the trans or not

In the end I feel that I got good results from it and I saved 400$ over putting in the stock fluid

[ALWAYS4UDI]

^^^ tranny filter? i've been told tip trannies are "lifetime non-serviceable"?

i did think that was a bit odd. i was told this while trying to have a tranny flush performed.

[Justincredible]

They are supposed to be life time non service.

But I still wasn't going to let my car go with out at least looking at the fluid. Bottom line the fluid looked almost black. The original color is supposed to be yellowish. For me I'm glad I changed it. If you are going to change it and plan on using stock OEM fluid. Be prepared to spend almost 500$

[Cargo8]

So is shifting quicker in S than in Tiptronic manual mode? Like even if you take manual control while the shifter is in S, it will shift faster than if you are in manual mode (tiptronic)?

[turbo4s]

when I go to the track I keep it in S mode. shifts very quick. I like it.

[dannyj777]

S mode creates a wormhole to the next dimension....just like VTEC.
I don't know what it does, but it's fun and hell.

[Beelzeebub]

so if in tip mode, when coming to a dead stop, will the transmission automatically shift down to 1st gear or will it stay in the last gear it was prior to stopping and stall?

[FastB7S4]

so if in tip mode, when coming to a dead stop, will the transmission automatically shift down to 1st gear or will it stay in the last gear it was prior to stopping and stall?

It will automatically shfit down to 1st.

[Beelzeebub]

It will automatically shfit down to 1st.

oks.

[wkornfeld]

You guys do realize that S-Mode in a TIP S4 has a learning curve right. So, if you drive around like a normal person in s-mode, it will drive just like in D. If you put it in to S and jump it at a light it will learn your driving curve. When we first got the car S-Mode was no different because it hadn't been 'taught' yet. I've driven around with it enough that it wont even shift until 4-5k because that's how I drive when I put it in S.

[FastB7S4]

You guys do realize that S-Mode in a TIP S4 has a learning curve right.

How do you go about re-teaching it if you are not the original owner?

[40valve]

How do you go about re-teaching it if you are not the original owner?

It should be in a constant learning mode, so to speak. It's always watching how you are driving and adjusts accordingly. So, if you driving very conservatively through the week and on the weekend you want to beat on it, at first it will not respond as good as you want it to until it learns what you are trying to do. That's were manual mode come in play ... use it. What fun is it to let the car do everything for you?

[Tiny2000]

Can't you do a throttle body reset instead of having it relearn all the time?

I can't stand driving in S-mode. The throttle is super touchy and sensitive and the car ends up driving really jerky. Especially when you want to coast, you can't just take your foot off the pedal, you actually have to slowly back it off. And it nevers shifts soon enough for me! I end up just tapping the paddle shifter to get an upshift when i want it.

Other than that, I love it (can't you tell? :)

[ChronicTeutonic]

Especially when you want to coast, you can't just take your foot off the pedal, you actually have to slowly back it off.

I think you are experiencing the torque converter lock up. The converter lockup causes the car to feel like a manual since both sides of the converter are locked together. This should be noticeable in both "S" and "Tip" mode especially in 1st-4th gears. If you quickly let your foot off in a manual car it will feel the same.

I personally don't have an issue with this since I came from driving manual cars and see it as a performance feature of the transmission.

[gjc]

You guys do realize that S-Mode in a TIP S4 has a learning curve right. So, if you drive around like a normal person in s-mode, it will drive just like in D. If you put it in to S and jump it at a light it will learn your driving curve. When we first got the car S-Mode was no different because it hadn't been 'taught' yet. I've driven around with it enough that it wont even shift until 4-5k because that's how I drive when I put it in S.

Is this true? I've never heard of such....not disputing just would like more info is this is really a function of the "S" mode.

[Justincredible]

Yes that is very true.

Im trying to find out the cycles and when they start and stop adapting if any. But here is the low down

All 3 types of driving have there own base settings. From there the car will start a loop calculation Or (learning tally of your pedal position and rpm) this happens in both D & S Tip mode is effected as well but I will explain that later.

S mode

This setting already has a more aggressive shift strategy set up. You by driving just help tell it how much more aggressive you want it. If you were to drive around in S all the time it will only get more aggressive IF YOUR driving (pedal Vs. RPM position) lets the computer know it needs to hold the gear longer or down shift sooner. Even if you drive like a grandmother the S setting will not drop below a set point. I.E. this means there are set RPM shift points for shifting up and set shift points for down shifting. So it is possible to get it to be more aggressive and then by driving less aggressive the car may relearn the shift strategy but it will only back this off to a set point. So infinite driving in S mode will never water it down to what standard D mode is set at

D mode

Is the standard setting and has learning as well. But just as the S mode will not drop past a set point for aggressive shift points and such. The D mode will not exceed a set point for shift and down shift.


Dose anyone here live in a area where they can safely make some full throttle runs from first to 4th three or 4 times in a row? I think I found something out but I need someone to test it against what I did.

[turbo4s]

Yeah I do 1-4 every day. Getting onto the highway.

[Justincredible]

Yeah I do 1-4 every day. Getting onto the highway.

LOL AWESOME I know on ramps are the full throttle play grounds for me.

Ok do this if you can.

Run the car in tip mode from a stop Full throttle (but don't shift let the MAX rpm shift the car for you) by default the car will up shift on its own. If you have a Vag com this would be easier for you to see. But let me know what RPM you up shift at. should be around 64-6500 RPM

Then put it in S mode and do that same thing 3 times But just keep it in S mode and don't touch it. Just S mode and from a stop take it all the way threw the shift into 4th. Let me know if the shift RPM goes up to say 68-6900 RPM.

The reason I ask is I don't remember my car doing this before I got a chip in my car. Now in S mode it almost shifts a 7K I love it.

So I reset my car. And did what I just asked you to do. I put it in tip and go from a stop all out threw the 4th gear shift. letting the MAX RPM up shift the car I don't shift it at all. The car shifts at 64-6500 RPM

The I put the car in S mode. Do the same thing. The first time the car will up shift at 6500. Then the second time 67-6800 RPM The vag com reads lime 6840 If I remember correctly.

NOW for the interesting thing. After you have done this in S mode Go back to tip mode and now your car should be up shifting at the MAX of 6800 RPM.

Or that is what I have seen. I would love to know if we stumbled on something here.

Thanks let us know. Enjoy your self.....but not too much

[tkfolio]

hey all,
I aplogize in advance for nesting a new question in, didn't really want to start a new thread for this...
My wife has 2006 A4 2.0T tiptronic, and I don't drive it too often (still happy with my 2001 GTI :), but recently noticed, while upshifting in S mode, it doesn't go passed 4th gear. It just stays there with RPM rising. I do realize we're talking about sport mode with aggressive acceleration and all, but it doesn't seem to upshift even at like 60mph. Of course, Audi says it's fine and it operates up to specs, and it supposed to do this, and it would upshift further only if you drive at highway speeds, etc. Suffice to say wife doesn't notice anything as she's usually in lame D mode. So can anybody dissolve my fears, or this is something i should be worried about. For some reason I remember driving it in S mode in the past, and it worked fine with upshifting up to 6th, just way more agile as D.

TIA

[ChronicTeutonic]

the answer to your question depends on which trans your A4 has. We are talking about the 09L trans on this thread.

[FastB7S4]

My wife has 2006 A4 2.0T tiptronic, and I don't drive it too often (still happy with my 2001 GTI :), but recently noticed, while upshifting in S mode, it doesn't go passed 4th gear. It just stays there with RPM rising. I do realize we're talking about sport mode with aggressive acceleration and all, but it doesn't seem to upshift even at like 60mph.

Is the A4 Tip a 6AT or is it a 5AT? I noticed the same thing yesterday when I was playing around in S mode except it doesn't upshift to 6th gear. It'll stay in 5th gear when I'm just cruising and keep the rpm's up. I think this is normal. Since your in the more aggressive S mode, it probably stays in the lower gear to keep the rpm's up to stay in the higher power range.

[mfresh2k2]

Is the A4 Tip a 6AT or is it a 5AT? I noticed the same thing yesterday when I was playing around in S mode except it doesn't upshift to 6th gear. It'll stay in 5th gear when I'm just cruising and keep the rpm's up. I think this is normal. Since your in the more aggressive S mode, it probably stays in the lower gear to keep the rpm's up to stay in the higher power range.

This is true, if you are on the hwy and you have paddle shifters, you can up-shift it to get a lil better mileage. Depending on how much pedal pressure you give it, it will either stay in 6th or shift bk down to 5th.

[trocade]

I did not see anyone mention it... but S mode seems to limit the gearbox to 5 gears only. :)

[tkfolio]

Is the A4 Tip a 6AT or is it a 5AT? I noticed the same thing yesterday when I was playing around in S mode except it doesn't upshift to 6th gear. It'll stay in 5th gear when I'm just cruising and keep the rpm's up. I think this is normal. Since your in the more aggressive S mode, it probably stays in the lower gear to keep the rpm's up to stay in the higher power range.

it's 6AT, and it looks like i need to do a bit more road testing before getting back to you. But i still don't think 4th gear at 60mph is normal.

[turbo4s]

everyone has to remember that when in S-mode the car is going to hold A gear for as long as possible to get the most out of it. Especially in an S4 it was ment for spirited driving or for some track use. If your on the highway and you are saying that you only get 5 gears out of the S-mode you are wrong. If you take the car up to 75-80 it will go into 6th. or if your doing 65mph and its still in 5th gear and you put the criuse control on it will shift into 6th gear (its smart). I feel the best is when you use the paddles with S-mode. some times the S-mode holds a gear to long and you want to upshift well then i just tap the paddle. Have to use the tranny to its full advantage.

[Cargo8]

Can someone please confirm or deny:

Faster if S mode, (even while shifting manually), than when shifting totally manually in Tiptronic Mode?

[Justincredible]

Can someone please confirm or deny:

Faster if S mode, (even while shifting manually), than when shifting totally manually in Tiptronic Mode?

I don't know how exact this is but I did that test at the track last week and on the street.

S MODE made for the fastest 1/4 time and MHP

Tip MODE had Less MPH and trap Speed TILL the tip mode seemed to adapt to the S mode settings

TIP mode Part throttle gave much firmer shifts then all the rest. But as I said. S mode gave me 200-400 more rpm then Tip mode. Till it seemed to adapt

[Beelzeebub]

is it possible to run the car on tip mode in a gear to redline without it shifting up by itself?

edit: spelling

[Justincredible]

All the other ZF transmissions do this so I would think this is possible. On my
A6 you needed to change the adaption in the TCU. I have messed around with the adaption setting and got nothing Yet. Vag com don't have any in put on this so it is trial and error. But it still is unknown if there is a setting that will allow this.

[abe]

I was going to start a new thread but this seems to address the topic at hand.

For the purposes of this post, let's agree on the following definitions:

Shift Speed: The time it takes to go from one gear to the next - example: I wish my car would shift faster, it is sluggish going from one gear to the next.
Shift Point: The RPM at which the car, or user, decides to shift - example The shift points are too low in 'D' mode, the tranny is in 6th gear by 40 MPH!

In my opinion and based on observation, the shift speed just doesn't seem to change, no matter if you're in D, or S, or Manual Mode.

The shift points, however, DO change depending on those modes, which is appropriate.

I'm a bit disappointed that the car doesn't shift faster when I'm in S Mode, or particularly Manual Mode. SMG has the ability to speed shifts up, but yet this car doesn't change, not even in sport mode? That is quite lacking, in my opinion. When I pull on a paddle I want that car to slam it into the gear I'm looking for. If I'm in 'D' mode then sluggish shifts are fine, of course.

I know you can "chip" a transmission for faster shifts, which, if the propaganda is right is actually better for the transmission, but I'm sure that would void the warranty. Oh well. Maybe after it's out of warranty.

Thoughts?

[mad70sx]

I can't stand driving in S-mode. The throttle is super touchy and sensitive and the car ends up driving really jerky. Especially when you want to coast, you can't just take your foot off the pedal, you actually have to slowly back it off.

I feel the same way. I feel in S mode the throttle is waaaaay too sensitive and gives the car a jerky ride. I'm in Tip mode 90% of the time. Only time I use D is on my morning commute when I have a cup of joe in my hand. Rarely use S mode. I feel you can get just as much performance out of Tip mode as in S mode,but are in control of the shift points while in Tip mode.

is it possible to run the car on tip mode in a gear to redline without it shifting up by itself?

I don't think so. Seems the trans will protect itself. In Tip mode it will shift itself around 6500 rpm,just before redline,if you do not shift it yourself.(I tried it) It will also downshift but it does so at a low rpm. It's much more fun to downshift it yourself and feel a little engine braking. Also it will not let you downshift above a certain rpm,again to protect the trans I assume.

[AaGro]

Kind of an old thread getting resurrected, but...
One thing I have noticed about the tip is for freeway speed gear drop-downs using a combination of S-mode/paddles produces faster roll-ons.
For example: cruising at 65 (ok 75 ) going to WOT in D will drop to 5th (sometimes 4th depending on how quickly the go pedal is pushed), doing the same in S will almost always get 4th, and blipping the down-shift paddle while simultaneously moving to WOT (in S mode) gets third and the best overall acceleration.
For me, I am D in commute and S+paddles for: twistys, on-ramps, and freeway romps. I very rarely use pure tip (mechano-tronic).
Someone chime in to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that once you start using the paddles (regardless of mode) you have to leave them alone for a considerable time (I've heard 15 to 30 seconds) before automatic shifting will resume. This assumes you are not coming to a stop or chasing red-line.

[FastB7S4]

Someone chime in to correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that once you start using the paddles (regardless of mode) you have to leave them alone for a considerable time (I've heard 15 to 30 seconds) before automatic shifting will resume. This assumes you are not coming to a stop or chasing red-line.

Not sure about tip, but definitly in D or S. It's more like 10-15 seconds. I think if you're in tip, it will hold the gear you're in unless you get close to redline.