Considerng A4 over TL

[Cecil]

Hello Audi Members. I currently drive an '06 TL 6 speed with Nav. I'm planning on a new car early next year. I have never owned an Audi before but have had other German cars . The new '09 A4 2.0t as caught my eye. The new '09 TL not really but if I went with the TL it would be the 3.7L TL SH-AWD with nav. In the A4 I was looking at the premium plus package, nav and 18" sport package. May consider the 6 speed when it comes out but I do like paddle shifters much better than tiptronic so this is up in the air. How is the auto vs. a manual in an Audi. The TL is very smooth. My BMW's were not as good IMO.

My last 3 cars have been 1-6's and the current v-6 3.2. I have not driven the audi yet but plan to in the next week. Can I get some feedback on the 2.0t and how it compares to a v-6. The torque numbers look great but will it loose its steam after a certain rpm with other v-6's laughing as you blow your load . Can anyone comment on the quality of Audi. I have not really considered them in the past based mainly on what I heard about reliability not being that great. I generally get rid of my cars within 3 years but I don't like my local Audi dealer so I would only use them for warranty work but hope that there is not a lot of that that goes on anyways.

How about handling, luxuriousness, quietness of the 2.0t when getting up to speed. I drove a Mazda 6 i Grand Touring 4 cyl and could not stand the engine noise/whine. Is this just something you have to expect in a 4 cyl? Any input on the pluses/minuses of the a4 2.0t and either the 2006 TL or maybe even the 2009 TL is very welcome. Thank you for your time.

[edwardabodnar]

on all levels i feelt he the audi tosps the TL. efficiency, handling, style, class, looks. You give up a little on the 0-60....but you get so much more in the audi. I have had a 96 millenia an 01 acura cl and now the audi which i have kept the longest. i would be happy driving this class of car for the rest of my days. I am actually waiting for the the new RS4 as my next vehicle.

[Jibberific]

How about handling, luxuriousness, quietness of the 2.0t when getting up to speed. I drove a Mazda 6 i Grand Touring 4 cyl and could not stand the engine noise/whine. Is this just something you have to expect in a 4 cyl?

Absolutely not. With the windows up it will be like a tomb inside the car. The whine you refer to is strictly a japanese phenomenon and the new A4 rides and sounds very solid. I have driven many TLs, TSXs, and CLs and i could not escape the "honda" feeling. The A4 will be a serious luxury, handling, and comfort upgrade for you.

[burner799]

you don't get as much for your money in the a4. you are stepping down from a v6 to a four banger and are going to lose a good deal of amenities for the same price along the way. The new tl is actually really sick and the extended warranty/ service plan on it is so cheap. The nav in the acura and bluetooth is a lot better too. We test drove a3's and a4's before getting our TL a year ago and it just was not worth it.

[khmerguy978]

i have the 2009 a4, prestige package. got it because i wanted the bang & olufsen sound system and i couldn't be happier.

to somewhat compare to you, i also have a 2001 prelude, dohc vtec. very different cars. i've never owned an audi before but i love this car. makes me feel as if i've "grown up". the prelude is amazing when it comes to handling and the audi is right with it.

driving the 2.0t, it can be smooth. gears usually shift right around 2,000rpm when you're taking it easy. i cruise at 2,100rpm going 70mph. i didn't even consider the 0-60 time or 1/4 mile time when I bought the car. If i wanted that, i would have gotten a 335 but i have my motorcycle to fulfill the adrenaline needs.

my reasons for getting the audi: a very techy car, luxury oriented, quattro, good gas mileage and can't forget about the pussy magnet!

cheers... rocco

[Cecil]

you don't get as much for your money in the a4. you are stepping down from a v6 to a four banger and are going to lose a good deal of amenities for the same price along the way. The new tl is actually really sick and the extended warranty/ service plan on it is so cheap. The nav in the acura and bluetooth is a lot better too. We test drove a3's and a4's before getting our TL a year ago and it just was not worth it.

When I compare the premium plus package with sport susp and nav to my current '06 TL with Nav, I actually increase features (auto headlights, rainsensing wipers, Fog lights below headlights not in the headlight assembly, bigger trunk, 18" tires, awd and probably some others. I can not believe Audi would only package the keyless start in the prestige package. That is a no -brainer to have on a $40k car. The prestige package is overkill IMO and not worth the extra dollars but you can buy a 19" sport package vs. the 18" and can get the Drive Select.

Wife and I went to dealerships today to look around. We looked at the '09 Mazda 6s GT, '09 A4 2.0t, '09 TL, '09 Maxima. Strictly on looks and nothing else she put them in this order from good looking to worse: 1) Mazda 6, a very close second or just as good was 2) nissan Maxima, 3) Audi 2.0t and 4) TL. I agreed with the TL. I also think the MAzda 6 does look good but to sedany for me. The maxima and Audi are my top choices for looks. Not taking into consideraton badges either here. The Audi is great in the front but very plain on the side profile. It needs some character here and the exhaust needs at a bare minimum chrome tips. I assume you can add these easily and for a reasonable price.

Any other comments welcome. What kinda gas mileage would one expect on straight highway going 75-85 mph. I get 30-32 on my TL and this is darn good in my book.

Any other comments on the 2.0t engine and how it performs in 0-60, highway, and around town. Thanks

[Jibberific]

I have easily and repeatedly achieved 31-32 mpg at 75mph in my 1.8t on a flat road. Also if i accelerate very gently in town i can get 30mpg city.

[Redhotrod]

If you can wait for the 2010 MY TL comes out, they're releasing it with a 6MT. The car apparently outpaced a 335xi as well as a B7 S4... That says a lot to me.

[Audi007]

If you can wait for the 2010 MY TL comes out, they're releasing it with a 6MT. The car apparently outpaced a 335xi as well as a B7 S4... That says a lot to me.

the b8 3.2 a4 doesn't come with a mt so the tl mt sounds like a better deal with all the stuff it has plus you are a previous acura owner so they will give you a better deal

check out acurazine.com they have good info on the tl, i go there all the time for my MDX and TSX

[Cecil]

the b8 3.2 a4 doesn't come with a mt so the tl mt sounds like a better deal with all the stuff it has plus you are a previous acura owner so they will give you a better deal

check out acurazine.com they have good info on the tl, i go there all the time for my MDX and TSX

I wasn't going to consider the 3.2 because of price. The 2.0t is what I would look at. Doesn't the Audi with Prem Plus, Sport and Nav have similar features to the '09 TL. I think they do. thanks

[KiloByte]

I wasn't going to consider the 3.2 because of price. The 2.0t is what I would look at. Doesn't the Audi with Prem Plus, Sport and Nav have similar features to the '09 TL. I think they do. thanks

What about Quattro?

[jonmiles]

you don't get as much for your money in the a4. you are stepping down from a v6 to a four banger and are going to lose a good deal of amenities for the same price along the way. The new tl is actually really sick and the extended warranty/ service plan on it is so cheap. The nav in the acura and bluetooth is a lot better too. We test drove a3's and a4's before getting our TL a year ago and it just was not worth it.

Correction; If the only thing that you care about as a car owner is gizmos and reliability, then the Audi is not worth it.

The A4 is more fun to drive, performs better, is way safer, uses higher quality components, is better for the environment, and looks better. So if any of that matters to you, then you should be looking at an A4.

[khmerguy978]

a year ago makes a huge differences. we're talking a whole generation and a whole new platform. my a4 came LOADED with features.

i've tested all the competition and the new audi a4 did it for me.

[jonmiles]

a year ago makes a huge differences. we're talking a whole generation and a whole new platform. my a4 came LOADED with features.

i've tested all the competition and the new audi a4 did it for me.

For anyone who actually does test the competition, I agree that the A4 is the only logical conclusion.

[jonmiles]

I wasn't going to consider the 3.2 because of price. The 2.0t is what I would look at. Doesn't the Audi with Prem Plus, Sport and Nav have similar features to the '09 TL. I think they do. thanks

Yes. In a safer, better looking, and higher quality and much sportier package. MSRP would be about 41,500

[B8 S-line]

Cecil,

If you are prepared to get fXcked ass over titX, then by all means buy a B8 A4. I own one and I am in the process of requesting a refund! Have a read here:

http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16925

Good luck mate!

[vjma]

I am sure yours is an isolated case. So far almost everyone here is as happy as I am about the A4. I suggested that you write a letter to Audi HQ. I did that about my other car, which has a persistent noise since taking delivery, which was back to the dealer twice without a solution. I wrote directly to Audi and they sent an engineer over from Germany to work on my car!

[audikid66]

i wouldn't ever consider driving a TL ...IMO they are nothing but dressed up hondas..they feel and ride the same....and as far as interiors LOL i think audis 10 years ago had nicer interiors... get the audi you won't regret it

[amaurictx]

Cecil,

If you are prepared to get fXcked ass over titX, then by all means buy a B8 A4. I own one and I am in the process of requesting a refund! Have a read here:

http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16925

Good luck mate!

Your problems dont sound bad IMO. Seems like simple fixes and not worth a refund.

[Subaru71]

It all depends on what you want.

If you want speed, a Lancer EVO or a Subaru STI would be the best for the price. I had a 2005 STi, believe me, you would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make an A4 perform like that stock.

If you want an Audi though, you probably want luxury and comfort, as well as that brisk acceleration when you want to go fast. You probably value AWD's grip and handling, as well as safety. You probably want something that you can modify mildly and still have good gas mileage and no warranty issues. You probably want something with the highest reliability among european car makers (per consumer reports 2005-2008)

If that sounds like what you want, theres nothing better than an Audi. I used to be a car salesman, and it gave me the chance to drive many cars, including all of the ones everyone has mentioned above.

Specifically considering the TL, the most recent model TL I drove was a 2007 TL-S AT. Drove it for about 2 days and I feel that it is definitely way faster in a straight line than a stock A4, but will not handle even close to as well as an A4 does in the corners. The suspension is soft and response is crappy, along with your FWD understeer. I must admit interior is nice on the new acuras, but then again it all depends on individual taste. I'm sure most of us on this forum would [and probably already did] go with the A4.

[brownstud08]

go for the audi a4..i was in the same boat as you i had a 2005 acura TL w/navi but i decided to trade it in for a b6 a4 because the Acura had major electrical problems so i got rid of it for a 05 audi. personally i enjoy the audi much more than acura. the build quality is amazing and everyting about the audi trumps the acura...this new b8 a4 is absolutely amazing in every way you look at it.

[Cecil]

Correction; If the only thing that you care about as a car owner is gizmos and reliability, then the Audi is not worth it.

The A4 is more fun to drive, performs better, is way safer, uses higher quality components, is better for the environment, and looks better. So if any of that matters to you, then you should be looking at an A4.

You mention reliability. Are the a4's prone to be in the shop a lot. Also, seems like everyone likes the Audi and the quattro would be the only one I considered as well. How about resale. I buy my cars and then get another one in the 2-3 year range. I have been able to do well on my last 2 BMW's and I should on this TL with selling and not getting taken to the cleaners. Will the Audi give me the same result in 2-3 years or will I have a harder time selling it (mainly I think a lot of people seem to remember the Audi of past with the going into gear thing) and more importantly getting a good price like a Japenese or BMW will get. I have always sold on my own and never traded either. I keep my cars in great condition so selling once people finally look at it is pretty easy. Thanks so far for your comments.

Will the 2.0T seem like a step back from the 3.2 TL? It is a pretty quick car and can go. Does the 2.0T have turbo lag. I drove the 335i yesterday and it was very nice. Run flats on that car kill the deal though but a used 2007 335i or 335xi would probably get the nod if they had regular tires.

[vjma]

You mention reliability. Are the a4's prone to be in the shop a lot. Also, seems like everyone likes the Audi and the quattro would be the only one I considered as well. How about resale. I buy my cars and then get another one in the 2-3 year range. I have been able to do well on my last 2 BMW's and I should on this TL with selling and not getting taken to the cleaners. Will the Audi give me the same result in 2-3 years or will I have a harder time selling it (mainly I think a lot of people seem to remember the Audi of past with the going into gear thing) and more importantly getting a good price like a Japenese or BMW will get. I have always sold on my own and never traded either. I keep my cars in great condition so selling once people finally look at it is pretty easy. Thanks so far for your comments.

Will the 2.0T seem like a step back from the 3.2 TL? It is a pretty quick car and can go. Does the 2.0T have turbo lag. I drove the 335i yesterday and it was very nice. Run flats on that car kill the deal though but a used 2007 335i or 335xi would probably get the nod if they had regular tires.

Can't comment on the resale value as I don't live in the US. As for reliability, I think Audi is right up there with the best. I had a 05 A6 3.2 that was faultless for nearly 3 years. I took delivery of the A4 about 4 months ago and it has been perfect (touch wood!). Audi in the past 3-4 years has really improved alot in this regard. The "unintented acceleration" crap that you mentioned was unfortunate and IMHO more a human error than anything else.

I also cannot comment on the 2.0T as I have a 3.2. I find mine more than adequate for everyday driving and I heard that the 2.0T is actually not that much slower. With a little bit of chip tuning who knows?

[UN-PIMP-Z-A4]

CECIL run flats can be removed and replace with wat ever tire you want. You do know this right. I hope i read incorrect and you are not saying that you would pass up a 335 because of the stock tires...

[Cecil]

CECIL run flats can be removed and replace with wat ever tire you want. You do know this right. I hope i read incorrect and you are not saying that you would pass up a 335 because of the stock tires...

Been through it with my wifes Honda Odyssey Touring. Different animal b/c that van required new wheels and TPMS. It also had the empty space for the spare and came with a jack. The BMW wheels are standard wheels at least but there is no place to put a spare. I would not drive on regular tires knowing I did not have a spare. In addition, I don't love the interior of the BMW but the exterior is better than the A4(a4's front is much better though).

I also want the sport package on the 335 so with staggered wheel sizes it makes tires that much more expensive. I drive about 17k miles per year and it is my daily driver with a lot coming on the highway. RFT's, i have heard will start to get realy noisy pretty quickly due to rubber compound and premature wear. Do you have suggestions b/c I could easily get a 2007 335i with premium, sport, nav, comfort access, cold weather package, under 25k miles for under $40k. Would also be certified to 100k miles. Any thoughts?

[boomer]

Cecil, are you an engineer type? I have never seen such microscopic analysis. Where is your pure impulsiveness? Where does the gut feel thing come in? Buy a Japanese car and you'll wish you went German--there is a difference. I adore my S5 but love driving my wife's new A4 and have not had any of the concerns a few others have had. I have had many Audis over the years and never have been sorry. The Japanese cars I have had made me feel just like the other zillion people on the road--satisfied but not excited.

[Cecil]

Cecil, are you an engineer type? I have never seen such microscopic analysis. Where is your pure impulsiveness? Where does the gut feel thing come in? Buy a Japanese car and you'll wish you went German--there is a difference. I adore my S5 but love driving my wife's new A4 and have not had any of the concerns a few others have had. I have had many Audis over the years and never have been sorry. The Japanese cars I have had made me feel just like the other zillion people on the road--satisfied but not excited.

That cracks me up I do overanalyze but far from an engineer. Guess thats why I'm pretty successful in sales as I understand what I sell better than most.

I did have 2 BMW's prior to my TL. They were different. They felt good but so does the TL. The TL is smooth and good on the highway. The interior of my TL blew away the BMW's interior IMO. THe exterior styling of my 2001 sport 330i was better than my current TL. If Audi would just make a better rear end on that A4 I would be drooling.

[andyrew]

Cecil,

The 2.0t has such a small turbo you will not even feel the turbo lag, not to mention the fact that they are pushing relatively low amounts of boost.

Keep in mind that you can always get an ECU reflash to raise the boost level and get about 45 more HP and a bucket full more torque. Then you will have acceleration damn near the v6 with the gas mileage of the 2.0t. IMHO its a no brainer. I have a friend buying a new a4 and this is the option I have instilled upon him, he even drove an A3 with the bigger ko4 turbo upgrade w/ around 300hp and commented that it was extremely fast and extremely smooth (still getting that 30mpg..).

If you got an automatic you would never feel the turbo lag.

[Cecil]

Cecil,

The 2.0t has such a small turbo you will not even feel the turbo lag, not to mention the fact that they are pushing relatively low amounts of boost.

Keep in mind that you can always get an ECU reflash to raise the boost level and get about 45 more HP and a bucket full more torque. Then you will have acceleration damn near the v6 with the gas mileage of the 2.0t. IMHO its a no brainer. I have a friend buying a new a4 and this is the option I have instilled upon him, he even drove an A3 with the bigger ko4 turbo upgrade w/ around 300hp and commented that it was extremely fast and extremely smooth (still getting that 30mpg..).

If you got an automatic you would never feel the turbo lag.

My next car will be auto w/ paddle shifters which is why, if I get the A4 that it will have the sport package. What does the ECU reflash cost and where do you get this done and does it impact the warranty? Is this the same as putting a "chip" on the car? Thanks for the information. Never hurts to have more HP and TQ and still achieve the same mpg. Thats a win, win and win!

[moses0324]

I must add Cecil you are on an Audi forum...Take advice with a grain of salt.

[JMRQuattro]

the new TL is UUUUGGGLLLYYY. The new audi is sexy. And the new audi w/ quattro means great handling no matter what conditions it is. TL FTL. Go with the a4, you'll be glad you did. My mom and dad were basically making the same decision between the TL and a merc. The TL for the price is alright but it doesn't feel as well built and smooth. It's more features than anything else.

[andyrew]

My next car will be auto w/ paddle shifters which is why, if I get the A4 that it will have the sport package. What does the ECU reflash cost and where do you get this done and does it impact the warranty? Is this the same as putting a "chip" on the car? Thanks for the information. Never hurts to have more HP and TQ and still achieve the same mpg. Thats a win, win and win!

Yes this is the same as a "chip" However no one "chips" anymore, this was stopped about 10 years ago, and now ECU's are reflashed via the OBD2 port. This is the same with most cars.

However realize that you can "chip" any car, but any turbocharged cars will see a substantially greater increase in power because of the MFR's building the car for the average driver that doesnt know how to take care of their engine's turbo's. (Always allow the engine to warm up before getting on it hard, always allow the engine 2-5 minutes to cool down after a hard run, weather that be not getting on the boost for a couple of miles or letting the engine idle for a couple of minutes, this allows the turbo to properly cool down and prevents premature wear)

I am a big supporter of turbo's. LOTS of power can be had for very little displacement; this goes for any car.

I have 300hp+ in my 98 a4 1.8t and see 31mpg on the highway, and I do have quattro. I also used to have a 944 turbo, I also saw 30+ mpg and had about 350hp (now THAT was an amazing car..)

[JMRQuattro]

^^ turbo quattro ftw

[Cecil]

Yes this is the same as a "chip" However no one "chips" anymore, this was stopped about 10 years ago, and now ECU's are reflashed via the OBD2 port. This is the same with most cars.

However realize that you can "chip" any car, but any turbocharged cars will see a substantially greater increase in power because of the MFR's building the car for the average driver that doesnt know how to take care of their engine's turbo's. (Always allow the engine to warm up before getting on it hard, always allow the engine 2-5 minutes to cool down after a hard run, weather that be not getting on the boost for a couple of miles or letting the engine idle for a couple of minutes, this allows the turbo to properly cool down and prevents premature wear)

I am a big supporter of turbo's. LOTS of power can be had for very little displacement; this goes for any car.

I have 300hp+ in my 98 a4 1.8t and see 31mpg on the highway, and I do have quattro. I also used to have a 944 turbo, I also saw 30+ mpg and had about 350hp (now THAT was an amazing car..)

Thanks but how much does a reflash of the ECU cost, does it void the warranty, and where or who does this? Is it a trail and error thing? How is it done? What are the negatives or possible shortcomings (blown turbo comes to mind I guess). I'm sure not your average mechanic will or can do this.

[andyrew]

Nope this is a tuner thing.

There are many sponsors on this board, and there are many manufacturers that do this.


It can void the warranty, but it IS completely reversible, also I dont think it is detectable. This would be a question for the manufacturer.
There are different places around the country that do this work, Hopefully someone will chime in with some good choices as I am not completely familiar with the new A4 and the tuning available.
How is it done? In general (through the OBD port) the mechanic doing the flash will pull the car to the machine, connect the car to their computer, go through a series of things "re flashing" the ecu via that computer, and after about 15mins you are done and you can drive home in your "chipped" car.

Negatives. It is argued weather or not there is added strain on the turbo, but in general the turbo will receive added strain. So instead of it lasting 150k miles it might only last 100k miles. Also when I replaced my turbo (with a big turbo) my exhaust manifold had a crack on it, however I know the previous owner did NOT treat the turbo properly and did NOT let the turbo cool down.
Thats about it, your not increasing your HP all that much in relative sense. So there will not be that much added strain to the drivetrain or engine.


Here are a couple of tuning company's/distributors I know of.
GOAPR.com
giacusa.com

http://achtuning.com/
ECStuning.com
034motorsports.com
stasisengineering.com

[UN-PIMP-Z-A4]

cecil didnt know that the 335 dont have a spare...
i would buy new tires and renew my membership with AAA

[moses0324]

^^i like your sig picture...sickkkkk LOL

[BMWBig6]

I also used to have a 944 turbo, I also saw 30+ mpg and had about 350hp (now THAT was an amazing car..)

944 turbo love, nice!

[Redhotrod]

I'd get the 335i every day of the week of the A4. Also everyone seems ignorant to the fact that the new TL will have AWD, in fact it will have SH-AWD which is what allows it to be faster than a B7 S4. The Audi for what you get is way overprived IMHO.

[boomer]

I'd get the 335i every day of the week of the A4. Also everyone seems ignorant to the fact that the new TL will have AWD, in fact it will have SH-AWD which is what allows it to be faster than a B7 S4. The Audi for what you get is way overprived IMHO.

you get what you pay for in my experience. All upper end new cars are overpriced. I'll pay a bit more for my Audi as you suggest and will be quite happy that I don't own another Japanese car. To each their own.