B6 S4 Engine Knock @ 99K HELP!!

[nonsense55]

Just purchased a $12k one owner S4 from a dirtball dealer accross the country. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is??? Upon arrival the engine has a knocking sound only at idle once its warmed up but the car seems to run perfect. Local Audi Dealer is scratching their heads??? Anybody ever hear/see anything like this?

Any advice or hunches are appriciated.

[phantom b6]

My last car (non-Audi) had ticking at idle which was cured by a fresh oil change with a little bit of additive meant specifically for valve ticking.

That might work, but I'd like to hear from someone else and see if they think it's a bad idea to use any additives on an Audi. All sorts of tempermental.

[belinko]

Just purchased a $12k one owner S4 from a dirtball dealer accross the country. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is??? Upon arrival the engine has a knocking sound only at idle once its warmed up but the car seems to run perfect. Local Audi Dealer is scratching their heads??? Anybody ever hear/see anything like this?

Any advice or hunches are appriciated.

Please try to describe what your hearing in more detail.

Ticking, Knocking, rough idle, valve clatter. Try searching the forums.

[3 bar]

Im thinking you have a couple of bad lifters figuring out which of the 40 are bad is going to be challenging

[hayasa]

A lot of well used engines have rod knock when cold. It means there is more space in the cylinder than spec, but once it warms up, the metal expands and fills the space. Nothing to worry about if that is what it is, except for a little annoyance and maybe burning a little oil upon cold start-up.

[nonsense55]

Please try to describe what your hearing in more detail.

Ticking, Knocking, rough idle, valve clatter. Try searching the forums.

I have searched everywhere for a similar problem in a 4.2 but haven't had much luck. The knock is just at idle and only when its warm. It sounds deeper than the clicking i am used to with valves/exhaust and the dealer here thinks it is coming from the drivers side of the engine. If you put your hand on the valve cover on that side, you can feel the constant knock that is heard. The car idles perfect and runs great. Just had an oil change and it did not help???

[nonsense55]

A lot of well used engines have rod knock when cold. It means there is more space in the cylinder than spec, but once it warms up, the metal expands and fills the space. Nothing to worry about if that is what it is, except for a little annoyance and maybe burning a little oil upon cold start-up.

Unfortunately, my scenerio is the opposite. If it is cold, i have no knocking and when it gets up to temp the knock begins???

[nonsense55]

The dealer mentioned the next step to be pull the valve cover on the side making the noise. They are guessing a couple hours and $100 for the new gasket to put it back together. This will not include any repairs made once they get inside. I assume they can figure things our this way if it is the lifters. At least for $100 an hour, they will try??

[manhattanprjkt8]

just wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone can help me out as well.

I have an 04 with 73k on the clock and I am getting a pretty loud knock after the car has warmed up but it is only occurring at very slow speeds (pulling into a parking spot, backing up, or idle) and it is pretty intermittent but quite loud when it occurs.

Has anyone had a similar situation occur?

[guineag60]

There are a couple of TSB's on elsa for a rattle or knocking noise coming from many places on our cars. These are some of the titles for some. Ill see if elsa/asis will let me copy the actual tsb text. But look at groups 15 and 24


00 Immobilizer Gen. III Code Retrieval Using VAS5051 and GeKo (2010225/3)
00 Software Version Management (SVM), operating instructions (2011732/7)
00 Technician preparation when calling the Audi Technical Assistance Center (2002047/4)
00 VIN plates, Safety Certification labels, ordering procedures (2021205/1)
01 Coolant temperature too high - 4.2L (2018311/2)
01 MIL on (DTCs for misfire, P0300 - P0312) (2021232/3)
01 MIL on (Mass airflow sensor DTCs P0101, P0102, P0103, P0112, P0113 in ECM) (2014521/4)
01 MIL on, engine runs rough after hot start (DTC P0300 - P0308 in ECM) (2017310/2)
01 MIL on, gasoline quality (DTC P0300 or P030x, lean condition DTCs) (2014753/7)
10 Engine replacement, checking for debris lodged in transferred assemblies (2018288/2)
13 Engine, Front Crankshaft Seal Replacement (2010290/3)
13 Engine, Repairing (2010023/3)
15 Control housing for camshaft adjuster, ensuring shim washer Installation when repairing (2011714/2)
15 Rattle/knocking noise from camshaft adjuster atengine start (2010294/5)
17 Engine oils that meet Audi Oil QualityStandards 502 00, 505 01, and 504 00/507 00 (2010043/9)
17 Oil consumption measurement (2018550/7)
19 Coolant Reservoir, Appears to be Leaking (2009959/4)
20 Fuel Gauge Diagnosis (2010307/3)
20 Fuel tank removed from vehicle, neutralizing fuel (2011703/2)
24 Engine, Intake Manifold Mounting Bolt Torque (2010064/3)
24 Fuel Injectors, Unnecessary Replacement (2010061/4)
24 Rattling from intake manifold (2017369/3)
27 Whistling and jarring noises from belt drive - 4.2L MPI (2018230/2)
37 ATF pan leaks (2013002/3)
37 Vehicle lacks power or will not move after stop (2003658/4)

[guineag60]

Technical Service Bulletin Transaction No.: 2010294/5
15 Rattle/knocking noise from camshaft adjuster at engine start Release date: Nov 21, 2008

Condition

REVISION HISTORY

Revision
Date
Purpose

5
-
Revised Title to include Repair Group


Rattle or knocking noise from camshaft chain tensioner(s) or camshaft adjuster(s) for 1-2 seconds after engine start.

Technical Background

The camshaft adjustment is hydraulically actuated and controlled by the engine oil pressure. If the engine has been turned off for a long time, the oil pressure drops down and the oil partially flows back into the oil sump.

To ensure an efficient camshaft adjustment right after an engine cold start, the oil pressure inside the camshaft adjusters must be built up as fast as possible. During this time, a rattle or knocking noise may be noticeable.

This noise is normal at engine start and will last until the oil pressure is fully built up, which takes about 1-2 seconds.

Production Solution

Not applicable.

Service

Do not replace the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) for a noise concern as described above.

Replacing the Camshaft Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s) will not eliminate this noise.

Warranty

This TSB is informational only and not applicable to any Audi warranty.





All parts and service references provided in this TSB are subject to change and/or removal. Always check with your Parts Department and service manuals for the latest information.

©2008 Audi of America, Inc. All rights reserved. Information contained in this document is based on the latest information available at the time of printing and is subject to the copyright and other intellectual property rights of Audi of America, Inc., its affiliated companies and its licensors. All rights are reserved to make changes at any time without notice. No part of this document may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, nor may these materials be modified or reposted to other sites, without the prior expressed written permission of the publisher.

[guineag60]

Technical Service Bulletin Transaction No.: 2017369/3
24 Rattling from intake manifold Release date: Dec 17, 2008

Condition

REVISION HISTORY

Revision
Date
Purpose

3
-
Revised Title to add Repair Group


Sporadic hard metallic rattling sound from intake manifold only after first cold start, audible for 1-2 seconds.

Technical Background

Early activation of the vacuum solenoid valves for the variable intake manifold by the Engine Control Module (J623) during cold engine starts may cause the internal intake flaps to vibrate and create a brief rattling sound from the intake manifold.

Production Solution

New software in Engine Control Module (J623) resolved the intake manifold rattling issue.

Tip: Please explain to the customers that this new software is the latest software level with improved driving characteristics, which includes the following changes:

• The exhaust flap (if equipped) is always open, and no diagnosis of the Exhaust Flap Valve N321 is possible. Up to 1,700 rpm the engine is a bit louder, as the exhaust flap is always open.

• Faster throttle overrun cutoff, with more direct accelerator pedal and reduced overrun after releasing the accelerator.

• To prevent the clutch from slipping when accelerating from a stop, the engine torque is slightly reduced when vehicle speed is below 20 mph and the engine speed is higher than 4600 rpm. There is no noticeable performance difference.


Service

SVM Update Instructions

1. If you encounter a vehicle with a tuned ECM or TCM, your dealership must do the following before performing any procedure that updates ECM or TCM programming:

Note:

Any Update Programming procedure (flash) may overwrite any tuned ECM or TCM programming. A tuned ECM or TCM is described as any ECM or TCM altered so as to perform outside the normal parameters and specifications approved by Audi of America, Inc.

a. Notify the owner that their ECM or TCM was found to have been tuned.

b. Notify the owner that any damage caused by the tuning of the ECM or TCM (including any adverse emissions consequences) will not be covered by Audi of America, Inc. warranties.

c. Obtain the owner's written consent (see attached Control Module Tuning form) for any requested repair - under warranty or outside warranty - that requires flashing that will automatically overwrite the tuned program.


2. Check the software part number and software level in the Engine Control Module (J623).

3. Prior to beginning the SVM process, insert a USB memory stick into the VAS 5051 tester to capture the diagnostic log electronically.

4. Connect the VAS 5051A and VAS 5051B to a 110V AC power supply. The VAS 5051A and VAS 5051B must be connected to 110V AC power supply at all times during the procedure.

5. Update the Engine Control Module (J623) using SVM action code as listed in the table below if necessary.

Note: Only VAS 6017B adapter can be used for this update. Usage of VAS 6017 or 6017A may result in complete control module failure.



Model
Engine
Old Software Part Number
Old Software Version

(or lower)
New Software Part Number
New Software Version

(or higher)
SVM Action Code

S4
4.2L
8E0 910 560 A
0020
8E0 910 560 G
0030
8E01A037

S4
4.2L
8E0 910 560 C
0010
8E0 910 560 H
0020

S4
4.2L
8E0 910 560 G
0020
8E0 910 560 G
0030

S4
4.2L
8E0 910 560 H
0010
8E0 910 560 H
0020

S4
4.2L
8E0 910 560 Q
0020
8E0 910 560 G
0030

S4 Cabrio
4.2L
8H0 910 560 B
0020
8H0 910 560 F
0030

S4 Cabrio
4.2L
8H0 910 560 C
0020
8H0 910 560 G
0020

S4 Cabrio
4.2L
8H0 910 560 G
0010
8H0 910 560 G
0020

S4 Cabrio
4.2L
8H0 910 560 F
0020
8H0 910 560 F
0030



• If the vehicle has a tuned ECM or TCM, ensure the Control Module Tuning form has been filled out by the owner.

• Tip: The SVM Process must be completed in its entirety so the database receives the update confirmation response. A warranty claim may not be reimbursed if there is no confirmation response to support the claim.

• After updating the programming of the ECM, it is not necessary to set the Readiness Code.


For further SVM update instructions and troubleshooting, please refer to the SVM Operating Manual; ElsaWeb TSB 2011732.

Warranty

When procedure applies to vehicles under warranty, use the following:

SAGA

Claim Type:
110

Service Number:
2470

Damage Code:
0039

Labor Operations:
2470 25 99
Update Engine Control Module with SVM
70 TU

Diagnostic Time:
Diagnostic time reimbursement follows guidelines printed in Section 2.2 of the Audi Warranty Policies and Procedures Manual

Claim Comment:
As per TSB #2017369/3

All warranty claims submitted for payment must be in accordance with the Audi Warranty Policies and Procedures Manual. Claims are subject to review or audit by Audi Warranty.


Required Parts and Tools

• Approved charger.


Additional Information

The following Technical Service Bulletin will be necessary to complete this procedure:

• 2011732; Software Version Management (SVM) Operating Manual


All part and service references provided in this TSB are subject to change and/or removal. Always check with your Parts Dept. and service manuals for the latest information.

[manhattanprjkt8]

Thanks for posting these up but this knock is NOT when I am starting the car, it is after it has run for quite a long time. I was aware of the startup the dealership told me about it a while ago.

It is def after the car has been run for a while and I am running at a very low RPM...

[riegeraudi]

If the warranty is finished then I would advise you to go to a very good independent shop that specialize in Audi's this is way better than the dealership. They probably can narrow it down for you much better.

[Kookie]

Thanks for posting these up but this knock is NOT when I am starting the car, it is after it has run for quite a long time. I was aware of the startup the dealership told me about it a while ago.

It is def after the car has been run for a while and I am running at a very low RPM...

I think that was an answer for the OP... maybe? That would be why it was of no help to you. Now, do you have a point and shoot that you think would capture the noise? Or can you determine where the noise is coming from at all? As far as the intermittency of the issue, most engines(I will stand corrected if I'm wrong) that have a knock, usually show constant signs.. maybe at different RPM it goes away, but usually a knock will not go away and come back.. as far as I know..



It could be a lot of things, so try to explain as detailed as you can and I'll help if I can. Good luck!

I'm very curious to know what this sound is.

[Kookie]

If the warranty is finished then I would advise you to go to a very good independent shop that specialize in Audi's this is way better than the dealership. They probably can narrow it down for you much better.

+1 They may have already seen the problem in a prior vehicle.

[manhattanprjkt8]

i do actually have a great shop close by, i usually do most of the stuff on my own but this falls out of my ability i believe...

I will most likely take it to the shop...

[manhattanprjkt8]

If the warranty is finished then I would advise you to go to a very good independent shop that specialize in Audi's this is way better than the dealership. They probably can narrow it down for you much better.

I'll do my best
-So just to state it again it is at very low RPM idle or slightly above
-Seems to be coming from the driver side of the car (not totally postive about that but a quick ear under the hood gave me that idea)
-It is def a 'knock' sound that will hit about 10 times then go away
-once i pull out in first gear it's gone...

The odd thing is that it isnt always happening at a certain RPM, sometimes the car will idle perfectly then this occurs.

I wish i could say more but i think that is all i got right now...thanks for reading

[brad65ford]

I feel for you guys, I know what its like taking a chance on a used car with high mileage and then the unknown. I purchased a 5.0 mustang with a nock which I thought it was a lifter/cam, replace both cam and lifters and the nock was still there. Must have been a rod or something, sucks putting time and money into a car and coming up with the same problem and less time and money in your pocket. Hope you figure it out and let us know. Go to the dealership for the money if all else fails.

[manhattanprjkt8]

mine actually wasnt that high, i have put 25k on it so far...i think that is the OP that had that problem, i was just trying to bump this to avoid starting a new thread...we all love that.

[Justincredible]

I would do a leak-down check on the motor if you can. This might explain more if its a piston slap issue

[manhattanprjkt8]

would it make sense that this only occurs when fuel is below a quarter tank? I had the car completely full and couldnt get it to create the knock...does that make sense?

[ZEUSROTTY]

Take it to JHM and have them rebuild it.... Then when you can afford to take it back to them, have them trow that TT kit on it... Problem solved. And you get to go fast.

[MOLDOVANOS]

When I had slightly bent valves my engine was knocking loud

[eldred]

Unfortunately, my scenerio is the opposite. If it is cold, i have no knocking and when it gets up to temp the knock begins???

so good news and bad news. i had the same problem on my b6 s4. and i just got it back friday from the shop. and i also have 99k on it. the knock only came for me when i came to an idle after i rev'd up over like 5000 and when it was hot. so it was either drive slow or hear the noise. but it wouldnt do it all the time, so it kind of messes with you. and i wouldnt hear it while i was moving. i agree with the valve lifters and a changed the oil but that didnt really help, however the bigger probelm was my cam adjusters. the tension on your timing chains could be going out. and thats bad. it was like $7200, thank god for warranty's!

[atott]

Hey guys im new here, but i just purchased a b6 s4 v8 63k miles from calgary i had it shipped to quebec, when i got the car and turned it on it sounded like it just hadnt ran in a month or so on the transport, but when it warmed up a loud engine knock started to occur much like the knock described in the earlier threads. its been at the garage now for the past two weeks and the problems still not fixed. they replaced the tansioner on the chain, head gasket right and left, and now he says they ordered lifters to replace some. the noise is louder when the car is warm, its loud, i can hear it from inside the car when idleing or at a stop its very loud at low rpms. im not to sure what the problem might be.
thanks

atott

[NogaroBlue$4]

I actually have noticed a similar sound in my 2004 S4. It is only when the car is creeping along at low RPM's. I have a stretch of my daily commute which is under construction and we are stop and go for about 15 minutes and I hear it every day.

It sounds like it is coming from under the hood, driver side.

just wanted to bump this thread to see if anyone can help me out as well.

I have an 04 with 73k on the clock and I am getting a pretty loud knock after the car has warmed up but it is only occurring at very slow speeds (pulling into a parking spot, backing up, or idle) and it is pretty intermittent but quite loud when it occurs.

Has anyone had a similar situation occur?

[AndyGs4]

Guys, take your car to your local indy shop, have the valve covers taken off and the cam adjusters checked.

The cam adjuster part number has changed at least twice since 2004; the original part number is a known weakness in the 2003-2004 built cars.



My cam adjusters were shot at 58K. Didn't get bad enough to knock; my motor got replaced for other reasons first.

[fastbackvr6t]

Just purchased a $12k one owner S4 from a dirtball dealer accross the country. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is??? Upon arrival the engine has a knocking sound only at idle once its warmed up but the car seems to run perfect. Local Audi Dealer is scratching their heads??? Anybody ever hear/see anything like this?

Any advice or hunches are appriciated.

I'm new to this forum. Did you find out what the problem was? My car is 04 and approx 78K and I'm hearing kocking noise as well. It seems like its from intake manifold?

[mlittleton]

OP any update?

[NogaroBlue$4]

I just traded my S4 in today. I knew the engine mounts were shot and I was having serious cylinder misfire and inconsistency and I was still knocking. I had cam adjuster and tensioners replaced on both banks (mine was the 2003.5 S4). Both were major undertakings. I was also getting a slight knock that sounded like it was coming from the exhaust too.

[audi _4 _life]

Best of luck to all of you. This sucks. I have had my car for 3 weeks now. New Clutch all new control arms . But at least it has a new motor.

[buffalony]

I dont know if this was mentioned but could it be a broken guide?

[mlittleton]

I just traded my S4 in today. I knew the engine mounts were shot and I was having serious cylinder misfire and inconsistency and I was still knocking. I had cam adjuster and tensioners replaced on both banks (mine was the 2003.5 S4). Both were major undertakings. I was also getting a slight knock that sounded like it was coming from the exhaust too.

I just traded mine in too. Got a decent price for it and now I can sleep at night. Definitely going to miss this incredible car :( Once the B8's fall in price a bit more I plan to get back into an Audi if possible......sniff....

[Menlo S4]

-So just to state it again it is at very low RPM idle or slightly above
-Seems to be coming from the driver side of the car (not totally postive about that but a quick ear under the hood gave me that idea)
-It is def a 'knock' sound that will hit about 10 times then go away
-once i pull out in first gear it's gone...

The odd thing is that it isnt always happening at a certain RPM, sometimes the car will idle perfectly then this occurs.

This is exactly what just started in my S4 a few days ago, somewhere near cyl 7 or 8.
My happy happy joy joy just went bye bye.

[Menlo S4]

This is exactly what just started in my S4 a few days ago, somewhere near cyl 7 or 8.
My happy happy joy joy just went bye bye.

Guides, tensioners, etc.
They're going to pull the engine. Happy happy joy joy bye bye money money.
Gotta sell the other Audi to pay for it.

[GaryB]

Hi,

Sorry to bring up an old thread but did anyone get any answers to this?

I have a knocking noise from my B6 S4. It doesn't sound chain tensioner related as it's too deep in sound. The noise is there hot or cold and is a very regular noise that rises with revs. It's definately engine and not transmission or clutch related.

It sounds like it's coming from the back of the right hand bank of cylinders. (Back as in near the bulkhead).

Any areas you think I should be investigating?

Thanks

Gary

[0000 V8]

Why did you buy a vehicle across country without a third party inspection?

[rplankenhorn]

Can anyone shed some light on what this noise could be? It only seems to happen after my car has been running for a while. I also have an 04 Audi S4 with 100k miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aTX...ature=youtu.be

[TarlCabot]

Can anyone shed some light on what this noise could be? It only seems to happen after my car has been running for a while. I also have an 04 Audi S4 with 100k miles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aTX...ature=youtu.be

can you video with the hood up and isolate it a little better, that actually sounds like it could be a bad snub and motor mount and something is banging around in the engine bay... or on the front of the motor