How To tell when the K03's

[00s4slvr]

hey, so i have recently chipped my car with the giac x ecu. I have it on stock and usually switch it on pump performance on weekends. My question is how can i tell when the turbos are starting to go?

I know when there blown they make a dentist drill like sound but how can i tell when they are starting to go?

[AudiSportB5S4]

most of the time they will become more audible since the blades on the turbos start bending with the increased demand out of them, but even then sometimes they go silently. I had my turbos go after a check valve line came off the motor and sucked something into the turbo. just properly maintain the car and they should last you. there was just a thread jakero got 200K on stock K03s, stock, but still it has to be part his maintenance that helped. do NOT boost (get a boost gauge) until your oil temp is past 175, i would tell you not to boost as well until coolant temp is up, but by the time your oil is warm your water temps will be there already. after spirited driving a good 30 second idle before shutdown is great, also just take it easy stay out of boost 5 mins before parking and youll be set. if they go otherwise its out of your control!

[WMi_S4]

simple answer, if u have to ask, then they are already in the process of going.......dude, its chance really, unless you beat the ever-living piss out of your car on a daily basis....they could go 10k from now or next week. I know someone that has 200k on his car w/ a GIAC chip on STOCK TURBOS still, never replaced once.....its chance my friend!

[00s4slvr]

hey thanks for the info. however on not getting to boost when the car is cold, isnt that almost nearly impossible since at about 2k the turbos kick in and start to boost? or am i confused about what boost is? also when the oil temp is about 175, thats the first line on the oil temp guage correct?

[gointoscott]

Since you dont have a boost gauge it is harder to tell when you are in boost, but basically if you are babying it, your not going into boost. Its only if you get on it even a little that it will go into boost.

But I woudl def get a boost gauge asap since you are chipped now, its the easiest way to tell when its not boosting correctly.

I recently did piggies on my car and I noticed after doing the piggies that I hear my turbo's whistle louder. its only in vacuum and usually when I'm pressing on the gas and its going from -10psi to -7psi that I notice the whistling ( they sound like the sound you hear from a turbo diesel semi) if that makes sense.

Anyway. I'm not worried about it, I do the propper warmup cool down, dont beat the heck out of it so hopefully I'll ben the next 200k driver. (Im at 92k right now so have long ways to go for that)

[alias747]

hey thanks for the info. however on not getting to boost when the car is cold, isnt that almost nearly impossible since at about 2k the turbos kick in and start to boost? or am i confused about what boost is? also when the oil temp is about 175, thats the first line on the oil temp guage correct?

You could be at redline and not boosting. Your only gonna go into boost when the engine is under load. So you have to be giving it a decent amount of gas. Going up a hill makes it easier to go into boost too becuase of the load it gives the engine.

So like Scott said, you just need to accelerate easily and you'll be fine.

But step 1: Get a boost gauge

[GramCracker]

hey thanks for the info. however on not getting to boost when the car is cold, isnt that almost nearly impossible since at about 2k the turbos kick in and start to boost? or am i confused about what boost is? also when the oil temp is about 175, thats the first line on the oil temp guage correct?

The turbos will kick in at 2k if your giving it gas. It all depends on how you are with the throttle. You could go off the motor all the time and never hit boost. This is typically how I drive. But a boost gauge is a KEY part. It should be your next mod.

edit: Alias is sneaky

[alias747]

The turbos will kick in at 2k if your giving it gas. It all depends on how you are with the throttle. You could go off the motor all the time and never hit boost. This is typically how I drive. But a boost gauge is a KEY part. It should be your next mod.

edit: Alias is sneaky

I think you underestimate my sneakiness sir

[00s4slvr]

Lol yes i am waiting for my next paycheck to get the awe vent boost guage... the only thing is the install looks rather complicated... i baby the car 90% of the time and sometimes when on the freeway il do some highway pulls but the chip is on stock mode so im on stock boost psi. anyways you say that you can drive off the motor the whole without the turbos kicking in. Thats impossible if you going 50 becuase your rpms will be around 2K and the turbos will the kick in. My question is can the turbos be kicking in without being in boost? also is boost activated pretty much everytime you floor the car?

If i were to do a rolling race from 40-140, would it be better to use tip and when would the correct shift aproximate be at? should i want to stay in boost the whole time? also i have a auto/tip not manual tranny...

[alias747]

Lol yes i am waiting for my next paycheck to get the awe vent boost guage... the only thing is the install looks rather complicated... i baby the car 90% of the time and sometimes when on the freeway il do some highway pulls but the chip is on stock mode so im on stock boost psi. anyways you say that you can drive off the motor the whole without the turbos kicking in. Thats impossible if you going 50 becuase your rpms will be around 2K and the turbos will the kick in. My question is can the turbos be kicking in without being in boost? also is boost activated pretty much everytime you floor the car?

If i were to do a rolling race from 40-140, would it be better to use tip and when would the correct shift aproximate be at? should i want to stay in boost the whole time? also i have a auto/tip not manual tranny...

Seriously man go back and reread the last 3 posts becuase I don't think you did the first time... When you are cruising at 50 you are not boosting. Only if you give it a decent amount of throttle. Where exactly of the position on the pedal is dependent on the conditions and you need a boost gauge to know. When the car is idling the turbos are spinning, but you are not building boost. So you need to know the difference. Yes when you floor it the car will try to build boost...

Here do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

[00s4slvr]

thank you. for racing purposes...

If i were to do a rolling race from 40-140, would it be better to use tip and when would the correct shift aproximate be at? should i want to stay in boost the whole time? also i have a auto/tip not manual tranny...

[obijohn22]

hey thanks for the info. however on not getting to boost when the car is cold, isnt that almost nearly impossible since at about 2k the turbos kick in and start to boost? or am i confused about what boost is? also when the oil temp is about 175, thats the first line on the oil temp guage correct?

do not confuse the fact that your turbos have begun to "spool" and the fact that they may or may not be creating boost. they will start to spool at about 1800 rpm or so. this just means the turbines have started to spin, your car can still be in vacuum at this point. the boost is controlled by the ecu and is based on throttle position etc. etc. the wastegate is used to force more exhaust pressure through the hot side of the turbo and create more spool and then boost. By forcing more or less exhaust pressure though the turbo, more or less boost is created. when the wastegates open, more of the exhaust goes around the turbo and out the exhaust, instead of being forced through, this is how a specific amount of boost is regulated regardless of engine speed.

[00s4slvr]

but im saying if i was to do a 40-140 roll race from second, i have it in tip mode, how would i go about perfect shifting?

[WMi_S4]

do not confuse the fact that your turbos have begun to "spool" and the fact that they may or may not be creating boost. they will start to spool at about 1800 rpm or so. this just means the turbines have started to spin, your car can still be in vacuum at this point. the boost is controlled by the ecu and is based on throttle position etc. etc. the wastegate is used to force more exhaust pressure through the hot side of the turbo and create more spool and then boost. By forcing more or less exhaust pressure though the turbo, more or less boost is created. when the wastegates open, more of the exhaust goes around the turbo and out the exhaust, instead of being forced through, this is how a specific amount of boost is regulated regardless of engine speed.

Yo, where u at in MI?? If near the West side of the state/Grand Rapids, we are having a big meet the end of October off of 84th st and 131 S. PM or something man, the B5 S4 is growing over here on the West-side

[Videlov]

Yes, spooling and boosting is completely different. Lucky me, I bought a boost gauge and now with the chip in, they definetly sound louder when I'm spooling up but I usually shift at 2k rpm when the oil is still cold so it should be fine.

Also first winter for me with the s, I hear you have to really be careful in the cold.

[saucys4]

If the turbos sound like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aiNAchgCxs

[Videlov]

If the turbos sound like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aiNAchgCxs

Haha notice how that's on a 1.8t, so only one k03. So if both of your turbos start sounding like this, guess what? I think I'll start twitching.

[GunSupplier]

but im saying if i was to do a 40-140 roll race from second, i have it in tip mode, how would i go about perfect shifting?

Since nobody has answered your question, I'll give it a go.

Yes, it would be best if you raced in Tiptronic mode from a roll. That way, you can already be ready in 2nd gear (if you're starting from 40mph). You won't have to wait for the transmission to downshift. In fact, I'd say that its borderline stupid to race from a roll without being in Tip mode. It gives you so much more control over what the car is doing. From a roll, the Tip is pretty much exactly like a manual, with the benefits being that you physically can't miss a shift, or shift too late.

As far as shifting in Tip mode goes, make sure to shift a bit before redline. The torque curves of stock and chipped K03 cars favor shifting a little early, as opposed to shifting at redline. The K03s run out of breath at high RPM, so it actually slows you down a bit to run all the way to redline.

What happens is that the K03s start to "choke up" a bit at or near redline and then when you finally do shift to the next gear they have to quickly recover, and "clear their throats" to start making boost again.

[00s4slvr]

thanks for the answer. That was an excellent answer and now i know what to do.

[badbiturbo]

The torque curves of stock and chipped K03 cars favor shifting a little early, as opposed to shifting at redline. The K03s run out of breath at high RPM, so it actually slows you down a bit to run all the way to redline.

What happens is that the K03s start to "choke up" a bit at or near redline and then when you finally do shift to the next gear they have to quickly recover, and "clear their throats" to start making boost again.

that happened to me 2night, i was like wtf?????

[GunSupplier]

that happened to me 2night, i was like wtf?????

Haha. Yeah, it only happens with the K03s. They are simply too small, so at high RPM they essentially out-spin themselves, and can't keep up with the flow anymore. K04s pull much better up high, while also retaining most of the "OMG!!!!" low down torque. Anything larger (RS6, GT series) is pretty much a monster at any RPM, but you do give up a chunk of the right-off-idle, bashed-in-the-face-with-a-baseball-bat, low end grunt that you get with K04s.

[LIFES4]

most of the time they will become more audible since the blades on the turbos start bending with the increased demand out of them, but even then sometimes they go silently. I had my turbos go after a check valve line came off the motor and sucked something into the turbo. just properly maintain the car and they should last you. there was just a thread jakero got 200K on stock K03s, stock, but still it has to be part his maintenance that helped. do NOT boost (get a boost gauge) until your oil temp is past 175, i would tell you not to boost as well until coolant temp is up, but by the time your oil is warm your water temps will be there already. after spirited driving a good 30 second idle before shutdown is great, also just take it easy stay out of boost 5 mins before parking and youll be set. if they go otherwise its out of your control!

oil temp past 175? mines is always at 150 does that mean anything?

[00s4slvr]

I dont know sometimes when i push my car a lot or if im cruising on the highway for over an hour the oil temp almost gets up to the middle line.

[00s4slvr]

your oil temp sense might be broken.

[GunSupplier]

oil temp past 175? mines is always at 150 does that mean anything?

That's a little suspicious. Even in the coldest winter weather the oil temp will rise a bit past 150. If it's super cold, then it might not rise *much* above 150, but it won't be on the line, unless you only drive in like 15 minute bursts. If it never, ever rises, you might have a sensor malfunction like 00s4slvr said.

[00s4slvr]

yeah i mean on decently hott days if im cruising 80,90 on the highway for like a hour it tends to get up to about half and stay there.

[YMJ]

my k03's have been making noise for around 4-5 months now!

i boost the shit out of it occasionaly so far its good! im not sure how much performance i've lost really!

but they are making noises! could last for awhile, but than again, you NEVER know when they will go BOOM!

[obijohn22]

Yo, where u at in MI?? If near the West side of the state/Grand Rapids, we are having a big meet the end of October off of 84th st and 131 S. PM or something man, the B5 S4 is growing over here on the West-side

I'm in Flint. I am planning on coming to the meet in october. hope to see you there

keep me posted on the details. it's oct 25 at 8pm right? sorry, I'm not trying to thread jack.

to the OP. shift at about 6000-6200 rpm. plus, get a vag com and do the 00032 recode of the tip software. it will give you control over 1st gear. so if you do any rolling starts from a light, you can hold first longer!

[LIFES4]

yeah i mean on decently hott days if im cruising 80,90 on the highway for like a hour it tends to get up to about half and stay there.

i mean i've seen it go up before when im really mashing on my car, but usually it would just stay on 150 no matter what.

[alias747]

i mean i've seen it go up before when im really mashing on my car, but usually it would just stay on 150 no matter what.

Yeah you need to get that checked out. You oil temp sender is not working correctly.

[LIFES4]

Yeah you need to get that checked out. You oil temp sender is not working correctly.

damn... the problems just keep adding up....

[Slow4]

Lol yes i am waiting for my next paycheck to get the awe vent boost guage... the only thing is the install looks rather complicated... i baby the car 90% of the time and sometimes when on the freeway il do some highway pulls but the chip is on stock mode so im on stock boost psi. anyways you say that you can drive off the motor the whole without the turbos kicking in. Thats impossible if you going 50 becuase your rpms will be around 2K and the turbos will the kick in. My question is can the turbos be kicking in without being in boost? also is boost activated pretty much everytime you floor the car?

1. Save your money and just buy a VDO guage (42DD sells something similiar to our red instrument cluster, I have one...got everything for $52, and did the vent job myself). Save that money for your "soon-to-be-blown" turbos. If you want to spend the extra $100 to get the AWE BOOST GUAGE...go for it. Personally, $250 for a center vent guage is a waste of money, because I almost bought. (Not saying bad stuff about the AWE Vent Guage). Plus...you'll get the feel of accomplishment once you put the vent boost guage together.

2. I'm no engineer nor am I a turbo-guru, like you, I'm a novice at this stuff. I do however know that if you're drive at 50, you're not really using your turbos. I just understand that my turbos are spooling to create boost needed to fill the engine with air, creating more combustion, thus making me go faster...or something along those lines. Plus, if you're strolling at 50, you should be hovering somewhere above ~21/2200 rpms. Your KO3s don't really kick in until somewhere along ~35/4000rpms, so unless you're driving down the highway in 3rd/4th gear...you're fine.

[00s4slvr]

thanks for all the help and im more of a novice then most people on these forums. Im probalby a n00b/novice level lol.

[Slow4]

thanks for all the help and im more of a novice then most people on these forums. Im probalby a n00b/novice level lol.

So do you understand the "noob" version of how spool and boost works on your car? I think I literally broke down so that any person can somewhat understand it and go "oooooh, THATS how it works"

[GunSupplier]

I'm no engineer nor am I a turbo-guru, like you, I'm a novice at this stuff. I do however know that if you're drive at 50, you're not really using your turbos. I just understand that my turbos are spooling to create boost needed to fill the engine with air, creating more combustion, thus making me go faster...or something along those lines. Plus, if you're strolling at 50, you should be hovering somewhere above ~21/2200 rpms. Your KO3s don't really kick in until somewhere along ~35/4000rpms, so unless you're driving down the highway in 3rd/4th gear...you're fine.

You've got it "sorta right." If you're just cruising at 50mph (or more) the turbos aren't making boost. They are spinning (they are always spinning when the engine is on) but they aren't boosting. The only time they start making boost is when there is a load placed on the engine. So, if you ease into the gas and start accelerating, THEN they start boosting, but not if you're just at a steady cruise. A steady cruise isn't a demanding enough task for the engine to "call for backup" from the turbos. It can handle just cruising around on its own.

That's why its possible for some guys on here to completely stay out of boost when the turbos are cold. They just granny shift way early, and use as little of the gas pedal as possible until the turbos are nice and warm. Even if you cruised at 3500 RPM, as long as you managed to keep your foot steady enough (or turned on the cruise control) you still wouldn't see a significant amount of boost from the turbos.

Oh, and the K03s kick in WAAYYY before 3500 RPM. Take a look here:

http://www.audiworld.com/model/s4/01/specs.shtml

Full torque on stock S4s arrives at a phenomenally low 1850 RPM. That's precisely because of the K03s. They are tiny turbos, and their primary strength is spooling fast and at very low RPM. Audi likes their turbo engines to make alot of low-end torque for great around town driveability.

Even when you go to K04s (which is a "mild" turbo for S4s, these days), you do lose a tiny fraction of that ridiculous low-end grunt, but the gains throughout the rest (2500 RPM +) of the rev-band outweigh the tiny loss in off-idle torque.

That response wasn't meant to be a beatdown or anything, Slow4, so don't take it personally. I'm just clarifying.

[Slow4]

Oh, and the K03s kick in WAAYYY before 3500 RPM. Take a look here:

http://www.audiworld.com/model/s4/01/specs.shtml

Full torque on stock S4s arrives at a phenomenally low 1850 RPM. That's precisely because of the K03s. They are tiny turbos, and their primary strength is spooling fast and at very low RPM. Audi likes their turbo engines to make alot of low-end torque for great around town driveability.

Oh reily!

Hm...I must be confusing something than.

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading that turbo spool begins somewhere around 1800RPM. But I also remember discussing something about PEAK boost around 3500-4000RPMs with our KO3s on a different forum.

Appreciate the clearing up the misconception.

[GunSupplier]

Oh reily!
Hm...I must be confusing something than.

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading that turbo spool begins somewhere around 1800RPM. But I also remember discussing something about PEAK boost around 3500-4000RPMs with our KO3s on a different forum.

Yeah, I mean, in the real world, you feel the acceleration much greater at 3500-4000, than at the published "1800RPM". If you just looked at the published numbers, you'd think that it would rip you out of your seat at 1800RPM, but that's just not the case. These cars do pull very well down low, but the first time I drove mine, I really wasn't as "shocked" as I thought I would be going off the pure numbers.

[00s4slvr]

yeah i understand now. Pretty much shift at about 2k rpms since i have the auto/tip until my car is warm then i can abuse it if i want too, and before shutting it down give it a min to idle so that the oil circulates???

[WMi_S4]

I'm in Flint. I am planning on coming to the meet in october. hope to see you there

keep me posted on the details. it's oct 25 at 8pm right? sorry, I'm not trying to thread jack.

to the OP. shift at about 6000-6200 rpm. plus, get a vag com and do the 00032 recode of the tip software. it will give you control over 1st gear. so if you do any rolling starts from a light, you can hold first longer!

8 pm @ the Country Kitchen off of 84th st and 131 S towards Kalamazoo. Looks like we have quite the crowd coming out so far

[GunSupplier]

yeah i understand now. Pretty much shift at about 2k rpms since i have the auto/tip until my car is warm then i can abuse it if i want too, and before shutting it down give it a min to idle so that the oil circulates???

Yeah, just wait until the oil has been warmed up to really push it. You don't necessarily HAVE to give it that minute before you shut it down. As long as you take it easy on the gas when driving for a minute or two before you need to park, the turbos will be cool enough without having to do the "minute idle" procedure.

The idle cool-down period only really applies if you were pushing the car right up until the last second before you park. You don't want the oil to suddenly stop flowing when the turbos are still red hot.