GT or other option like bullseye?

[njm23]

So I am gunna be gettin my new turbo soon and have been looking at some options. I am going with the GT3076r but now I am thinking about some other options. I saw bassed running the bullseye series turbo and I have been seeing them pop up more and more in other car scenes and getting good results. Does anyone have any input on any ups and downs between the 2? I mean I see they all have similar power capabilities, but does one spool any sooner while still making the same power ect..? Just curious and I can't find to much info between the 2, or maybe im lazy and missed it.

[jrock]

gt's spool faster

[njm23]

ha okay, any proof behind that statement? Cause I see you have a ko4.. really looking for some graphs or someone who has done some research on it and can give me a good explanation between the 2.

[jrock]

ya im lookin to do gt35 here in the future. The spool is faster on the dual ball bearing turbos right now.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech101.html

Turbo Response – When driving a vehicle with the cartridge ball bearing turbocharger, you will find exceptionally crisp and strong throttle response. Garrett Ball Bearing turbochargers spool up 15% faster than traditional journal bearings. This produces an improved response that can be converted to quicker 0-60 mph speed. In fact, some professional drivers of Garrett ball-bearing turbocharged engines report that they feel like they are driving a big, normally aspirated engine.

Tests run on CART turbos have shown that ball-bearings have up to half of the power consumption of traditional bearings. The result is faster time to boost which translates into better drivability and acceleration.

On-engine performance is also better in the steady-state for the Garrett Cartridge Ball Bearing



Reduced Oil Flow – The ball bearing design reduces the required amount of oil required to provide adequate lubrication. This lower oil volume reduces the chance for seal leakage. Also, the ball bearing is more tolerant of marginal lube conditions, and diminishes the possibility of turbocharger failure on engine shut down.

Improved Rotordynamics and Durability – The ball bearing cartridge gives better damping and control over shaft motion, allowing enhanced reliability for both everyday and extreme driving conditions. In addition, the opposed angular contact bearing cartridge eliminates the need for the thrust bearing commonly a weak link in the turbo bearing system.

Competitor Ball Bearing Options – Another option one will find is a hybrid ball bearing. This consists of replacing only the compressor side journal bearing with a single angular contact ball bearing. Since the single bearing can only take thrust in one direction, a thrust bearing is still necessary and drag in the turbine side journal bearing is unchanged. With the Garrett ball bearing cartridge the rotor-group is entirely supported by the ball bearings, maximizing efficiency, performance, and durability.

Ball Bearings in Original Equipment – Pumping up the MAZDASPEED Protegé’s heart rate is a Garrett T25 turbocharger system. With Garrett technology on board, the vehicle gains increased acceleration without sacrificing overall efficiency and it has received many rave reviews from the world’s top automotive press for it’s unprecedented performance.

[jrock]

sorry there was a graph in there but it didnt transfer so i put the link in

[AudiRacerS4]

gt's spool faster

wrong

[djwimbo]

wrong

X2.

NTM you can have BullsEye put a Garrett ball bearing CHRA into one of their turbos.
There's a ton of stuff you can do, or have done to a bullseye. Call 'em up and talk to the dude/s about what your goals are and see what they recommend.

Between the extended tips, different A/R options and Garrett CHRA you can have one mean MF'in turbo.

[AudiRacerS4]

X2.

NTM you can have BullsEye put a Garrett ball bearing CHRA into one of their turbos.
There's a ton of stuff you can do, or have done to a bullseye. Call 'em up and talk to the dude/s about what your goals are and see what they recommend.

Between the extended tips, different A/R options and Garrett CHRA you can have one mean MF'in turbo.

yes bullesye can make a custom/hybrid turbo based on your needs.

[317ssayzarc]

wrong

come on now...

[njm23]

well yeah I know they can make something custom, but you could do that with just about anything but your paying an arm and a leg. From what I see the Garret 3076r is about the same price as a s256 or a s258. So what is the differences between them? Is it even worth getting a bullseye if not going into a hybrid route? As far as power, I was completely set on the .63 3076r. But was only curious as to what/if there were any BETTER options as far as spooling n shit goes for about the same price. This is what got me going, just don't know any details on the s200 if it is hybrid or not ect. What you think?

[djwimbo]

Spool isn't entirely dependent on what size turbo you use.
Depending on the A/R and a couple other things, you could get a 3076 that spooled faster than a 3071, or even 2876.

I know too little about the subject of turbo selection. Typically the the S256/S258 would be considered (in size/output) a half step between the 30R and 35R.
Keep in mind though that the BullsEye is not water cooled. They claim to not have any issues with it yet, but that's something you should consider.

[njm23]

I read they have good warranty's, any back up on that?. Yeah but I lose power at the same time. Well yeah I am familiar with bullseye ratings, which is why i was looking at the s256 and s258.

[djwimbo]

I read they have good warranty's, any back up on that?. Yeah but I lose power at the same time. Well yeah I am familiar with bullseye ratings, which is why i was looking at the s256 and s258.

worst case scenario you can ship it to me and I can throw it through their front door. The company is 40 mins from my house and work.

[mike-2ptzero]

Another option is a HTA30r or HTA35r, these are garrett turbos that now have a extended tip design compressor wheel in them and a ported shroud 35r compressor housing.

Extended tip compressor wheel moves more air sooner so tq/hp start to climb sooner. It can also be ran at a much higher boost level at the same effiency range as a GT at a lower boost.

[bassed]

gt's spool faster

Flip that and you'd be right.

I read they have good warranty's, any back up on that?. Yeah but I lose power at the same time. Well yeah I am familiar with bullseye ratings, which is why i was looking at the s256 and s258.

Yes they have a 2 year warranty or you can get it cheaper without. I run a Hybrid S258 in a S256 with the .55 a/r and 50/20 Trims. I have full boost by 4400 RPMs, put down 327/272 @ 18psi and just ran a 13.221 @ 26psi today.

I am a big fan of them so far and will be sticking with them and I may end up going S362 Hybrid sooner than later:)

[a220vt]

X2.

NTM you can have BullsEye put a Garrett ball bearing CHRA into one of their turbos.

Do you have any proof of this? Last I heard was that Bullseye won't do BB CHRA's.

If you look around on other forums at real dyno charts, not advertisements, you'll see that depending on housing options, they can spool pretty quickly if you're using the .55. It really depends on who you ask though I think. I seems like the people who sell them will tell you that they're the best thing since sliced bread and will outspool anything out there. Until I see a back to back test of similarly sized units I'll remain skeptical about the spool issue. The BW's have been shown to make more top end power due to the ETT technology. I think the obvious solution is DBB with the ETT, like the HTA 35r. Best of both worlds.

I'm running a 3076 .63 right now, I have a custom S258 ball bearing turbo that is going on next. I'm going to dyno both and see how the spool compares (I know it's not an ideal comparison but it will still be nice to compare).

Also, Bassed, you run a hybrid S256 right? Is it ball bearing? What are the wheel specs, and what makes it different from the standard S256?

[bassed]

Do you have any proof of this? Last I heard was that Bullseye won't do BB CHRA's. .

They do and will.

[njm23]

Another option is a HTA30r or HTA35r, these are garrett turbos that now have a extended tip design compressor wheel in them and a ported shroud 35r compressor housing.

I've heard about these but they just slipped my mind. Just looked over on the forced performance
site, it looks like a really good turbo for what I am looking for (the HTA30r). So the HTA ones hit sooner and have a higher efficacy range, from what i've read up to about 40psi? seams like there is not to much info out there on these, all I see is the 35rHTA

Bassed are you running a ball bearing setup in the hybrid? Your hybrid flows about close to the same as the s258 no? That turbo maxxed out that you say your gunna step up to the s362?

[a220vt]

They do and will.

Okay.... Why is it widely said that they won't? Where is the advertisement for this? I'm just curious is all, not saying you're wrong.

What are the specs on your turbo?

[djwimbo]

Okay.... Why is it widely said that they won't? Where is the advertisement for this? I'm just curious is all, not saying you're wrong.

What are the specs on your turbo?

It's not advertised. I know they'll build it, if they build it, they'll warranty it.

The HTA stuff I've heard is great. I haven't used any, I'm new to the whole turbo thing really. ... That being said, I'm hearing through the grapevine that the BullsEye's are still owning the HTA's, they just aren't as popular, yet.

[317ssayzarc]

Someones gotta try one of these:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m..._Code=Turbo-FP

Hot off the press

[tdn]

put down 327/272 @ 18psi and just ran a 13.221 @ 26psi today.

I haven't slept in a few days, but do you mean 327/272 @ 26psi and you ran a 13.2 @ 18psi?

[djwimbo]

I haven't slept in a few days, but do you mean 327/272 @ 26psi and you ran a 13.2 @ 18psi?

No, 327Awhp @ 18psi on a BullsEye "S200", he jacked it up to 26psi and then ran the 13.2

[a220vt]

It really all depends on what you plan to do, if your looking for peak numbers, the BW may be the better choice. A BB turbo will give you more progressive acceleration. Just do a search on Evolutionm.net for Bullseye or Borg Warner, there's tons of real world information there from people who are actually using these turbos.

[Poopie]

No, 327Awhp @ 18psi on a BullsEye "S200", he jacked it up to 26psi and then ran the 13.2

his car weights 3510lbs with him in it. he did no weigh reductions and he enjoys beer.

[bassed]

his car weights 3510lbs with him in it. he did no weigh reductions and he enjoys beer.

Don't forget I am the suck at launch, dealing with the Tree and staging as a whole. Mike could have been low 12's all day with the car maybe high 11's.

[317ssayzarc]

Don't forget I am the suck at launch, dealing with the Tree and staging as a whole. Mike could have been low 12's all day with the car maybe high 11's.

Low 12's? A full second off just by driver change? Your 60ft on that one run wasnt that bad...

[bassed]

Low 12's? A full second off just by driver change? Your 60ft on that one run wasnt that bad...

Not bad but 3/10's more than Mike runs. Go look at the 1/4 database my traps are mid 12's all day. Yes Jake driver makes the world of a difference. Christ my own 3 runs are testimate to that. I will be back out this season and I will run low 12's high 11's at some point with more practice.

[mike-2ptzero]

Low 12's? A full second off just by driver change? Your 60ft on that one run wasnt that bad...

I have put .3 seconds on good drivers that know how to drag racing and know how to launch their AWD turbo cars. So a full second on a noob drag racer wouldn't be all that hard. Just in 3 shifts there could a difference of .5 to .75 seconds and every .1 dropped off the launch is worth up to .15 seconds.

[317ssayzarc]

Wow

[djwimbo]

his car weights 3510lbs with him in it. he did no weigh reductions and he enjoys beer.

Damn, are facelift cars that heavy or is that with the driver(Ian) in the car?
I was 3383lbs with me in the car and 3/4 tank of fuel. Weight reduction limited to the trunk being stripped and 3/4 of my bumper rebar removed.

FWIW I like beer a lot too.

Don't forget I am the suck at launch, dealing with the Tree and staging as a whole.

It's tough to get used to. This is my first AWD car, let alone my first turbo car, getting used to launching is a PITA. It is awesome watching the videos from my AutoX runs, people react really funny when you launch it hard enough to cut 1.8-1.9's at an AutoX event.

I much prefer the cones, corners and the one track day I've been to though. Drag racing is more of a dyno-less proof of power. Fun for the numbers and the crowd, but there's only soo much open road. It turns at some point.

[onemoremile]

My car is 3600 with me in it. 3800 with a passenger along for the ride.

Bullseye won't do a ball bearing section. Been there, talked to Dave and Tim, got the swag t-shirt, they don't do it. They suggested that it might be a vendor doing a hybrid with a center section that is half bushing and half bearing but they wouldn't do one in their shop. The HTA turbos are probably the best of the bunch right now. The 3076hta should make more power than a 3076r and have a wider power band. The S200(S256) should be more responsive than a 3071 and they have made 500whp on an Evo. The S258 is a bit more power and the S259 is in 35r territory. The S300 lineup is up there with the 35r and beyond. They had a couple there that were capable of 1600+ hp each.

Last spring Chad Block of CBRD told me that Blough Turbo had done hybrid ball bearing Bullseye turbos for some of their Evolution customers. Blough (Jake?) said the Garretts are better when I asked about a custom Bullseye.

If you've got the cash then go with a hybrid Bullseye or HTA. FWIW, the extended tips aren't just taller but they extend past the major diameter down low too. They hold the air longer and act like a pitcher with a longer arm.

[djwimbo]

I was waiting for you to chip in.

I gotta talk to those guys, I have a couple questions for them.

[Wizard-of-OD]

said the Garretts are better

for what the everyday average user wants,Garrett has a solution and Garrett has WAY MORE development into turbochargers than Bullseye.

I have seen the results comparing the Bullseye turbochargers to Garrett equivalents etc and I know Marc Hubert well (he runs the 10s MKIII Golf @ WF - huge supporter of Bullseye turbochargers).If you are not building a 700whp 1.8T then stick to whats been proven.

[mike-2ptzero]

Damn, are facelift cars that heavy or is that with the driver(Ian) in the car?
I was 3383lbs with me in the car and 3/4 tank of fuel. Weight reduction limited to the trunk being stripped and 3/4 of my bumper rebar removed.

FWIW I like beer a lot too.



It's tough to get used to. This is my first AWD car, let alone my first turbo car, getting used to launching is a PITA. It is awesome watching the videos from my AutoX runs, people react really funny when you launch it hard enough to cut 1.8-1.9's at an AutoX event.

I much prefer the cones, corners and the one track day I've been to though. Drag racing is more of a dyno-less proof of power. Fun for the numbers and the crowd, but there's only soo much open road. It turns at some point.

The weight has nothing to do with it being a facelift car or not. His weight is with everything in his car along with the mods he has put in, like the very heavy SPA manifold and heavy S256.

[a220vt]

They suggested that it might be a vendor doing a hybrid with a center section that is half bushing and half bearing

This is what I have waiting to go on from ForcedInductions. I also talked to CBRD when I purchased my turbo, they can make custom turbos with the ETT compressor wheels as well.

[mike-2ptzero]

for what the everyday average user wants,Garrett has a solution and Garrett has WAY MORE development into turbochargers than Bullseye.

I have seen the results comparing the Bullseye turbochargers to Garrett equivalents etc and I know Marc Hubert well (he runs the 10s MKIII Golf @ WF - huge supporter of Bullseye turbochargers).If you are not building a 700whp 1.8T then stick to whats been proven.

If we all stuck with what is proven then no one would try anything new. Fact is that if you go to a import drag event now you will find nearly all of the cars that were running Garrett are now running the big Borg Warner turbos and those that still have a Garrett changed out the compressor wheel for a BW extened tip wheel. This is exactly what I noticed when looking at all of the turbo civics at the BOTI event this weekend.

[Wizard-of-OD]

If we all stuck with what is proven then no one would try anything new. Fact is that if you go to a import drag event now you will find nearly all of the cars that were running Garrett are now running the big Borg Warner turbos and those that still have a Garrett changed out the compressor wheel for a BW extened tip wheel. This is exactly what I noticed when looking at all of the turbo civics at the BOTI event this weekend.

Again

If you are not building a 700whp 1.8T then stick to whats been proven.

[bassed]

Again

I believe my spool and 18psi results alone are proof enough for the vast majority of the Bullseye, considering it has already done what it was apparently not capable of in terms of fast spool up. If it wasn't for me going with this Turbo Setup it would have been someone else, but at least now we have some preliminary data compiled at low boost (dyno wise) and a slew of my 3rd gear pulls with 26psi. Being that you are in school for Civil Engineering I would have thought by now you would have realized proven is not how the world works if it is to advance. If this was the way things went we would all be experienceing a very different world , with minimal change or advancement. The same can be said for the tuning community. It's tuners and people like Mike and myself who have stepped so far outside the norm and proven setups that have pushed forward opening more doors and options for the rest of the community. We all know about my push with the SPA manifold, which was not proven and has now become the basis for your 034 kit as you've posted about. I guess in regards to that it's a good thing I put over 10k on it and was the first one to run it, thus prooving it works well. You have to try new things, is my simple point; otherwise the world would be static and we would all be sitting around in thatch and straw homes or driving the Model T still.

[a220vt]

Would you mind sharing the specs on your turbo since it isn't an off-the-shelf BW unit? Or is it some kind of secret? I've asked you this a couple times now and haven't gotten a response.