Ceramic Brakes

[50CalRS4]

Hi fellow Audi drivers

My RS4 now has 35000 miles down and I'm slowly but surely planning to change my current brakes and upgrade to some ceramic brakes on my car.

The factors that speak for a ceramic brake are: Less weight, less unsprung weight, less rotational inertia at the points were it counts, the outer edges of the brakes, less fading, more heat resistance, less brake dust, better acceleration, better handling, better feel, better stopping power and a much longer 120000+ miles lifetime.

The manufacturer I am looking to buy these from says that if the brakes outlive the car, you can just go ahead and swap them onto your next car. All you need to do is swap the disc hat for the assembly, eh voila, you've got the ceramics on your new car. The manufacturer will provide the new disc hat for any audi model you need.


The factor which isn't so nice about the ceramic brakes, is that they cost alot The ones from Audi for example, for the RS4 cost arround 8500 Euros in Europe. The R8 ones cost arround 9000-10000 Euros. Over here they go for way above 10000 $ just for the front ones. In Europe, there is some crtiticism regarding the price/ performance comparrison of the OEM kits that Audi has to offer.

The manufacturer I'm planing to buy the brakes from is known very well among European performance car forums and the sports car press.

They get very good ratings among the users.

Their brakes are not only just as good if not even better, their prices are also lower than Audis OEM ceramic brakes. For Audis brakes you mainly pay for the OEM Tag and the name.

For a set of two 370mm X 35mm front discs including two 4 piston calipers the price is still above 7200 $. Alot lower than Audis brakes, yet still alot of money to me.

I went ahead and tried to aproach them, get them to move twoards a lower price. I asked them if and how it would be possible to get a better price on these very cool brakes.

The good old joint venture / group buy method came into my mind. So, my point is: I want some of these brakes. Basically can't get any better than these. I would like to see if there would be the possibility of a group buy discount.

Before I go ahead and open a group by thread, in the group buy section I just wanted to feel through if anyone here would be interested in a set of these and how meany would be interested. If we get 10 people together we will be able to drop the price significantly.

You can join with any Audi Model: A4, S4, RS4, A5, S5, A6, S6, A8, S8, TT & R8. Discs and disc hats are available for all Audi models.

Let me know and I'll try to form a group in the "Group Buy" section including all information about the manufacturer, the seller and order details.

I sure hope some of you guys are looking for some new brakes aswell because I really want these, "bad"!. I have confidence that we can get a good price for this type of braking league.

[Ill 3.0]

what would be the weight/performance benefit over say Alcon or Brembo setups that would cost half as much as this other manufacturer?

[Yessir Man]

they're ceramic
and they last a lifetime

[CHECKERED]

Ceramic brakes need to heat up first before they provide maximum friction.

So imagine your cruising down the freeway on a cold night and the drunk driver in front of you looses control and starts spinning, you slam on your brakes…but what is this…you hardly get any friction and rear end the car in front and DIE…

Ok cool story, but ceramic brakes are better for the track not the street

[50CalRS4]

Ceramic brakes need to heat up first before they provide maximum friction.

So imagine your cruising down the freeway on a cold night and the drunk driver in front of you looses control and starts spinning, you slam on your brakes…but what is this…you hardly get any friction and rear end the car in front and DIE…

Ok cool story, but ceramic brakes are better for the track not the street

The pad and disc combination does not require long driving to brake properly. These brakes are designed for street use on German Autobahns in cold climate at 0 speed limit. If these brakes were a risk, the manufacturer wouldn't get the green light to sell and install them from the technical inspection office called TÜV. If something doesn't pass TÜV in Germany, it is not allowed to be sold. Ask HRE wheels, they should know. They had to pay the flight for a TÜV engineer to inspect their production quality and standards. Then they had to provide several sets for rigourous testing and destruction. Now they also have a TÜV certificate. Visit HRE's site and you will see. But thats off topic.

[ginkof]

good luck to you on this one! When the stoptech group buy came around with pretty good prices only 7 people were a part of that on this forum. Not to put down the audizine crew, but to get 10 people to buy a bbk is going to take a lot of time from your end; including going out to other forums and convincing any people who are even slightly interested in this product to buy it.

But to an optimistic start, for a GB of 10+ what price did they give you?

[50CalRS4]

what would be the weight/performance benefit over say Alcon or Brembo setups that would cost half as much as this other manufacturer?

If we get a group together in order to purchase these, we will get a very good price of well below 6000 $. A very good price for ceramic brakes that is. Ceramic brakes just don't come cheaper if you want quality that has been rigourously tested and is certified. Of course some cheap chinese imitations, never tested, might come cheaper one of these days. But I'm sure noone would want those due to safety and quality issues.

German products basically are the best. Audi, BMW, Porsche, VW, Mercedes are proof for the quality of german engineering and standards.

The advantages: You won't have to buy another set for your car again. You'll have 50% weight savings oposed to iron discs. 380mm iron discs weigh in at 14-16 pounds. These weigh in at 7-9 pounds including the disc hat.

The disc alone without the hat is even less. It's crazy to hold one of the disc in your hands. The size of the disc would lead you to think it's heavy as disc usally are. These feel like your holding a piece of plaster or plastic. I was amazed.

Longivity of the brakes is 100000+ miles only the pads are renewed every now and then. Braking performance is top. Shorter braking distance with less fade.

If you think about it you could go through 2-3 sets for a car. Especially for an RS4. With 2-3 sets you'll end up at the same amount of money spent but with more weight on your car throughout the whole process.

All that convinces me to prefer these brakes over anything else that would be applicable for my RS4.

[50CalRS4]

good luck to you on this one! When the stoptech group buy came around with pretty good prices only 7 people were a part of that on this forum. Not to put down the audizine crew, but to get 10 people to buy a bbk is going to take a lot of time from your end; including going out to other forums and convincing any people who are even slightly interested in this product to buy it.

But to an optimistic start, for a GB of 10+ what price did they give you?

5300$ for the whole front brake kit including: two 370mm X 35mm disc, hats, 4 piston calipers and special pads for everyday use in combination with the ceramic disc.

When I think about mine almost beeing metal rubbing on medal after 35000 miles and the dust, all the time, the squeeking, the weight and the next purchase after another 35000-40000 miles, I do think that that price is a pretty good deal.

Another OEM RS4 disc set with pads will throw me back atleast 2000 -2500$ on Ebay.

[Ill 3.0]

You'll have 50% weight savings oposed to iron discs. 380mm iron discs weigh in at 14-16 pounds. These weigh in at 7-9 pounds including the disc hat.

That is pretty substantial weight savings. I'm not sure how important the aspect of longevity factors in since Brembo or Alcon, etc. calipers will last a pretty long time too, and I could see it being a lot more trouble than just "oh just swap them onto your next car" by finding new brackets that fit etc. But otherwise sounds like a great opportunity. If I had the money, 6k seems like a great deal. Good luck.

[Howard Hughes]

So you want people to be part of a group buy on 6000 to 7000 dollar brakes with a nameless manufacturer?

[50CalRS4]

So you want people to be part of a group buy on 6000 to 7000 dollar brakes with a nameless manufacturer?

1.) It's 5300$ for the whole set not 6000-7000$.
2.) Noone will be sending me any money, they will get the contact info of the licensed retailer for the manufacturer.
3.) It's not a nameless manufacturer, it's one of the top ones on the European market. The only thing is, if I name the manufacturer now,not knowing if 10 people would be interested, all hell could brake loose for the retailer who is giving us such discounts. He could get in trouble with the manufacturer. They have distribution area protection and other protectionist policies. Just like Porsche has for their dealerships. Porsche doesn't want an NY Porsche dealer to be selling dozens of new porsche cars in the LA Porsche dealers area? Can you fallow?

Dealerships can get penalties or even canceled / revoked dealership licenses for that. So please feel with the retailer and the good offer not with prejudices.

[V-8]

So you want people to be part of a group buy on 6000 to 7000 dollar brakes with a nameless manufacturer?

Maybe it's Movit. I like their setup:

[V-8]

.... all hell could brake loose ....

That's a good one.

[50CalRS4]

That's a good one.

He He. Yeap it will brake...

Serious, the retailer told me not to shout it from the roof top. He seemed to be a bit concerned and told me about the area protection policies and so forth. He doesn't know I'm trying to gather the group in a world wide public forum. I don't want to loose the offer over something like that.

[50CalRS4]

The way things look and sound in this forum it could really be hopeless to hope for a gathering of a willing group. Too bad. It would be a great deal for some really, really awesome brakes.

Just look at the picture. Don't they look awesome?

[KryptoniK]

wow... coincidental or what? I've been looking into this for the past 2 weeks. I've read everything about this setup, and I was actually considering the Movit setup. The main reason would be for weight savings where it counts.

Only thing holding me back is cost. Haven't seen any official pricing on carbon ceramic setups except for the OEM cermaic brakes for the RS4... which are $15,000.00 for only the front.

Let me know, I might be interested!

[50CalRS4]

wow... coincidental or what? I've been looking into this for the past 2 weeks. I've read everything about this setup, and I was actually considering the Movit setup. The main reason would be for weight savings where it counts.

Only thing holding me back is cost. Haven't seen any official pricing on carbon ceramic setups except for the OEM cermaic brakes for the RS4... which are $15,000.00 for only the front.

Let me know, I might be interested!

That would be two that are interested. So with me it's three.

[biffturkle]

The pad and disc combination does not require long driving to brake properly. These brakes are designed for street use on German Autobahns in cold climate at 0 speed limit. If these brakes were a risk, the manufacturer wouldn't get the green light to sell and install them from the technical inspection office called TÜV. If something doesn't pass TÜV in Germany, it is not allowed to be sold. Ask HRE wheels, they should know. They had to pay the flight for a TÜV engineer to inspect their production quality and standards. Then they had to provide several sets for rigourous testing and destruction. Now they also have a TÜV certificate. Visit HRE's site and you will see. But thats off topic.

Checkered, 50Cal is correct about the warm up. I believe you might be referring to the carbon-carbon brakes used on F1 cars. Those need to warm up the 1900C to be effective.

[Cargo8]

good luck with this, cool idea and that is substantial savings

[BremboGuy]

Is it the optional OEM Carbon Ceramic brakes made for the RS4, or an aftermarket company putting an upgrade kit together?

There's very few companies who actually manufacture carbon ceramic discs, and NONE of these companies make vehicle specific aftermarket kits. Because of that, I would be very concerned about the R&D, engineering, and testing that are going into it. Carbon Ceramic technology is still new to OEM manufactures, and definitely hasn't proven itself to have the versatility and functionality to make it a viable aftermarket option just yet.

[50CalRS4]

good luck with this, cool idea and that is substantial savings

Thanks

[50CalRS4]

Is it the optional OEM Carbon Ceramic brakes made for the RS4, or an aftermarket company putting an upgrade kit together?

There's very few companies who actually manufacture carbon ceramic discs, and NONE of these companies make vehicle specific aftermarket kits.
I would be very concerned about the R&D, engineering, and testing of the products. Carbon Ceramic technology is still new to OEM manufactures, and definitely hasn't proven itself to have the versatility and functionality to make it a viable aftermarket option just yet.

1.) No. Sorry, they aren't Audi OEM ceramic brakes. It isn't possible to get them at that price.

2.) They are from a leading aftermarket manufacturer of the industry. They do have kits available for most high class German cars.

3.) I mentioned that they have a TÜV certificate for their brakes. Please...Germany is no socalled banana state. We are talking about some of the highest, most stringent restrictions and regulations for technology in the world. The US doesn't even have a TÜV let alone an Autobahn were Autos are allowed to drive as fast as they go. Alot of cars on US roads are actually not safe to use and yet are driving on our roads because there is no TÜV. If products pass TÜV they are good and they are safe, 100%.

4.)Meany Audi drivers throughout the World are satisfied with the brakes. The tesing took several years before the product was declared safe, reliable, of high quality and ready to qualify for TÜV. The manufacturer performed track and road tests for hundred thousands - millions of miles. They had to garantee that each produced set of brakes, each set of rotors equals the previous one. Fluctuations in the production process aren't tolerated by the TÜV.

5.)Sorry to disapoint you, but Carbon Ceramic brakes have been sold in Germany and Europe since the late 90's and have been researched since the late 80's. Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche, Audi and a few after market brake manufacturers all have the knowledge to produce a quality product by now.
Germanys technical universities teach their students how to do that.

So why the scepticism and why all these guys, hopping in my post and trying to pull down the product with negative, unproven, prejudice rumors....

[BremboGuy]

I wasn't trying to make "negative, unproven, prejudice rumors.... , I'm simply stating my curiosity based on the knowledge I have of the braking industry, and carbon ceramic technology.

1.)

5.)Sorry to disapoint you, but Carbon Ceramic brakes have been sold in Germany and Europe since the late 90's and have been researched since the late 80's. Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche, Audi and a few after market brake manufacturers all have the knowledge to produce a quality product by now.
Germanys technical universities teach their students how to do that.

None of those auto manufacturers you named produce their own braking systems.
-Ferrari / Mercedes use a CCM system provided solely by Brembo.
-Porsche / Audi use a system that is provided by both Brembo (for calipers) and SGL Group (for discs).

In your defense, Porsche was a partner with SGL Group on the development of the PCCB disc, and Daimler (Mercedes-benz cars) is a partner with Brembo Ceramic Brake Sytems S.p.A for development and manufacturing of Brembo's CCM technology. That may have created some of the confusion, but as I stated before, there are very few manufacturers of carbon ceramic braking components in this world. Few enough to know the current offerings from each company with regards to who is providing what, and to who they are providing it.

Beyond that there are a small number of aftermarket brake kit suppliers, with an even smaller number for those who actually manufacture their own products. So when you make a claim about a product that is currently available for aftermarket consumption, from a reputable "manufacturer", with claimed TUV approval, significant R&D and testing, and a price point that is bordering "too good to be true", it feel it warrants curiosity.

I am still curious about the TUV certification.
Are you saying that this company has obtained TUV approval with past products, or that they currently have TUV approval with regards to their carbon ceramic brake systems? And, is the TUV approval on he system as a whole, or just on some of the individual components that comprise an entire system?

[50CalRS4]

I wasn't trying to make "negative, unproven, prejudice rumors.... , I'm simply stating my curiosity based on the knowledge I have of the braking industry, and carbon ceramic technology.



None of those auto manufacturers you named produce their own braking systems.
-Ferrari / Mercedes use a CCM system provided solely by Brembo.
-Porsche / Audi use a system that is provided by both Brembo (for calipers) and SGL Group (for discs).

In your defense, Porsche was a partner with SGL Group on the development of the PCCB disc, and Daimler (Mercedes-benz cars) is a partner with Brembo Ceramic Brake Sytems S.p.A for development and manufacturing of Brembo's CCM technology. That may have created some of the confusion, but as I stated before, there are very few manufacturers of carbon ceramic braking components in this world. Few enough to know the current offerings from each company with regards to who is providing what, and to who they are providing it.

Beyond that there are a small number of aftermarket brake kit suppliers, with an even smaller number for those who actually manufacture their own products. So when you make a claim about a product that is currently available for aftermarket consumption, from a reputable "manufacturer", with claimed TUV approval, significant R&D and testing, and a price point that is bordering "too good to be true", it feel it warrants curiosity.

I am still curious about the TUV certification.
Are you saying that this company has obtained TUV approval with past products, or that they currently have TUV approval with regards to their carbon ceramic brake systems? And, is the TUV approval on he system as a whole, or just on some of the individual components that comprise an entire system?

Ok. Sorry I didn't want to get offending or acusing in any way. Just trying to keep my thread down to the subject and of course eventually would like to see it fruit, for me and the other weight saving tuning, enthusiastic fellows who want a good deal on some good brakes.

I know Brembo produces the Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz brakes in conjunktion with the two manufacturers. SGL Carbon in Wiesbaden Germany is responsible for the Production of the Porsche and Audi discs. Correct. SGL also produces composite parts for Boeing and high speed Train Manufacturers. Unlike Brembo, SGL only produces brakes for Porsche and Audi. They don't offer aftermarket kits for the end consumer or sell to final consumers or retailers. Brembo sells aftermarket products for the final customer. Mostly slotted iron brake rotors though. Last time I've looked on the Brembo product sight, their listings were a bit confusing and I could not find any ceramic brakes. You sell or distribute Brembo? Asking because of your Audizine name.

Anyways, in order to get product licensing for a technical item in Germany, no mather what....every product which is meant to be sold and used by final consumers has to meet TÜV standars. If it doesn't meet the standards or hasn't been certified / licensed, one has no legal allowance to use it within the state of Germany.

If one secretly uses an unlicensed product, for example if one used HRE wheels on their car before HRE wheels had the certification and cops would pull that person over in a routine traffic controle, the person would have to pay a large fine and cash a few points on their driving account.
Even worse if the car would drive on the Autobahn and get involved in an accident, even if the wheels didn't have anything to do with the accident...once the investigating officials and insurance surveyors find out the wheels didn't have TÜV the owner of the wheels loses all coverage and finds himself sitting on a nice pile of debt.

Thats how strict the German technical surveilance system works. Home made tuning, NOS systems, hydraulics, low riders, neon lights underneath your car on public roads and so on.....All that is illegal in Germany. Doesn't meet TÜV traffic and road safety requirements. A bunch of bucket seats sold on the the american market, from all the numerous manufacturers, would never be allowed in Germany. The quality is just too poor. I've seen comparison tests on those specific items.

To finalize and shorten the answer, every part and every product from the manufacturer has to pass rigourous testing and then be certified.

[RAudi Driver]

Pics

[B18b1ex]

Maybe a little off you topic, but do you know if this company makes a ceramic disc that could replace the disc on some of the current Audi BBKs? Like say a 345 0r 355 disc?

[Beelzeebub]

Ceramic brakes need to heat up first before they provide maximum friction.

So imagine your cruising down the freeway on a cold night and the drunk driver in front of you looses control and starts spinning, you slam on your brakes…but what is this…you hardly get any friction and rear end the car in front and DIE…

Ok cool story, but ceramic brakes are better for the track not the street

+1.

[Beelzeebub]

The pad and disc combination does not require long driving to brake properly. These brakes are designed for street use on German Autobahns in cold climate at 0 speed limit. If these brakes were a risk, the manufacturer wouldn't get the green light to sell and install them from the technical inspection office called TÜV. If something doesn't pass TÜV in Germany, it is not allowed to be sold. Ask HRE wheels, they should know. They had to pay the flight for a TÜV engineer to inspect their production quality and standards. Then they had to provide several sets for rigourous testing and destruction. Now they also have a TÜV certificate. Visit HRE's site and you will see. But thats off topic.

Well your logic doesnt make sense. you are resting your case on TUV. Well, your car isnt exactly a super car on the level of a Veyron, a Mclaren F1, or a Ferrari Enzo. those cars are so powerful that they will produce the heat needed by ceramic brakes to properly funciton on the streets.

[BremboGuy]

I think you guys are mixing up the different technologies a slight bit.

Carbon/Ceramic is a very different make up than Carbon/Carbon.
The introduction of ceramics into the discs composition, combined with the proper pad compound, allows the system to work at ambient temperatures for daily driving in various types of climates.

Carbon/Carbon is what is currently in use in professional racing series such as Formula1 and ALMS. This consists of a carbon disc with a carbon pad, and is the system that you are referring to when higher temperatures are required to begin to create friction.

The advancements in carbon/ceramic technology is what has allowed companies like Brembo and SGL to develop and supply these systems to the OEM market.
In 2002 the Ferrari ENZO was the first production vehicle to employ the Carbon/Ceramic technology.
As of 2009 every Ferrari automobile will be exclusively using Brembo's CCM brakes.
And as of 2008 every Porsche model (with the exception of the Cayenne) has an option for PCCB's.

The technology has made huge leaps in functionality since 2002 which has allowed for OEM production opportunities, but at the same time it does lack some of the versatility that is needed for it to become a viable option for aftermarket use. The amount of R&D and testing that goes into each individual vehicle model is tremendous, and in the end you get a system that will only work properly on the vehicle it was intended for. Minor variances in horsepower, vehicle weight, tire & wheel sizes, can all have a dramatic effect on the performance and longevity of the discs and pads. This does not YET allow for the versatility needed to be properly adapted to a production vehicle it was not intended for, since the setup up of each individual vehicle can vary so dramatically from one car to the next.

There is a small chance that this new company has made advancements with the technology to a point where they may feel comfortable producing a more "universal" type system that can work on a wide range of vehicle setups. I just need to see it to believe it. And I'd rather see it in the form of a press release, with a description of the R&D, actual testing examples, and real world long term use, before I can get on board.

[50CalRS4]

Well your logic doesnt make sense. you are resting your case on TUV. Well, your car isnt exactly a super car on the level of a Veyron, a Mclaren F1, or a Ferrari Enzo. those cars are so powerful that they will produce the heat needed by ceramic brakes to properly funciton on the streets.

Oh, man...

I don't really understand the sence of technically unqualified people, who don't know much about ceramic brakes, coming in this thread...and starting useless discussions. If you would read my first post carefully it says: "potentially interested people, for a group buy" Not negative campaign running debaters who know it all, did it all, and been there all.....

I was allowed to test drive a vehicle with those brakes installed from a cold start and they worked just fine. The exaggeration from the user "Checkered" "of these brakes driven from a cold start, a drunken driver beeing infront of one and one not beeing able to stop in time, rear ending him and dying....man man. No comment on that sorry.

Again I've test driven a RS4 with the damn brakes from a cold start, I even was told to touch the damn discs before I got in to drive, and I was amazed by the feel and the performance. I couldn't beleive the difference, that those couple of pounds made. It completely convinced me to try to get one of these sets once my current brakes are ready to be tossed....

Go ahead and continue this unknowing debate.....enjoy it....say nay ....over and over again....I say jay and will get myself a set of these somehow.

Might be that the nay sayers in here sofar, are just jelious and set themselves the mission to try and spoil the whole idea...Could I be right???

I don't need an answer....I know I am right..

Have fun beeing jelious of some dudes that want to spend 5000+ on some awesome brakes, that are definatly worth it, but have fun doing that somewhere else please. I would really apreciate it.

[40valve]

I bet someone is going to flame you for spelling errors just because ...

Anyway, I wish I can afford stuff like that but I say godspeed my friend if you can. If you do get them make sure you post a nice review with photos.

[50CalRS4]

I bet someone is going to flame you for spelling errors just because ...

Anyway, I wish I can afford stuff like that but I say godspeed my friend if you can. If you do get them make sure you post a nice review with photos.

Spelling errors? I'm not here to be spelling champion, sorry for that too...New debates about everything and anything huh?? A forum of debaters...wow...Hehe

I didn't grow up here in the US. So logically I also didn't go to school here..I grew up in Europe. Went to a European school..
Thats why my spelling may not be perfect, but it sure damn is enough to do the job and bring across some points.

Lets see the spelling champs, spell not even one word in my language....

[B18b1ex]

Maybe a little off you topic, but do you know if this company makes a ceramic disc that could replace the disc on some of the current Audi BBKs? Like say a 345 0r 355 disc?

Can someone answer my question, please?

[50CalRS4]

Can someone answer my question, please?

K, I'll try...
Uhmm, so you have a smaller dimensioned brake disc, like a 345 or 355 ?

They have 342 discs/ rotors which would be the replacing size for the 345-355 discs. What counts are the outer dimensions in regards to your wheels. If you have 16" or 17" wheels they obviously won't fit 370mm brake discs. If you have 345-355's you might want to go with the 342's. If you'd rather have the 370's you'd have to find out if your wheels would fit those first.

the 342's cost even less and have been mounted on the Golf MK V GT in Europe. They also weigh even less, due to the smaller size, and therefor deliver even better weight savings. Yet,for their size, they have great stopping performances aswell.

[BremboGuy]

Can someone answer my question, please?

Unfortunately there is no one that I know of.
But that apparantely doesn't include the company that 50CalRS4 is working with

Again, I would have to advise against it.
The coefficient of friction created with a carbon ceramic system is very different than what is produced with a traditional cast iron disc. That directly affects brake bias as well as pedal feel and modulation in a very negative way.

Example:
Two Porsche cars...both with identical diameter discs, (1) being carbon ceramic & (1) being cast iron.
each one uses drastically different values for piston area. (the calipers are different)

Most cars that were properly developed to run a carbon ceramic system also have different master cylinders, as well as dramatically different ABS programing.

Sorry to always be the bearer of bad news.
Brakes are the only significant safety item that in your vehicle that you have control over and you definitely do not want to compromise that with an upgrade that is not proper.

[OneFastBMW]

The pad and disc combination does not require long driving to brake properly. These brakes are designed for street use on German Autobahns in cold climate at 0 speed limit. If these brakes were a risk, the manufacturer wouldn't get the green light to sell and install them from the technical inspection office called TÜV. If something doesn't pass TÜV in Germany, it is not allowed to be sold. Ask HRE wheels, they should know. They had to pay the flight for a TÜV engineer to inspect their production quality and standards. Then they had to provide several sets for rigourous testing and destruction. Now they also have a TÜV certificate. Visit HRE's site and you will see. But thats off topic.

This is correct. Ceramic brakes will just almost identical to similar sized steel rotors. However, as temperatures increase (temps of the brakes, not ambient) the ceramics improve where the steels start to fade.

Personally, a Brembo GTR kit will stop better and is lighter than the OEM Ceramics and will cost less per mile.

[B18b1ex]

K, I'll try...
Uhmm, so you have a smaller dimensioned brake disc, like a 345 or 355 ?

They have 342 discs/ rotors which would be the replacing size for the 345-355 discs. What counts are the outer dimensions in regards to your wheels. If you have 16" or 17" wheels they obviously won't fit 370mm brake discs. If you have 345-355's you might want to go with the 342's. If you'd rather have the 370's you'd have to find out if your wheels would fit those first.

the 342's cost even less and have been mounted on the Golf MK V GT in Europe. They also weigh even less, due to the smaller size, and therefor deliver even better weight savings. Yet,for their size, they have great stopping performances aswell.

I have a Brembo GT kit now, and was wondering about the weight savings over those discs, the difference between the lit and stock is great but more weight loss would be awesome! Can you pm me the cost of the discs while I look into the safety aspects. Thanks

[B18b1ex]

Unfortunately there is no one that I know of.
But that apparantely doesn't include the company that 50CalRS4 is working with

Again, I would have to advise against it.
The coefficient of friction created with a carbon ceramic system is very different than what is produced with a traditional cast iron disc. That directly affects brake bias as well as pedal feel and modulation in a very negative way.

Example:
Two Porsche cars...both with identical diameter discs, (1) being carbon ceramic & (1) being cast iron.
each one uses drastically different values for piston area. (the calipers are different)

Most cars that were properly developed to run a carbon ceramic system also have different master cylinders, as well as dramatically different ABS programing.

Sorry to always be the bearer of bad news.
Brakes are the only significant safety item that in your vehicle that you have control over and you definitely do not want to compromise that with an upgrade that is not proper.

So are the pistons bigger or smaller between Cast iron calipers and the Ceramic ones. The ABS did not seem to be affected by the upgrade from stock to new calipers, what would change because of the disc and it's friction coefficient?

[B18b1ex]

One more thing, are the calipers different on the RS4's with the ceramic discs, because the appear to be the same.

[50CalRS4]

Calipers for the ceramic RS4 brakes are a bit different that the stock ones, so are the pads. The pads are specially formulated to function in conjunction with the ceramic discs. That way you will have 40-42 meter stops with cold OEM ceramics and 36-38 meters with warm ones. 40-42 is safe and a distance that normal good cars like a VW Passat or a Golf acomplish. 36-38m is top performance. The ceramics, I'm looking to buy, perform at 95% when cold, at zero degrees fahrenheit and 100% at 32 degrees fahrenheit.

The piston sizes are similar to those of iron ones. ABS programming has to be adjusted for the OEM Ceramic brakes for the RS4. The instruction CD for mechanics is inclduded in the OEM ceramic disc package. The after market brakes material formulation of the pads and the discs have been adjusted, through lots of testing and reformulating the material mix, to have similar friction as iron brakes, thus making ABS adjustments unnecessary.