Big Port intake mani on small port head

[Militant-Grunt]

Any advantages to this?

I'm still waiting on cash from old car to start build.. So until then I'm squeezing the most out of the K03s.

I have my AEB intake manifold sitting around, would there be any advantage to running it on the AWM motor?

[mike-2ptzero]

Bad idea because you will have a lip that the air is going to be hitting as it tries to enter the head, this is going to cause some turbulence.

[Militant-Grunt]

I see, I guess I have to wait until AEB head goes on.

[Don Supreme]

You have 2 options:

#1 You can port match the intake ports to the AEB intake size (I just had this done to my head)

#2 You can buy the transition gasket from 034. The gasket goes from large port to small port.

Gains -- I am sure you will gain something with a big turbo setup.

[AudiA4_20T]

just get the transition gasket

[mike-2ptzero]

Not going to see any gains with a K03 so why waste the money.

[solowb5]

I don't agree with that at all. I just did this actually and felt a better response. Probally a larger tq gain then a hp gain but, yet still had a positive effect from it. All I had was a 2.5" exhaust with a giac chip.

[Don Supreme]

I don't agree with that at all. I just did this actually and felt a better response. Probally a larger tq gain then a hp gain but, yet still had a positive effect from it. All I had was a 2.5" exhaust with a giac chip.

Did you port match or use the trans gasket?

[audi til I die]

I thought the bigger port mani's only saw gains on higher compression?

[Don Supreme]

I thought the bigger port mani's only saw gains on higher compression?

What??????????? I can't think of any situation in which that would make sense.

How does 'flow' relate to 'compression'?

[mike-2ptzero]

I don't agree with that at all. I just did this actually and felt a better response. Probally a larger tq gain then a hp gain but, yet still had a positive effect from it. All I had was a 2.5" exhaust with a giac chip.

Doesn't exactly make sense seeing that the larger port manifold is going to decrease velocity and it isn't like the small port manifolds is restricting flow when it comes to a K03.


Without data to back up what your saying its pretty much a guessing game or just a placebo effect since you know you made a change.



BTW I said it would be a waste of money seeing that the OP is already going to be installing a AEB head, so whats the point of spending money to run the AEB IM with the small port head for a short period of time.

[Militant-Grunt]

Doesn't exactly make sense seeing that the larger port manifold is going to decrease velocity and it isn't like the small port manifolds is restricting flow when it comes to a K03.


Without data to back up what your saying its pretty much a guessing game or just a placebo effect since you know you made a change.



BTW I said it would be a waste of money seeing that the OP is already going to be installing a AEB head, so whats the point of spending money to run the AEB IM with the small port head for a short period of time.

Yeah.. Pretty much like Mike said, I wanted to try this using no money (well actually a 10 dollar new gasket). I drive 11 second S4's all the time and at the end of the day I have to hop back into my car. Hence any free power is always nice. Eventually I'll get my insurance money and then I really can have fun.

[big_greasy_taco]

Bad idea because you will have a lip that the air is going to be hitting as it tries to enter the head, this is going to cause some turbulence.

Dremel FTW!

[Militant-Grunt]

Dremel FTW!

Can't dremel an engine head...

[redflagquattro]

best way to do this is to use the 034 spacer as stated before. It;s honestly not worth it though..you wont really see any gains unless your BT, plus you will then have to run AEB injjector seats, and the AWM injectors are a pain in the ass to get to fit in the AEB seats, and when they finally do they just keep falling through too far into the seat after about a month or so.

Been there..done it..trust me it's not worth it.

[Militant-Grunt]

best way to do this is to use the 034 spacer as stated before. It;s honestly not worth it though..you wont really see any gains unless your BT, plus you will then have to run AEB injjector seats, and the AWM injectors are a pain in the ass to get to fit in the AEB seats, and when they finally do they just keep falling through too far into the seat after about a month or so.

Been there..done it..trust me it's not worth it.

Thanks for the heads up

[solowb5]

That's why you use AEB injectors.

[Don Supreme]

That's why you use AEB injectors.

Really -

So what do you do when you are running an aftermarket injectors i.e. Siemens 630cc? Its all the same.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Doesn't exactly make sense seeing that the larger port manifold is going to decrease velocity and it isn't like the small port manifolds is restricting flow when it comes to a K03.

Mike you are assuming that the stock turbocharger flows about as much as a ceiling fan....

Large port manifold + 034 phenolic spacer + small port cylinder head + 65mm DBC throttle body = 7-8whp gain

BTDT.
Mr.Pilat hit me up.

[redflagquattro]

That's why you use AEB injectors.

AEB injectors are smaller then AWM injectors..you would be putting smaller injectors on a car that came stock eqipped with larger ones.

[mike-2ptzero]

Mike you are assuming that the stock turbocharger flows about as much as a ceiling fan....

Large port manifold + 034 phenolic spacer + small port cylinder head + 65mm DBC throttle body = 7-8whp gain

BTDT.
Mr.Pilat hit me up.

LOL. Yes because I ran 14.29 with the air flow of a ceiling fan.

[Wizard-of-OD]

LOL. Yes because I ran 14.29 with the air flow of a ceiling fan.

Mike
bro,it does not matter what you ran.The question was X and you answered to Y,not to X.
The larger runner diameter & plenum (yes AEB plenum is slightly larger) coupled with a larger opening throttle body will see gains on even a stock turbocharger.

[mike-2ptzero]

Is that why all of the K03/K04 setups on the A4 1.8t seems to make more power on the dbw cars with the small port heads vs the dbw cars with the AEB head?


I dont see how going with a manifold with a larger runner is going to help when the restriction is still going to be the small port on the head.

BTW X never included a larger throttle body so your answer doesn't exactly go with the question.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Is that why all of the K03/K04 setups on the A4 1.8t seems to make more power on the dbw cars with the small port heads vs the dbw cars with the AEB head?


I dont see how going with a manifold with a larger runner is going to help when the restriction is still going to be the small port on the head.

BTW X never included a larger throttle body so your answer doesn't exactly go with the question.

There are other factors involved such as different motronic systems ,etc
but essentially the larger port runners do aid with an increase in power.
Not much more to it really.

[dougyfresh]

Any advantages to this?

I'm still waiting on cash from old car to start build.. So until then I'm squeezing the most out of the K03s.

I have my AEB intake manifold sitting around, would there be any advantage to running it on the AWM motor?

I, personally, would sit on the intake manifold until the funding arrives to do everything at once. Why spend unnecessary money now that won't be directly applied to your ultimate goal? (in reference to a transition gasket)

[mike-2ptzero]

There are other factors involved such as different motronic systems ,etc
but essentially the larger port runners do aid with an increase in power.
Not much more to it really.

I dont see how seeing that the restiction is till going to be the port in the head.

Garden hose or fire hose, the same amount of water is going to get thru a dime size hole if the pressure is the same with both hoses.

[Wizard-of-OD]

I dont see how seeing that the restiction is till going to be the port in the head.

Garden hose or fire hose, the same amount of water is going to get thru a dime size hole if the pressure is the same with both hoses.

Mike do you have an Engineering degree? Before you decide to continue let us just leave this topic where it is.

[Poopie]

Mike do you have an Engineering degree? Before you decide to continue let us just leave this topic where it is.

I agree with Mike on that one as far as comparing port sizes. The ports on an small port head will just increase the air's velocity but drop in pressure. In theory it should move the same amount of air.

[Wizard-of-OD]

I agree with Mike on that one as far as comparing port sizes. The ports on an small port head will just increase the air's velocity but drop in pressure. In theory it should move the same amount of air.

If that were the case then we wouldnt need larger plenum manifolds or larger port cylinder heads.

[mike-2ptzero]

If that were the case then we wouldnt need larger plenum manifolds or larger port cylinder heads.

We do but only when we reach a point where we are trying to force more air in with a big ass turbo. But at this point we are talking about the tiny K03.

If the small port head and IM were a huge restriction for the tiny K03 the AEB cars would make more power then the 2000+ cars, but the fact is they dont.

[Poopie]

If that were the case then we wouldnt need larger plenum manifolds or larger port cylinder heads.

well going with a big port head of course you will incread flow. You are only as strong as your weekest link. You wouldn't run an AEB head on a small port manifold would you?

[Don Supreme]

^ many people have and 034 has proven that it causes a slight power loss.

[Wizard-of-OD]

We do but only when we reach a point where we are trying to force more air in with a big ass turbo. But at this point we are talking about the tiny K03.

If the small port head and IM were a huge restriction for the tiny K03 the AEB cars would make more power then the 2000+ cars, but the fact is they dont.

Again,
Other factors come into play.Nothing to do with the intake manifold or port size.
This is like beating a dead horse.Enjoy

[B5A4Kevin]

i think i am also gonna go with mike on this one. it is the same principle as the variable runner length intake manifolds on the 3.0, 4.2, and 2.0tfsi. longer, smaller diameter runners are best for low end torque while short, large diameter (aeb head and manifold) are much better suited for high rpm and cfm's (BT+). the same dynamic flow principle is demonstrated in exhaust manifolds/headers. 800hp v8 is gonna have larger shorter headers (along with different merge collectors) when compared to a 1.6L NA honda engine. the system is only as strong as its weakest link or highest restriction, but i think for a k03, the turbo itself hinders the engine more than the head and IM do. Also, as stated previously, AEB IM on AWM head will upset the airflow without a stepped spacer. IMO just hold off on it till you get the head.

[Wizard-of-OD]

it is the same principle as the variable runner length intake manifolds on the 3.0, 4.2, and 2.0tfsi. longer, smaller diameter runners are best for low end torque while short, large diameter (aeb head and manifold) are much better suited for high rpm and cfm's (BT+).

Apples to oranges comparison...
Runner length and runner diameter are 2 different factors that come into play.The length is remaining the same in this scenario hence being the constant,it is just the diameter that we are changing.The intake valve diameter is not changing,neither the shape of the port @ the base of the head NOR the flow of air into the engine.

Now do not think I am here to put you down and say "whatever I say is gold so believe it" and I am not trying to sound like a dick but most of you are posting based on theories.I am trying my best to keep this conversation simple and straight to the point of answering the OP's questions.
Of course putting the AEB manifold on the small port cylinder head will hurt rather than help performance as you are introducing turbulence into the system.Turbulence that was not there before ,however,I allready stated back on page 1 the following.

Large port manifold + 034 phenolic spacer + small port cylinder head + 65mm DBC throttle body = 7-8whp gain

Hope that helps.

[mike-2ptzero]

But the OP is not asking about going with a larger throttle body, he is still going to be DBW.

He is asking what would he gain by going large port + spacer + small port head. I think that gain is going to be zero.

[Militant-Grunt]

But the OP is not asking about going with a larger throttle body, he is still going to be DBW.

He is asking what would he gain by going large port + spacer + small port head. I think that gain is going to be zero.

That was the goal, Also too cheap to get the spacer. Rather just wait for the AEB head.
Though good points have been made, great for reference for anyone else as I am sure I wasn't the only one wondering this.

[Goody_Seven]

Bolt the intake to the head and throw it on a flowbench. You will find the large intake, small head will outflow the small intake, small head. Flow at the valves will be increased by using a larger intake despite the head being smaller. I agree with ISSAM there will be a gain, but I also agree with mike, that with a K03 the gain will be small.

[solowb5]

Looks like Issam supplied the facts that it does make a difference. I knew my ass dyno was fuctioning properly.

[Toyotatech]

The 7-8 hp is from the throttle body. You should have your ass checked.