Big Brake Kits

[audiFUEGO]

Boxster calipers, specific carriers, A8 or A6 3.0 rotors.
-or-
Boxster S calipers, specific carriers, S4 rotors.
-or-
Bigger Porsche calipers with whatever carriers and rotors come with the kit.

What year boxter? These "Specific carriers"... are they just the carriers off the boxter?

Anyone got the part numbers for the Boxter upgrade?

[JumboBlack1.8]

986 Boxster calipers from 98' to 2004 I believe.....and the brackets can be had for $175/pair and SS lines for $89/pair from PureMs.....i've just pieced this kit together.....installing it next week

[onemoremile]

I am currently using ATE super blue fluid, but it makes your clutch squeal, so i am thinking of changing it, what should i go with?

ATE Typ.200. It is the same as Super Blue but has no dye. It is one of the best fluids you can use for both performance and longevity.

[BremboGuy]

986 Boxster calipers from 98' to 2004 I believe.....and the brackets can be had for $175/pair and SS lines for $89/pair from PureMs.....i've just pieced this kit together.....installing it next week

What size disc are you using with the Boxster calipers??

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you are potentially creating a system that will generate LESS brake torque than OEM. With the 36/40 mm piston diameters, any disc less than 13" will result is less braking force at the front axle.

The other problem with the 986 Boxster caliper is the limitations for disc thickness. The caliper will only properly accept up to a 26mm thick disc which does not allow for much (if any) increase in heat capacity. As you all know, increasing heat capacity is the #1 purpose of a BBK.

[JaredVL]

Am being blind or do I not see STaSIS in there? I know that the original b5 A4 kit has been discontinued. But you can still run their stuff if you swap uprights.

[BremboGuy]

CONTINUED:

The hard part to swallow is that there are many people running this and other similarly specced out kits and claiming to have noticed an improvement in performance and no notiecable compromise in safety.

That itself is simply a testament to the functionality of the ABS and controlled proportioning within the car itself. While it may compensate for a margin of error it does not guarantee optimum performance. What many people feel with these types modifications are actually and quite often mistaken for improved performance when in fact it is the exact opposite.

Firmness of the pedal and reduced pedal travel are a direct result of a decrease in piston area. Reducing piston area without making the appropriate correction for disc diameter or effective radius results in a decrease in overall brake torque.

The reverse of that is an increase of piston area (from calipers such as Cayenne or RS4) which results in an increase in pedal travel and and a more abrupt sensation of braking power. The common mistake is that this "improved response" or increased brake torque is beneficial when it actually creates a disruption in bias ultimately decreasing braking performance.

To make a little more sense of this here's a a link to a post I recently wrote for someone inquiring about the effects of certain changes to you brake system...

Brake System Design

I guess the good news is that modern ABS and electronic brake distribution is able to correct for a certain margin of error and allow the system to remain functional to a certain extent.
The bad news is that many of these types of systems do not actually yield the performance improvements that they promise or that you may be hoping for.
In more extreme cases the ABS cannot function properly and under extreme braking situations (not in a straight line) will become unstable and unsafe.

[f15046]

I have an opportunity to get s4 brakes and install them on my A4. I can get the front aluminum uprights, axles, calipers, rotors, caliper bracket, and all the rear brake stuff. I know i will also need the flanges to slide into the front diff so I can blot the S4 axles to my A4 transmission.

My questions is: Is it worth the trouble? Will i see any improvements in braking? Will there be any advantages of the aluminum upright?

[BremboGuy]

I have an opportunity to get s4 brakes and install them on my A4. I can get the front aluminum uprights, axles, calipers, rotors, caliper bracket, and all the rear brake stuff. I know i will also need the flanges to slide into the front diff so I can blot the S4 axles to my A4 transmission.

My questions is: Is it worth the trouble? Will i see any improvements in braking? Will there be any advantages of the aluminum upright?

What are you trying to accomplish?

Are you tracking the car?

Have you experienced any problems or failures with your current brake setup?

What type of performance gains are you expecting or hoping for?

How much is the full swap going to cost you?

Lastly, have you weighed the cost associated with that route vs/ existing BBK's from reputable companies like Alcon or Brembo that are developed specifically for your vehicle?

In the end you are still paying money for something that most of the S4 guys are not happy with. While it may be a slight improvement over what you have now, is it worth the money for a marginal improvement just to have an "upgrade"?

[B5Burn]

Who else is running AP racing?

I don't have any good pics, but I have 4 piston AP's, love them.

Cue the cross-drill hate

B.

[f15046]

I am parting an S4 out for a friend of mine, and since I am the one removing all the parts from the car he is giving me a few parts that I want (bumpers, sideskirts, brake system, etc. )

I have never tracked the car. I have been to the mountains a few times. I have only had my A4 brakes fade on me once. I currently have slotted rotors, with some good pads (I think they are PBR)

I have not found anything wrong with my current setup. As mentioned above the only cost to me will be stainless brake lines, good brake fluid, maybe upgraded pads, and time/aggravation.

I wasnt sure what kind of gains to expect. I drove my buddies S4 on several occasions before he wrecked it, and the brakes felt the same as mine. I was thinking with better fluid and stainless brake lines, that the feel could be improved.

[JaredVL]

CONTINUED:

The hard part to swallow is that there are many people running this and other similarly specced out kits and claiming to have noticed an improvement in performance and no notiecable compromise in safety.

That itself is simply a testament to the functionality of the ABS and controlled proportioning within the car itself. While it may compensate for a margin of error it does not guarantee optimum performance. What many people feel with these types modifications are actually and quite often mistaken for improved performance when in fact it is the exact opposite.

Firmness of the pedal and reduced pedal travel are a direct result of a decrease in piston area. Reducing piston area without making the appropriate correction for disc diameter or effective radius results in a decrease in overall brake torque.

The reverse of that is an increase of piston area (from calipers such as Cayenne or RS4) which results in an increase in pedal travel and and a more abrupt sensation of braking power. The common mistake is that this "improved response" or increased brake torque is beneficial when it actually creates a disruption in bias ultimately decreasing braking performance.

To make a little more sense of this here's a a link to a post I recently wrote for someone inquiring about the effects of certain changes to you brake system...

Brake System Design

I guess the good news is that modern ABS and electronic brake distribution is able to correct for a certain margin of error and allow the system to remain functional to a certain extent.
The bad news is that many of these types of systems do not actually yield the performance improvements that they promise or that you may be hoping for.
In more extreme cases the ABS cannot function properly and under extreme braking situations (not in a straight line) will become unstable and unsafe.

brembo guy huh?

interesting

[Euro-Tuner]

lots of great info!

edit:

I'm really happy with the direction this thread is going.

Does anyone have weight differences from when you installed your BBK's compared to your stock brakes?

[djwimbo]

*I'm an idiot, never mind.*

[onemoremile]

that is just beautiful.

I don't have any good pics, but I have 4 piston AP's, love them.

Cue the cross-drill hate

B.

[RS2urq]

Brakes can be bling or functional. What do you want them for? I have raced Motorola Cup A4 with stock brakes and they were adequate. Upgraded to Boxster calipers which improved modulation but not stopping power.
I have three 5 cyl Audis all upgraded:
1. RS2urq with 2Bennett floating rotors 332x32mm 993tt calipers, which are awesome both in stopping and modulation
2. 93 urS4 S8 331x30 rotors, 993TT calipers, noisy, good modulation and stopping power
3. 95.5 Avant, 321x30 Euro A8 rotors, 993TT calipers, good modulation and stopping power

I do not track these cars, but no difference detected between two rotor sizes or feel. Much better than carrera calipers on Euro A8 rotors (I upgraded from this)
4. 2002 V8S6, 332x32 Stoptech rotors and ST-40 calipers. I never thought I would notice the difference between Brembos and Stoptech, but the StopTech are awesome improvement over HP2's,

Pads make a big difference, and Axis and Textar used above.

Audi just did not go the extra distance for good braking.

Folks here talking about Cayenne or 355 mm rotors, beware of creating and out of balance system. I feel the 332x32 rotor is all you need. The extra rotor mass in the 32mm vs. 30 mm rotor makes a big difference.

I cannot imagine ever fading the any of these brake systems I have used. I know the Boxster system will, and if you look at the swept area of the Boxster, you will notice you are going backward in area, as these are limited to 25mm rotors.

Measure twice, cut once. Get the best you can afford. Stock rotor sizes are the least troublesome, but the rotors are much heavier than two piece floating rotors. Replacement cost of rotors will become an issue later on

[rogerius]

Brakes can be bling or functional. What do you want them for? I have raced Motorola Cup A4 with stock brakes and they were adequate. Upgraded to Boxster calipers which improved modulation but not stopping power.
I have three 5 cyl Audis all upgraded:
1. RS2urq with 2Bennett floating rotors 332x32mm 993tt calipers, which are awesome both in stopping and modulation
2. 93 urS4 S8 331x30 rotors, 993TT calipers, noisy, good modulation and stopping power
3. 95.5 Avant, 321x30 Euro A8 rotors, 993TT calipers, good modulation and stopping power

I do not track these cars, but no difference detected between two rotor sizes or feel. Much better than carrera calipers on Euro A8 rotors (I upgraded from this)
4. 2002 V8S6, 332x32 Stoptech rotors and ST-40 calipers. I never thought I would notice the difference between Brembos and Stoptech, but the StopTech are awesome improvement over HP2's,

Pads make a big difference, and Axis and Textar used above.

Audi just did not go the extra distance for good braking.

Folks here talking about Cayenne or 355 mm rotors, beware of creating and out of balance system. I feel the 332x32 rotor is all you need. The extra rotor mass in the 32mm vs. 30 mm rotor makes a big difference.

I cannot imagine ever fading the any of these brake systems I have used. I know the Boxster system will, and if you look at the swept area of the Boxster, you will notice you are going backward in area, as these are limited to 25mm rotors.

Measure twice, cut once. Get the best you can afford. Stock rotor sizes are the least troublesome, but the rotors are much heavier than two piece floating rotors. Replacement cost of rotors will become an issue later on

I was doing some logs for the new turbo setup and just want to let u all know that after 12 hard brakingd from 240km/h to 0, my BB started fading.I had to stop and let them cool down.I have front 6pot cayennes on 350x34mm disks and rear 4pot cayennes with 330x30mm disks.So yes fading occurs.

[Euro-Tuner]

well I just sent an email to all of the companies listed in the original post asking the exact weight on their kit for our cars. I'll post back all the info as soon as it comes in.

In the meantime, does anyone have the weight on the stock front brakes?

[Euro-Tuner]

Weights:

Hi John,

The weight of the complete kit really differs quite a bit depend what set up you desire, I can give you some info on our parts and you can piece together the total weight.

S6 caliper: 1,432g

L6 caliper: 1,822g

8pot caliper: 2,564g

EVO 12 caliper: 4,046g

typical single piston sliding caliper is around 4,800 g

Rotors and other weight varies depend on application, i.e. if the car requires deep rotor hat, the overall rotor weight would increase due to the extra material etc, the same goes for brackets.

Sincerely

WP Pro North America

Jon,

We offer more than one brake kit option for the A4 with different rotor sizes, but the average weight would be about 30lbs per corner.

Feel free to contact us if you have any questions.

I'll post the others when I get them

More:

Jon,

Thank you for the inquiry and use of Wilwood Disc Brakes. We do not have any kits listed for the 200 Audi A4. We offer a kit for the 1.8 Turbo Jetta and Audi TT, but we cannot confirm it will fit the A4.

Regards,

MJ

...I email back with the link to RPI Equipped so we'll see what happens with that.

[alen]

ATE Typ.200. It is the same as Super Blue but has no dye. It is one of the best fluids you can use for both performance and longevity.

Jim, I understand the only difference between the super blue and typ200 is the amber color in the typ200. Would this eliminate the clutch squeal as aforementioned with the super blue?

[b5a4gt28]

Here are my 993 tt brakes. I'm now running rs4 wheels. I just recently replaced the rotors and pads and it wasnt cheap!

[Euro-Tuner]

Jim, I understand the only difference between the super blue and typ200 is the amber color in the typ200. Would this eliminate the clutch squeal as aforementioned with the super blue?

from what I've read, Yes it will.

[RS2urq]

Just adding to my previous post and comment, "I cannot imagine fading the BBK upgrade" applies to street use. As mentioned before, pads and proper brake-in are very important.

Also, brake cooling. My race cars have elaborate brake cooling ducts and integral ducting at the center of rotor. When I loose a flexible duct during a race, brake fade creeps in. Passenger cars just don't have the need for this type of cooling.

Many folks writing here are taking big passenger cars to the track and because these cars can produce fast straight speeds have more braking usage than our lighter more agile racing machines which are driven mostly either full throttle or full brake, never ever coast or engine braking (keep this in context).

The question of unsprung weight is also mentioned indirectly. Big brakes (lighter if Al hats)and heavier if bigger rims/tires. Different equation as unsprung weight is not as critical on a road car, but is with my 3 piece ultra-light BBS race rims and superlight Wilwoods. Longevity vs. Lightness. Each has its own application.

Very helpful series, as we all are looking for the best package for the money. I have been a proponent of 993TT calipers using the largest Audi OEM rotors for street use (heavy anchors). I have recently discovered certain "loss-leader" offers for StopTech brakes (Stratmosphere's winter pricing) that were an awesome quality value.

[fred2ka4]

Fronts: Porsche 911 Calipers & ECS Tuning S2 V2 Rotors w/ custom machined brackets











Rears: ECS Tuning S4 Rotors & Calipers w/ custom billet adapters




















Installed:

[jcb.]

99 avant with B7 Brembo 8 pots on 360mm floating discs
parts required for a B5 upgrade :
s4/Rs4 outer CV, S4/RS4 upright, calipers, discs, pads of choice and hoses (goodridge motorsport custom hoses in this case)

[onemoremile]

Jim, I understand the only difference between the super blue and typ200 is the amber color in the typ200. Would this eliminate the clutch squeal as aforementioned with the super blue?

yes. the blue dye is the problem.

[rogerius]

fronts:

rears:

side view:

[audiFUEGO]

Does anyone use dimpled rotors? Do you hear weird noises when braking and driving?

If not, Does anyone experience weird noises with either drilled or slotted rotors?

[supernafamacho]

I use ksport 356mm and 8 piston caliper with ebc yelowstuff pads,awesome¡¡

[4ringking]

Here are my 993 tt brakes. I'm now running rs4 wheels. I just recently replaced the rotors and pads and it wasnt cheap!

993tt brake upgrades, I can get the parts for a good price....

[pja0750]

993tt brake upgrades, I can get the parts for a good price....

please tell me where cause i need rotors and pads

[Euro-Tuner]

Just updated a couple things. I was also wondering if anyone has had any fitment issues as far as offset goes?

[capea4]

I have the RPI wilwood kit. Best part of that kit is pads, there are SO many pads available at super cheap prices. I ended up swapping the front calipers to a larger piston. The caliper that RPI includes left the brakes somewhat numb, with a lot of rear bias. The larger pistons fixed that. i also run B5 s4 rears.

[Euro-Tuner]

^^Nice!

Just update to add euro-spec and add a couple more links.

[Euro-Tuner]

yup those 996 calipers are a bit bigger than boxster calipers and go pretty well with b5 s4 rotors. pretty easy to mount them on b5 a4. ive got an extra set if anybodys interested. if you diy you will save a lot.

Where did you get the caliper carriers for the 996 calipers and S4 rotors? and what pads are used?

[jrock]

I have the 996 calipers up front and I used evoms adapters... fit perfectly over my b5 s4 rotors from adam! I also have hawk pads. Cant remember which ones right nowbut mjm hooked me up.

[Turbwhistle]

I am going to try and bring this thread back a bit. I seem to be hearing good things about the rpi wilwood kit, but i didnt hear anything about the eurospec kit, they are roughly the same price, also is stoptech out of the question? Which is the best bang for your buck? links below. I am sure they all are good, but which would you go with?

rpi kit- http://www.amimotorsports.com/store/..._detail&p=2110
eurospec kit- http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...roducts_id=870

stoptech kit- http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-210173.aspx

rotora kit- http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-278299.aspx

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Here are my 993 tt brakes. I'm now running rs4 wheels. I just recently replaced the rotors and pads and it wasnt cheap!

Ah yes the rally slot rotors! I haven't seen those in quite some time! Very nice!!

Feel free to shoot me a PM if anyone ever has any questions about our brake kits!

Jason

[GOODBYNAAIR]

OK so i read over most of this and over most of the white paper, and if im reading it right upgrading to something like the AP racing 321mm or the 318 mm boxster or the eurospec 330mm in the front and the b7s4 in the back should balance out pretty well right ? If not sorry if this seems noob but I guess im not one of the brake guys but I would really like to know/ understand it the right way. thanks all please bare with me.

[TheKid84]

Im seeing all these awesome brake up grades and not so great body kits :p each and to his own I guess..

[A4Rob]

Im seeing all these awesome brake up grades and not so great body kits :p each and to his own I guess..

you are also bumping a pretty old thread