Question for you APR Stage 3+ guys

[Trevsaudi]

Alright i emailed this question to APR the other day and they haven't gotten back to me, so i figured i would ask you guys that already have it while i wait, I have a 2004 A4 1.8tqm 6spd USP, stock aside from a cat back thermal exhaust system (street).

If i ordered APR's stage 3+ kit ($5299) right now, would it come with everything i need to be up and running 100% ? or are they going to bust out some hidden extra costs? like does it come with the FMIC or a new DV? what about the ECU management software?

They really need to address these things in the product description all it says is all associated hardware and plumbing is included which leads me to believe that EVERYTHING needed is included, but then they sat something like "stage1 and 2 customers will receive the stage 3+ software at no additional fee, which tells me that there is normally an additional fee for those of us with no current APR software. hmmmmmmmm!

anyone know some info on this?

[A4ringedONE8T]

It does not include a FMIC or a DV, you would need that in addition to the kit. It does include software and injectors

[F16HTON]

Realistically it is $7,000 because you need a FMIC (I recommend the ER Competition and a clutch as well)

[Trevsaudi]

$$$ ouchy

Ok thats kind of what i figured, as for the ER comp fmic yeah ive had several people recommend that, it is apparently "the shiznit", just kind of super expensive as well, but hey if i'm spending 1000 on an fmic i may as well drop the extra 500 for a good one, plus i live in South Florida so definitely need to beat the heat.

One more thing, i know the apr 3+ kit has bigger injectors that let you use way more fuel compared to stock when your pumpin' that boost...obviously, but what about when i'm just barely on the throttle, not into boost, will i still be able to get good 30+ mpg highway like i would be able to with a stock setup?

[GTMRS4]

$$$ ouchy

Ok thats kind of what i figured, as for the ER comp fmic yeah ive had several people recommend that, it is apparently "the shiznit", just kind of super expensive as well, but hey if i'm spending 1000 on an fmic i may as well drop the extra 500 for a good one, plus i live in South Florida so definitely need to beat the heat.

One more thing, i know the apr 3+ kit has bigger injectors that let you use way more fuel compared to stock when your pumpin' that boost...obviously, but what about when i'm just barely on the throttle, not into boost, will i still be able to get good 30+ mpg highway like i would be able to with a stock setup?

The 3+ kit has 550cc injectors and the stock pump is good for it. I'm presently getting 28-32mpg on the highway

[A4ringedONE8T]

O shit, didnt even realize you were in Tampa, we need to meet up before you buy anything regarding a turbo setup

[pondside36]

^^^^Definatly talk to this guy here... two thumbs up

[dougyfresh]

One more thing, i know the apr 3+ kit has bigger injectors that let you use way more fuel compared to stock when your pumpin' that boost...obviously, but what about when i'm just barely on the throttle, not into boost, will i still be able to get good 30+ mpg highway like i would be able to with a stock setup?

If you are out of boost (ie: cruising on the highway) you'll get better gas mileage than stock. I have 630injectors and a bigger motor and I'm getting better gas mileage than stock. The car breathes better and is more efficient with a bigger turbo than the K03. As a result, running on the highway (cruising) I'm pulling 10inches of mercury (vacuum) but the power is there (boost) when I step on it.

[Papachristou]

i dont mean to be an asshole but are you really considering spending $7-8 grand on your car to be worried about a few MPG?

[dougyfresh]

My Audi gets more mileage per gallon than any other vehicle I own (except my bicycles). And it is probably the most powerful too.

[Trevsaudi]

O shit, didnt even realize you were in Tampa, we need to meet up before you buy anything regarding a turbo setup

Yeah for sure, sarasota is where my gf is from so im down there pretty often...even though it is filled with those killing machines behind the wheel aka old people, but i'll definitely keep you in mind for when i start the wheels in motion on my turbo upgrade

i dont mean to be an asshole but are you really considering spending $7-8 grand on your car to be worried about a few MPG?

I like efficiency? =\ ...and the environment? =o lol i dunno i just hate filling up all the time, and i like to be able to gloat to all my friends with ford explorers or whatever else that my car looks better/is faster/gets way better mpg, and probably will drive through snow/ice/rain/dirt better than whatever they have. but when you put it that way it does sound kinda silly...

[A4ringedONE8T]

My car can get 10, 20, and 30mpg, all in the same day Regarding the 3+, yea alot of money for old school BT performance!

[Trevsaudi]

I chose the apr because im trying to lean more towards dependability and longevity of my turbo/engine rather than huge amounts of hp, and 270awhp(somewhere around that is what ive been hearing) is exactly what im looking for tho i wish i could just even it out right at 300.

I looked at the eurocode revo/gtrs setup but it just seemed like they cut corners in the engineering process (although thats probably not true...) i dont like the smaller turbine housing they used to fit the stock manifold, not to mention i do not like the atp manifold at all (although i really have no reason to dislike it aside from APR's is just way more.....awesome)

I dunno, i still have some time to think and could still change my mind due to the price of the APR system, plus everyone seems to like the elim kits...we shall see!

[A4ringedONE8T]

I dunno, i still have some time to think and could still change my mind due to the price of the APR system, plus everyone seems to like the elim kits...we shall see!

When you ride in my car ... you'll change your mind ATP & top mount turbo's FTW! Hidden shit that looks stock FTL!

[rxrep]

I got five bucks Shawn that in normal street driving, the APR kit, with its "old school BT" will not show much of a difference to a driver from any of the newer BAT stuff out there. We don't all live 1/4 mile at a time. And hidden shit that looks stock gets us through state inspection (for those states who have it).
I still giggle like a kid every time I drive mine. It is fast. Very fast. And very quick. I can't see needing any more than what I have. I regularly whip up on cars that would beat a stock A4 badly. It takes a pretty heavily modded anything to take me. While in FL those types of cars may be everywhere, up here they are few and far between. Beating Rustangs and GTO's sits just fine with me and I don't need to be any faster than that.
There was a guy running APR Stage 3+ at Waterfest with NO other mods. He ran stock exhaust and stock intercooler and stock DV. You can do it. Doesn't mean you should, but you can. I ran 710n with no problems and only bought Forge because I got a good deal.
I just really think the APR kit is worth every penny as far as being a great mix between speed/quickness, and reliability.

[Papachristou]

we all want efficiency and care about the environment but those dont really go hand in hand...

as most have already posted, you can still get 28-32mpg in a BT/BAT car but not if you are driving it hard! its all up to you.. i just dont see many people making their cars 300-400hp and spending $10-25k and being that concerned about their gas mileage

[Trevsaudi]

I still giggle like a kid every time I drive mine. It is fast. Very fast. And very quick. I can't see needing any more than what I have.

Are you running the apr 3+ setup?

As for the stock appearance thing, i really really really reeeeeeeealy prefer stock appearance to the whole showing off my big turbo to my buddies, you know, speak softly but carry a big stick... i dont want the attention, i dont want people to pull up beside me because im all decked out with racing gear, but if they do they sure as hell wont expect whats coming.

[A4ringedONE8T]

Are you running the apr 3+ setup?

As for the stock appearance thing, i really really really reeeeeeeealy prefer stock appearance to the whole showing off my big turbo to my buddies, you know, speak softly but carry a big stick... i dont want the attention, i dont want people to pull up beside me because im all decked out with racing gear, but if they do they sure as hell wont expect whats coming.

When someone looks at the engine bay of your car, you tell them any HP number 300 or higher and they laugh at you saying yea right ... whether they just got their ass handed to them or not, you will want some visual reference of what hides within. I'm all up for a sleeper appearance car and outside but nothing to hide when the hoods open!!!

You can't honestly say (unless you need to pass state inspection like Lee said, then I would agree) that you would rather see this under the hood of your measly A4

GTRS, similar power to the 3+



OR

[F16HTON]

All show...no go

[zemun2]

I will take APR 3+ over any kit on the market hands down.
Its a masterpiece of engineering.

[Trevsaudi]

That kit definitely looks nice and everything, really clean engine bay, very very nice setup there, but honestly i could care less if anyone sees it or not, i buy the turbo so I can enjoy the feeling of acceleration, and I know the turbo is there, and thats all that really matters to me. I'm not against it i mean if i found a top mount kit for sale somewhere for an amazing price and the components were all kosher i would definitely buy it, but when it comes down to it, i just like stock appearance.

zemun2, agreed

[GO-GOTEKNO]

+3 Is way too overpriced APR got away with it for a long time,but now they are way behind the powercurve

[rxrep]

Are you running the apr 3+ setup?

As for the stock appearance thing, i really really really reeeeeeeealy prefer stock appearance to the whole showing off my big turbo to my buddies, you know, speak softly but carry a big stick... i dont want the attention, i dont want people to pull up beside me because im all decked out with racing gear, but if they do they sure as hell wont expect whats coming.

I am running it, with tweaked timing via Unitronics. Don't get me wrong, I love what some of the guys are doing now with the big ass turbos and am envious when I see one actually RUN for longer than a few weeks, but I really love my car set up the way it is, and in the grand scheme of things, knocking a second or less off in a 1/4 mile doesn't mean much to me. Especially if it sacrifices what can be done on a track with turns in it.
My car doesn't feel "modded". It drives the way you'd think it should from the factory. Very smooth, and very linear, and very fast and quick. Not that what the BAT guys are doing ISN'T that, but for what I want (a V8 beater in the straights and the turns), it is everything I could ask for, with the feeling of assurance that this kit, especially the masterpiece that is the manifold, isn't going to fail on me.
Anything more on this car is overkill IMHO.
Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the guys going balls to the wall. And I love that big hair dryer, for sure. But I still like this just as much, lol:

[A4ringedONE8T]

All show...no go

Ahh so you helped me build a POS huh?

[dirtybrd]

I put over 700 miles a week on my BAT big cammed 2.0L. As long as I shift at 3k, go 7 mph over the posted speed limit, and STAY OUT OF BOOST, I get 400 miles to a tank. But, a few hard pulls and it's 350 a tank. I can't get anyone to do some highway runs with me. In the last 4 days I've tried with 2 Vettes, a Carrera C4S, a SRT10 pick-up and a few others...no dice.

[A4ringedONE8T]

I put over 700 miles a week on my BAT big cammed 2.0L. As long as I shift at 3k, go 7 mph over the posted speed limit, and STAY OUT OF BOOST, I get 400 miles to a tank. But, a few hard pulls and it's 350 a tank. I can't get anyone to do some highway runs with me. In the last 4 days I've tried with 2 Vettes, a Carrera C4S, a SRT10 pick-up and a few others...no dice.

I got a good run on my way home today. Friends A6 2.7T, AWE software, intercoolers, exhaust, whatever pipe those guys replace up, mid, something, ... his car running 21psi vs my car on 20psi T7, I put a solid 3 cars on him 60-130

[dougyfresh]

I got a good run on my way home today. Friends A6 2.7T, AWE software, intercoolers, exhaust, whatever pipe those guys replace up, mid, something, ... his car running 21psi vs my car on 20psi T7, I put a solid 3 cars on him 60-130

K03s on a 2.7 = not a chance on a BT A4

I chose the apr because im trying to lean more towards dependability and longevity of my turbo/engine rather than huge amounts of hp, and 270awhp(somewhere around that is what ive been hearing) is exactly what im looking for tho i wish i could just even it out right at 300.

I looked at the eurocode revo/gtrs setup but it just seemed like they cut corners in the engineering process (although thats probably not true...) i dont like the smaller turbine housing they used to fit the stock manifold, not to mention i do not like the atp manifold at all (although i really have no reason to dislike it aside from APR's is just way more.....awesome)

I dunno, i still have some time to think and could still change my mind due to the price of the APR system, plus everyone seems to like the elim kits...we shall see!

The APR kit has a ton of research and design behind it from each individual piece of hardware to the software itself. It is designed to put out dependable power day in and day out and be safe on the stock AMB 1.8T. It is designed very well.

The GTRS kit is also designed well. It also looks and retains the OEM-like appearance. It just does it in a different fashion (OEM turbo-manifold interface etc...

You can not go wrong with either kit but the APR kit has proven durability whereas the the GTRS kit is battling cracking exhaust manifolds. In the end, it comes down to preference and they are two very good robust packages available.

[A4ringedONE8T]

K03s on a 2.7 = not a chance on a BT A4

It has no problem going to the track, going right out on the 1/4 mile and running a 13.1 week after week on straight 93 octane. Besides once a 2.7T goes to K04's, they are easily 400+ awhp, definitely not beatable by a pump gas BT/BAT 1.8T, stroked or not

[AB18]

I had a Apr stage 3 kit on my B5 A4 and i absolutely loved it. Now i only had a gt28r,(280hp) kit, but my A4 was catless and only about 3100pd, so i would assume it was pretty on par with a Apr stage 3+ b6 kit. I would suggest an Apr kit to anyone and for me, they stood behind it. I was having problems running extremely rich at idle for about a month. The car would not run and after trouble shooting with Apr for a few weeks, they said they accidently forget a resistor that needed to be solderd on my ecu(this was a 99.5 A4, about 3yrs ago, before flashing came along.) Because off the trouble i had, they refunded 1k off my kit, if thats not service im not sure what is.

[Trevsaudi]

is there a thread on here listing all the different complete turbo upgrade packages? i know theres the sticky in DIY with the comparisons of the turbos themselves.....but what about the kits, like APR or the eurocode REVO/GTRS "complete solution" etc etc

[A4ringedONE8T]

Just search, theres plenty of info on each of these setups, hell theres enough threads just in the 1st page of the B6 section right now to tell you all you need to know!!!

[dougyfresh]

It has no problem going to the track, going right out on the 1/4 mile and running a 13.1 week after week on straight 93 octane. Besides once a 2.7T goes to K04's, they are easily 400+ awhp, definitely not beatable by a pump gas BT/BAT 1.8T, stroked or not

Did I say Ko4s? NO. I said 2.7T with Ko3s. I know I have no chance against a 2.7T with Ko4s. Ko3s? Yes, I've got a chance.

[A4ringedONE8T]

Did I say Ko4s? NO. I said 2.7T with Ko3s. I know I have no chance against a 2.7T with Ko4s. Ko3s? Yes, I've got a chance.

I know you didnt say K04's, you said K03 2.7T's werent shit for a BT 1.8T, I was adding that I wouldnt be gloating about a 2.7T with K04's because it would have smoked me most likely. A 13.1 is still a respectable time, and for how I pulled on him, on only 20psi, well that should tell you something about an ET for my car no?