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Thread: DRL's

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    Veteran Member Four Rings harryd14's Avatar
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    DRL's

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    i currently dont have the daytime running lights on my B7, and i was wondering if there was anyway possible to do a conversion to DRL's from stock? anybody have any insight for me

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    Veteran Member Four Rings rudtf's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    don't have an answer for your question but most of us that have drls don't ever use em. i wouldn't unless i had the s5 leds.

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    Re: DRL's

    I have a U.S. 2007 B7 S4 and there's a an on off knob right beside the headlights. It's a knob that you turn from 0 to 1 to activate DRLs. There's another for the 'Coming Home/Going Away' feature. Check that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by harryd14 View Post
    i currently dont have the daytime running lights on my B7, and i was wondering if there was anyway possible to do a conversion to DRL's from stock? anybody have any insight for me

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    Senior Member Two Rings Richardesty's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by harryd14 View Post
    i currently dont have the daytime running lights on my B7, and i was wondering if there was anyway possible to do a conversion to DRL's from stock? anybody have any insight for me
    The only way of doing it is either to use a current lens, or add some DRL Lamps somewhere.......

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    Veteran Member Four Rings Sanjman's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    I thought every car has the DRL bulbs... just disabled... might be able enable through vag...

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    Registered Member Two Rings
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by sakimano View Post
    I have a U.S. 2007 B7 S4 and there's a an on off knob right beside the headlights. It's a knob that you turn from 0 to 1 to activate DRLs. There's another for the 'Coming Home/Going Away' feature. Check that out.
    My '08 A4 has those too. Is that because it has the HID headlamp option or do all the '08's have them?

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    Veteran Member Four Rings eMacPaul's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    I would think all would have the coming home feature, cause that uses the fogs, but DRL uses a bulb in the bi-xenon that's occupied in the halogens.

    So I think the DRL would be to turn on your headlights.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings airbornerifleman's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    It depends if your car has factory Xenons or Halogens. With Xenons it is possible to activate DRLs with the DRL switch under the headlight switch or with vag-com if you don't have the switch. If you have the halogen headlights then your daytime running light will be your front and rear markers along with fogs, this can be had also with vag-com. there is no DRL switch for halogen.
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie View Post
    don't have an answer for your question but most of us that have drls don't ever use em. i wouldn't unless i had the s5 leds.
    Just out of curiosity how come most people don't use their DRL's?

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings vwchop's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by sakimano View Post
    I have a U.S. 2007 B7 S4 and there's a an on off knob right beside the headlights. It's a knob that you turn from 0 to 1 to activate DRLs. There's another for the 'Coming Home/Going Away' feature. Check that out.
    yea my 06 b7 has this also i would think they all had them guess not.
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    Veteran Member Three Rings jstahmann's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFly View Post
    Just out of curiosity how come most people don't use their DRL's?
    DRLs only provide a benefit when other cars around them aren't using them so the car with the DRLs stands out. When every car has DRLs then its just like when nobody had DRLs.

    DRLs -

    http://www.lightsout.org/story.html

    "The Story of DRLs

    History
    In some countries, DRLs have been mandatory or in use since the 1970s, and some have noticed a decrease in only one or maybe two types of motor vehicle crashes. However, under reanalysis, the benefits of DRLs in these countries has been called into serious question. The countries that currently use and have used DRLs for many years are very different from the United States in culture, in government, and, most importantly, in latitude and climate.

    Scandinavian countries were the first to impose DRL regulations on manufacturers and on consumers. But Scandinavia, which is located in the far northern latitudes (i.e. North Pole,) has much less ambient lighting than the United States, especially in the winter. Naturally, then, DRLs would have a different impact on motorists and on highway safety. Yet it is to 20 year old studies from these countries that our government and our automobile manufacturers point to in support of DRL regulations.

    Sweden enacted mandatory DRL laws in 1977. Norway followed in 1986, Iceland in 1988, Denmark in 1990. Canada has required DRLs on new cars since 1989. Anyone with even a basic knowledge of geography, however, will see the plain and apparent differences between these nations and our own - their distance from the equator!

    Initially, NHSTA said safety experiences in northern countries had no direct application to the United States. But, in a strange reversal of tradition, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) began embracing DRL regulatory proposals at the request of petitions from General Motors. One need only follow the money trail to see why this has happened. The automobile industry has seen the massive economic potential of marketing their products to your fears, and has convinced the federal government to throw reliable data -- and common sense -- out the window.

    Because there is no conclusive evidence that DRLs present any real safety advantages, and because the United States does have more ambient lighting than countries where DRLs have been embraced, DRLs are NOT currently required in America. But if some people -- including the amazing special interest of the automobile industry -- have their way, we'll all soon be paying for their unique but unfounded marketing concept.

    Strangely, the road toward DRL acceptance by government regulators has been a twisted one. In 1987, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety proposed that NHTSA permit DRLs. NHTSA rejected the idea, but the Insurance Institute proposed the concept again a year later. Still, it was rejected, and NHTSA said that DRLs do not improve highway safety and may, in fact, INCREASE HIGHWAY HAZARDS. Quite simply, if most vehicles have DRLs, it's harder to spot those who do not. NHTSA also said glare from the DRLs of oncoming vehicles could bother some drivers.

    But in 1990, General Motors pushed NHTSA again, asking for a national standard permitting an optional DRL system. NHTSA complied two years later, and therein lies the problem. NHTSA regulations take precedence over any and all state laws, so now DRLs are legal in all states, when two-thirds of the states had previously banned DRLs altogether. Even worse, NHTSA permitted DRLs to be implemented on high beam headlamps at up to 7000 candela. This is well above the threshold for discomfort glare. Why? So that GM could make DRLs on the cheap.

    GM began installing DRLs immediately on some models in 1993. By 1997, all GM vehicles had installed. GM has kindly offered to SELL you a kit to convert your current vehicle to DRLs. How thoughtful -- and how very profitable.

    Finally, in 1998, after receiving several hundred complaints about the excessive glare and the overall effectiveness of DRLs, NHTSA proposed reductions in DRL intensities. The proposed reductions were overly generous to the auto manufacturers by permitting high beam DRLs to be used for another three years. In the end, after 4 years low beam DRLs would be allowed if they were no stronger than 1500cd above the horizontal. Due to vehicles operating at a higher voltage in the real world than in the lab, this figure would approach 2000cd when the car hit the road. In addition, there was no limit placed on the intensity below the horizontal. With such extreme vehicle height differences that we have today, from the Corvette to the 3500 Silverado, glare would continue to be a problem. Why the lax rule? Because NHTSA doesn't want to upset GM and its bottom line.

    Unfortunately, NHTSA failed to meet several self imposed deadlines for releasing a final rule. Part of the reason may be that members of LightsOut.ORG wanted proof that DRLs were effective in the US. In 2000, NHTSA released a preliminary assessment, claiming a 5% reduction in some non-fatal collisions and a 28% reduction in pedestrian fatalities. NHTSA's study was, as expected, full of holes. Read about the details on our Studies page. As of December, 2001, we're still waiting for NHTSA's final rule. In the meantime, GM and others are free to inflict high beam DRLs on the motoring public.

    On December 20, 2001, GM petitioned NHTSA to mandate DRLs for all new vehicles in the US. We can only guess what GM's motivation is. Perhaps, seeing their marketshare erode, they felt they could level the playing field with other manufacturers. If their competitors were forced to sell vehicles with DRLs, then those of us who refuse to purchase a car with DRLs would have no choice, and their competitors would have to include the cost of the mandatory DRLs in the vehicle's price. Another possibility is that GM has seen a preview of NHTSA's final rule and doesn't like it. By agreeing to respond to GM's petition within 120 days, NHTSA may have to yet again delay implementation of the rule for several more months. We can only hope that NHTSA will do The Right Thing and straighten out the mess that they created.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Case Against DRLs
    Unlike our opponents, we have clear reasons for our position, some of which you've already read:

    1. The original concept for DRLs was to compensate for a lighting deficiency. We don't have such a deficiency in the United States!

    2. Since we have greater natural light, the auto manufacturers have increased the intensity of their DRLs. Just what we need: Bright lights hitting your eyes while you're trying to drive a car on a busy highway!

    3. Safety features need not create hazards and, more to the point, should not be so very, very annoying to so many people. Humans, by our very nature, tend to avoid disturbing stimuli, thus taking our eyes off the road! Some people respond to DRLs by avoiding looking directly at other cars on the road. Some avoid using their rear- or side-view mirrors. Some are even using devices which are already on the market to reduce the glare from oncoming DRLs. These actions by people will result in them being less observant, therefore, worse drivers and more accident prone.

    4. Current data on the safety benefits of DRLs has been misinterpreted by proponents of DRLs. They have absolutely no positive effect on bright sunny days. The data should be interpreted thusly: People are not turning on their lights in conditions requiring illumination -- e.g. rain, snow, fog, dusk, dawn, etc. -- and therefore the problem is driver error. The solution, logically, should be driver improvement.

    5. Of all the myriad categories of motor vehicle crashes, DRL use is arguably associated with improving one, maybe two types. The better solution to highway safety is driver improvement; this would substantially and dramatically decrease accidents of all types.

    6. People will literally die because of DRL use. By failing to institute the correct solution to problems illustrated by DRL data -- driver error -- people will continue to die and be injured who might otherwise have been spared from such incidents. Furthermore, we believe the annoyance and distraction caused by DRL-equipped vehicles will be significant, but we also believe this will never be admitted or assigned to DRL use by their proponents.

    7. DRLs are an inefficient use of resources. Lights will have to be replaced more frequently, and it will have to be done by auto service personnel. Fuel consumption will increase and, although it's not much per car, it is an astronomical dollar figure when multiplied by the millions of vehicles in this country. Conservative estimates place the figure at 604 million gallons of fuel per year, resulting in 8 billion pounds of CO2 being exhausted into the atmosphere. What's even worse, in testing vehicles for fuel efficiency, GM has requested -- and received -- permission from the federal government to disconnect DRLs so as not to be penalized for poorer fuel efficiency. So consumers are not able to know how DRLs will affect their fuel efficiency when buying a car. See NHTSA's correspondence with the EPA regarding DRLs' CAFE exemption.

    8. DRLs represent stone-age technology in the 21st century. Since cars do not need illumination at all hours, why not install sensors to activate headlights when ambient light is insufficient? The technology exists, and is already in use on several vehicle models.

    9. DRLs are insulting to our intelligence. DRL proponents assume that drivers are not intelligent enough to know when to turn on their lights. By implication, then, DRL proponents are saying, in effect, that the states are licensing unqualified drivers! Driving is a skill. Observation is a skill. With proper experience and training, these skills are integrated in the person of a safe driver. Both of these skills can be nurtured or improved in every driver. But, neither skill will be enhanced in today's environment if it believes safety lies in the gadgets and misinterpreted data. Safety, in reality, is nothing more than the collective responsibility of each individual to be the best driver -- the most observant, the most cautious, the most defensive, the most skilled -- that he or she can be.

    10. What is the industry's motivation? Safety? We think not. Again, follow the money trail.

    Even some level heads within the automotive industry have been reluctant to embrace DRLs. "It's not that we are against them, but we haven't seen any real evidence of the safety benefits," said Chrysler spokesman Jason Vines. (Automotive News, 1995.) "We are not convinced yet that they're going to be beneficial," said Ford's manager of advance safety, Sherman Henson. And even GM's executives have their doubts: "The research on whether or not daytime running lights are effective is mixed," said the company's director of legal and safety issues.

    Many more U.S. industry and safety officials say the theory behind DRLs needs further testing. And some suggest that GM's motivation is sales, not safety. It makes sense, in a time when airbags, anti-lock brakes and built-in child-safety seats are all the rage in new-car advertising. "
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    Re: DRL's

    blah blah blah. thanks for the thread killing novel...the link alone would have sufficed!

    I think the point of DRLs (personally) is to improve visibility of cars coming towards you, not to differentiate one car from other cars, so that comment about how everyone having them makes them ineffective doesn't make ANY sense. That's like implying headlights on in the dark doesn't work because everyone has them.
    Last edited by sakimano; 09-28-2008 at 01:51 PM.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings harryd14's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    ok, well i currently have halogens but will shortly be purchasing retrofit xenons from Jens so if there anyway i could purchase and wire up a new light switch that enables me to do DRL, (which i believe is by turning it to the left, where as regular lights you have to turn to the right to turn your lights on)
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    Veteran Member Four Rings harryd14's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    and to sakimano - i'm afraid i dont understand what you are referring to with the going away coming home feature? is this just when you unlock and lock you car and the lights stay illuminated for a a short while to light up the area around you?
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    Veteran Member Three Rings jstahmann's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by sakimano View Post
    That's like implying headlights on in the dark doesn't work because everyone has them.
    Not really - we're talking daytime lights here not night time...
    John
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  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings Bart-Man's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    DRL's let me know a car is on.
    Alert me they are at an intersection.

    Its safety yet everyone turns them off because of looks.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings harryd14's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    so is there any way of adding this feature to my car by buying a new lighting switch for my car and the necessary wiring or not really?
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  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings Richardesty's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    Quote Originally Posted by harryd14 View Post
    so is there any way of adding this feature to my car by buying a new lighting switch for my car and the necessary wiring or not really?
    Well sort of......

    My last car, a Mazda 323f had Xenon dipped beams which were set up as 'always on' DRL's - but that turn of when you switch your city lights on.

    What you need to do is install a simple relay system - I have diagrams if you want to mail me - a system that uses a relay to turn something off, as opposed to turning it on!

    • When you turn your ignition key, the Dipped Beam lamps (or anything you wire it to) are activated.
    • When you turn on your city lights (or anything you decide to operate this feature) the 'DRL' lamps turn off = this is the relay doing the work.
    • When utilizing your dipped beam as DRL's - your rear lights are not on, where as if you used your City Lights as DRL's - the rear lights would also come on.


    By the way - the above explanation can also be used with ANY retro lamps/leds etc etc.

    Failing that - try some retro fit lamps like these:
    http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/5/6/6

    Here's an example of some 'lighting effects' I created using the above 'relay wiring' I mentioned:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LxfixMfcYlk

    By the way - there are three sets of relays working that lot
    I've always said - "One day I'll be able to afford a BMW, and when that day comes I'm gonna buy an Audi"

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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings harryd14's Avatar
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    Re: DRL's

    damn Richardesty, i love that video you posted, thats really cool, but dont think i need just as much as that. but i love how the led's turn from white to amber when the indicator is on!

    Basically what i want is that when i unlock my car for the fog lights and city lights to turn on (i believe that what it is) and then when you start the car the xenons also come on as well if i can remember properly from my friend's S4 (which maybe be slightly different from the A4 but i doubt it) and what i was wondering was if i could just go to audi and but the switch that has the DRL incorporated into it and just replace it with any necessary wiring.
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  20. #20
    Account Terminated Four Rings
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    Re: DRL's

    you missed...I'm saying your point about EVERYONE having them makes them ineffective is without any merit. I made a comparison to an equally absurd thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by jstahmann View Post
    Not really - we're talking daytime lights here not night time...

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