Looking to buy an 08 S4, advice would be appreciated

[Neon01]

I posted this over at Audiworld, but that forum doesn't seem to be as busy as it used to be.

I used to be an Audi guy when I owned my 2000 B5 S4. In 2004 I moved on to BMWs (3 M3s and a 330i since). Yes, I jump around from car to car depending on life circumstances a bit.

I've been looking at both the BMW 135i and 335i new. They are both very appealing, but I swung by an Audi dealer last night and my eye was drawn to a late model (new) 2008 S4 in dolphin gray.

This one has the convenience pack and nav, as well as the heated seats. They've knocked off a good deal from the MSRP and want just under $50k for it. I thought, wow! That's certainly a lot of car (and features) for the money. But I have some reservations I was hoping you all could provide input on:

1. Fuel economy. Sticker says 14/21, and I've never met a conservative EPA rating, so I'm figuring it's probably somewhere around 15-16 average. Is this true? My current M3 with mods gets around 17-18 with primarily city driving, so it's not THAT far off, but I don't think I could stand to literally _watch_ the gas gauge go down as I drive to work. What do you all get with normal driving?

2. Reliability. How is the reliability with the B7s? The primary reason I moved to BMW from Audi in the first place was because the turbos on my 2.7T blew and I had several other problems with my car (all in less than 70k of use). Are there still reliability concerns with the B7 S4?

3. Resale. I'd like to think I could hang on to _this_ car forever, but I know myself too well by now to believe that. I'm very concerned that the value of an '08 would plummet soon after purchase, especially given the changeover to a supercharged V6 with better mileage in the next gen S4. Any thoughts?

4. Performance. I know this is sort of one of those "it is what it is" deals, but your thoughts would be appreciated in this regard, especially if you're coming from something like an M3 or something else a little more...raw. After test driving both the '08 S4 and the '08 135i, I can definitely say I like the automatic shifting in the 135i better. It really shifts almost as fast as an SMG M3. It even blips throttle on downshift. By comparison, the S4 seems a little sluggish, but definitely faster than most (like the G37 coupe I also drove).

Are there any new or VERY slightly used Avants still out there ('08s) or cars with Alcantara interiors? I LOVED my alcantara seats in my previous S4, I'm not sure why they aren't as popular anymore.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Any other comments you might have are much appreciated.

[Cargo8]

1. Fuel economy for me is ~13-16. 16~17 if I'm driving a lot of highway.

2. It will be more reliable than your old 2.7T S4. And it will be more reliable than a 335i or 135i. I still don't trust that engine entirely. It has insane potential and power, but so many problems in early builds. Gotta get those kinks out.

3. There's a reason why you're already getting a good deal, and you stated it. The new Supercharged V6 is coming. Don't expect to hold value.

4. It's fun, but go on test drives for yourself. Quattro is also something to take into account (inclement weather driving, general grip/traction - the 335i breaks loose and needs TC to intervene FREQUENTLY even with pretty normal driving. No LSD on the 335i either). Are you going Auto S4 or Manual?

Welcome to the board

[all 4 avant]

welcome to the zine.

as relatively new b7 s4 avant owner i can say that i love my new car. i used to have a b5 1.8t stage 3 turbos and tons of mods. then i switched to a volvo s60r which i also loved. bought a bmw z4 for a bit, i even went green for a too and bought a prius, and then finally ended up with an audi again (i switch from car to car alot too).

before i purchased this car i was sceptical- i love the way it drives, but i feel like its lacking in the power department. i was considering 2 other cars at the time: 2009 bmw 135i and 2008 c63 amg.

it wasnt so much about $$ for me, but more about what i would'nt get bored of within a year, and what i felt was the best value. i almost got the bmw, but i hated how small the trunk was, it felt way faster than the audi but after careful thought i personally believe that the audi is a car that i wouldn't get bored of, like i always did with my other cars.

also, i was able to get an insane deal on it. i paid $50k (before tax and license) for a fully loaded '08 b7 s4 with alcantara and nav (its got everything possible).

if speed is very important to you, maybe get the 335i or the 135i (personally i can't stand the 3 series). you can always chip the 1-series and make that thinkg f'ing fast.

i believe the audi is the best buy, it feels amazing when you drive it and the v8 sounds so sexy when you hit the pedal (with a cat-back exhaust this thing sounds amazing).

it doesn't get the best gas mileage, but honestly its a $50k car. if gas prices are a problem then you shouldn't be buying a car this expensive.

IMO you should be able to get the car down to the mid to high $40k's. especially if you are a cash buyer. i do believe there are still some alcantara s4's out there, just do an internet search.

good luck with the decision

[Neon01]

1. Fuel economy for me is ~13-16. 16~17 if I'm driving a lot of highway.

2. It will be more reliable than your old 2.7T S4. And it will be more reliable than a 335i or 135i. I still don't trust that engine entirely. It has insane potential and power, but so many problems in early builds. Gotta get those kinks out.

3. There's a reason why you're already getting a good deal, and you stated it. The new Supercharged V6 is coming. Don't expect to hold value.

4. It's fun, but go on test drives for yourself. Quattro is also something to take into account (inclement weather driving, general grip/traction - the 335i breaks loose and needs TC to intervene FREQUENTLY even with pretty normal driving. No LSD on the 335i either). Are you going Auto S4 or Manual?

Welcome to the board

Thanks for the help! I was a long time member over at AW, but I'm new here, and learning everything all over again.

With regard to reliability, I had written up a form of guide for those new to the B5 S4 ( http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1407640.phtml ), but I couldn't seem to find a similar resource for trouble spots for the B7.

Fuel economy might just be a dealbreaker. That's gonna take some consideration.

Problems with the N54? I've read quite a bit about them and know of nothing beyond the early oil temp issues with the autos that they supposedly fixed. Certainly the turbo doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in the long term though, especially given my history with turbos.

I'm starting to think I'd rather go for a barely used 2008 model with <10k miles on it, and a CPO warranty. These should be running in the ballpark of $43-45k, right? Are we talking about 40-50% loss of value in 3 years? More?

I noticed a couple S4s on autotrader being sold through used car dealers that claimed they had CPO warranties, could this be correct? I thought an actual Audi dealer had to certify them in order to get the 6y/100k warranty, no?

[Neon01]

welcome to the zine.
IMO you should be able to get the car down to the mid to high $40k's. especially if you are a cash buyer. i do believe there are still some alcantara s4's out there, just do an internet search.

good luck with the decision

Thanks, this is tremendously helpful. Where should I look online for the Alcantara S4s? 2008s seem to be somewhat hard to find (there are about 12 on autotrader with autos). Plus all of the dealer ads seem to be very vague about the interior and options.

[yung turbo]

get a used rs6

[norsecarnut]

You did not mention wanting a wagon so I would assume sedan....why the heck aren't you considering the rs4?? after coming from an m3, you'd appreciate it I'm sure.

Also, trying to compare a 135i as you mentioned, you are all over the place in terms of "feel" it seems.

and lastly, did you really say you want an Automatic?! from the things above, I'm not sure you need or will fully utilize and/or appreciate a quattro though.

the 135 would be fun on the track.

the rs4 would be my first choice, except I wanted a wagon.

I love bmw's too, we have a sweet wagon below that has been fun over the past year.

[pismojeff]

PM cotmfk... he has a used 08 with 11K miles on it with the interior you want. think it is a sedan though, and a manual

[all 4 avant]

Thanks, this is tremendously helpful. Where should I look online for the Alcantara S4s? 2008s seem to be somewhat hard to find (there are about 12 on autotrader with autos). Plus all of the dealer ads seem to be very vague about the interior and options.

seeing as you are in maryland, i'm not quite sure where you should look. i used auto trader to search dealers within a couple hundred miles of me. then i looked at what they had available. most of them were very vague (as you mentioned) so i just started calling them. before i knew it, i had 5 or 6 dealers searching nationwide for the car i wanted-it was nuts.

all the dealers were able to offer me a great price and i ended up negotiotiating with a few of them till i got the best deal. the dealer just swapped the car out for one of thier to get in on thier lot (dealer trade).

i kind-f second the other guys comments..perhaps get an rs4..sounds like it might suite u better.

[Neon01]

I'm not looking at the RS4s because of price and the fact that they don't come in an automatic. I have a 6 speed M3 right now that I love, and the whole point to the purchase is really to be able to take my car on more trips - my wife can't drive a manual. Right now every time I go anywhere I'm going to want her to drive (more than 3-4 hours away, or if I'm planning on having a couple drinks, etc), we take her Accord. My M3 only gets used to go to work and on short trips.

Given that I'd probably rather just keep my current car than buy another 6 speed, I'm considering only autos, which really limits my choices.

I understand the 135i feels a bit different than the S4, but it's not a VASTLY different car - they are both 300hp, in the mid to upper 3000-4000 lb range, luxurious, and come with paddle shifted automatics. The S4 has quite a few things the 135i doesn't, but some of it I really don't need (i.e. Quattro), and it is a good deal more expensive considering ED invoice on a loaded 135i is about $39k before T/T.

I'm not dead set on an Avant either. In fact, given that they seem to command a much higher price overall, I think I'd almost rather go with the sedan.

Thanks for the tips All4Avant. I'll be visiting another dealership soon.

[V8S4Fun]

I have only been to Ticsher Audi and was not impressed with them at all. I have heard really good things about Criswell in Annapolis though. If you are looking in the area I suggest posting something in the mid-atlantic forum. I have a B6, my gas mileage is usually about 18mpg, thats a mix of highway and city driving. My best was 24mpg on a trip to DC, all cruise control (after my chip and exhaust). All hwy driving I mostly get around 22-23.

[Neon01]

What's the practical size of the tank (how much can you get in until fuel auto cut-off when you fill up with the gas light on)? I'm seeing posts by people saying they get under 200 miles on a tank! This I cannot live with. If I'm getting horrible gas mileage I at least want a big tank so I have a decent range. My M3 gets a range of 270-300 depending on how much highway I do. The rest of my driving involves some stoplights but primarily 40-50 mph driving along a 15 mile commute. This usually yields about 18-19 mpg, which I can live with. I'm not sure if I could deal with much worse than that though, especially if the tank were very small.

[V8S4Fun]

Well, mostly city driving, I get about 195 to a tank. On a long trip on the hwy I am looking around 350. If you cruise at about 50 most of the way to work I don't think you should have any problem getting over the 200 mark.

[40valve]

Mine is strictly a daily driver and I hit 200 almost every time per tank. Usually 1/3 of that is beating on it pretty hard, 3rd - 4th readline. So if you drive nice otherwise you should be OK. On the highway in low 20mpg driving around 80.

I was in the same boat as you when I was looking for one and wanted to get an automatic so my lady can drive it as well but once I drove the tip and then drove the manual there was was no choice there ... lady don't get to drive the car now. That is why you thought it was sluggish. Taking in consideration for drivetrain loss from quattro and add automatic tranny to it = sluggish.

Looks like you have few nice cars picked out so whatever you get

[Neon01]

I'm hearing a lot of reports of 200 mile range. Does this thing have a small tank? When people are talking about 17 mpg average, a 200 mile range looks like about 11-12 gallons in the tank. My M3 holds about 15 when I'm pretty deep into the red. Regardless of tank size, a 200 mile range (or even pretty close) for regular - not full city - driving really sounds like a dealbreaker. It's such a shame too, I really wanted to like this new S4. There's so much that's right...

[V8S4Fun]

I also fill up my tank before it hits 1/4 tank. I can do a trial for you if you want, or, what do you drive, maybe we'll swap for a week...lol.

[Neon01]

I also fill up my tank before it hits 1/4 tank. I can do a trial for you if you want, or, what do you drive, maybe we'll swap for a week...lol.

If you happen to find out, I'd appreciate it. A couple pics of my current ride:

[velocipedio]

I posted this over at Audiworld, but that forum doesn't seem to be as busy as it used to be.

I used to be an Audi guy when I owned my 2000 B5 S4. In 2004 I moved on to BMWs (3 M3s and a 330i since). Yes, I jump around from car to car depending on life circumstances a bit.

I've been looking at both the BMW 135i and 335i new. They are both very appealing, but I swung by an Audi dealer last night and my eye was drawn to a late model (new) 2008 S4 in dolphin gray.

This one has the convenience pack and nav, as well as the heated seats. They've knocked off a good deal from the MSRP and want just under $50k for it. I thought, wow! That's certainly a lot of car (and features) for the money. But I have some reservations I was hoping you all could provide input on:

1. Fuel economy. Sticker says 14/21, and I've never met a conservative EPA rating, so I'm figuring it's probably somewhere around 15-16 average. Is this true? My current M3 with mods gets around 17-18 with primarily city driving, so it's not THAT far off, but I don't think I could stand to literally _watch_ the gas gauge go down as I drive to work. What do you all get with normal driving?

2. Reliability. How is the reliability with the B7s? The primary reason I moved to BMW from Audi in the first place was because the turbos on my 2.7T blew and I had several other problems with my car (all in less than 70k of use). Are there still reliability concerns with the B7 S4?

3. Resale. I'd like to think I could hang on to _this_ car forever, but I know myself too well by now to believe that. I'm very concerned that the value of an '08 would plummet soon after purchase, especially given the changeover to a supercharged V6 with better mileage in the next gen S4. Any thoughts?

4. Performance. I know this is sort of one of those "it is what it is" deals, but your thoughts would be appreciated in this regard, especially if you're coming from something like an M3 or something else a little more...raw. After test driving both the '08 S4 and the '08 135i, I can definitely say I like the automatic shifting in the 135i better. It really shifts almost as fast as an SMG M3. It even blips throttle on downshift. By comparison, the S4 seems a little sluggish, but definitely faster than most (like the G37 coupe I also drove).

Are there any new or VERY slightly used Avants still out there ('08s) or cars with Alcantara interiors? I LOVED my alcantara seats in my previous S4, I'm not sure why they aren't as popular anymore.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Any other comments you might have are much appreciated.

Why not wait for the B8 S4? The car will get much better fuel economy, will be faster, and has more optimal placement of the engine. MSRP on the B8 is supposed to be in the same territory as the B7 you are considering.

[Neon01]

Why not wait for the B8 S4? The car will get much better fuel economy, will be faster, and has more optimal placement of the engine. MSRP on the B8 is supposed to be in the same territory as the B7 you are considering.

In a word - price. Only reason I'm considering the S4 is because I can get $8k off MSRP, bringing it closer to my ideal budget of <$45k. I can flex as high as $50k if I get exactly what I'm looking for, but there's no way those B8s will be anywhere close for at least until end of '09/early '10.

[velocipedio]

In a word - price. Only reason I'm considering the S4 is because I can get $8k off MSRP, bringing it closer to my ideal budget of <$45k. I can flex as high as $50k if I get exactly what I'm looking for, but there's no way those B8s will be anywhere close for at least until end of '09/early '10.

In that case, I'd buy a lightly used 1-2 year old car for much less. You can then see how you like it, and by the time the new models come down in price a bit, you'll probably be in a position to pick one up. The new B7 may not be a bad deal, but to me new cars are almost always a bad deal when you consider depreciation.

[V8S4Fun]

Ahh nice Bimmer, sure let me know if you want that swap! I'll fill up today, give me about a week, I'll let you know.

[charliemike]

1. I get 20mpg average in mixed driving and close to 24mpg if I'm cruising at 65mph. I don't drive like a maniac. That helps.

2. AUdi's reliability (according to JD Power) has increased from 2006 to 2008 to the point that Audi has gone from well below average to slightly above average.

3. I still think that if you're not going to keep your car for more than 2-3 years (in theory) then buying new is a mistake. I bought my 2005 after 3 years of in-service for $28k ... The car was close to $50k new.

4. I think that the 135i and 335i are probably faster but I haven't been in one yet. I didn't get the S4 for "from a stoplight" acceleration but for 30-50 and 50-70 acceleration.

Again, I wouldn't buy new. Buy a used B7.

[channad]

I have black on black alcantara in my car...it's awesome! and the girlies love it!

[calvin1.8t]

i got to drive one of these. what a ride. its worth the gas money in my opinion. it drives like a dream, handles like nothing else, takes off like a bat out of hell. i love it. the 4.2 is an amazing engine. will be fun to tune to. do something crazy with it. twin turbos a supercharger.

[Ike]

Teach your wife to drive manual... If she has problems with that find a new wife

[Beelzeebub]

one advice: Buy mine! I need the funds to buy some guns. lol. JK.