Meth alone

[generationjdm]

I think Meth would cool plenty fine with no ics below ambient temps can be acheived, if setup right and tested. Maybe i will give it a try How nice would it be, no ic, ic piping, no pressure lost from the ic and spool would improve

[JDM EJ1 95]

like 100% meth? as in like through a WM kit.. on top of gasoline?

or 50/50


because 100% meth is a bad idea..

[SilverSurferS4]

It can be done.. some of the big boy draggers run 50+ psi of boost with straight meth/alcohol injection no intercooler.. I guess if you did the r&d its very possible on the s4

[generationjdm]

like 100% meth? as in like through a WM kit.. on top of gasoline?

or 50/50


because 100% meth is a bad idea..

why is 100% a bad idea? I would use denature alky which is 100% ethanol, which theres s4s running this at 100% along with meth

[generationjdm]

It can be done.. some of the big boy draggers run 50+ psi of boost with straight meth/alcohol injection no intercooler.. I guess if you did the r&d its very possible on the s4

I think it may be a lot easier then people think. Even on a car with coolers the meth is doing most of the cooling anyway

[generationjdm]

This would be even better on a gt car as the ait temps are cooler then lets say a k03 car running some moderate boost, so i think if it will cool the k03 car it will cool the larger turbo cars for sure

[xx_s4quattro_xx]

Meth is good. J/K

[JMTx86]

I think you'd have to lean out your tune, i was toying with the idea with my evo, I was thinking of running 2 pumps to make sure everything was kosh. You'd also be able to run A LOT more timing which would be nice.

[AudiSportB5S4]

cool idea. that would be interesting

[JDM EJ1 95]

why is 100% a bad idea? I would use denature alky which is 100% ethanol, which theres s4s running this at 100% along with meth

once you go past 50/50 it turns into a combustable liquid... like they said.. youll probably have to tune it out and lean out the mix of regular gasoline.. but that leads to issues.. one clogged nozzle.. one minor pump hicup.. bye motor.

[Das General]

I think in the long run, it would be more cost effective to just run an intercooler.

I have never actually heard of this being done, so I am not sure how well it works. If it did work, and worked so well, why don't we hear about big tuners doing so?

[generationjdm]

DEB, There hundreds upon hundreds of REAL race cars that make 4 digit whp numbers running there cars this way.. this is nothing new as this stuff was used in the 40ss on military planes... If you haven't noticed by now i dont always do thing the same way as the big tuners, plus my idea of a big tuner and many others may be a little different.. It would be more cost effective to not touch the car at all.

People are running meth and coolers, ers 1400 meth 400 hmmmmmmmm..

You could easily run the stock coolers or a less costly cooler with meth, i may go this route who knows

[NYCVR6]

It can be done.. some of the big boy draggers run 50+ psi of boost with straight meth/alcohol injection no intercooler.. I guess if you did the r&d its very possible on the s4

I think some of you are confusing meth injection on a gasoline motor, with running an actual alcohol motor.

[Das General]

DEB, There hundreds upon hundreds of REAL race cars that make 4 digit whp numbers running there cars this way.. this is nothing new as this stuff was used in the 40ss on military planes... If you haven't noticed by now i dont always do thing the same way as the big tuners, plus my idea of a big tuner and many others may be a little different.. It would be more cost effective to not touch the car at all.

People are running meth and coolers, ers 1400 meth 400 hmmmmmmmm..

You could easily run the stock coolers or a less costly cooler with meth, i may go this route who knows

I am talking about long term costs. Meaning after xxxx fill ups with gallons of meth, will eventually cost more than a 1400 IC setup.

[generationjdm]

I spoke with the owner of one of the most well none injection company today and theres plenty of cars far beyond are S4ss doing this and have been for a long time.. Something i may look into

[GURUMAN]

For myself, I was gonna upgrade my chinese FMIC to a Precision core, but afetr readind this tread, I'm simply gonna install right away my water meth and set it to start a 10 psi where I saw my IAT going up...

[generationjdm]

I am talking about long term costs. Meaning after xxxx fill ups with gallons of meth, will eventually cost more than a 1400 IC setup.

theres people running costly coolers and meth, so the cost of meth is cheaper for them?

Race gas is close to 18.00 a gallon around here, i think running the meth is cheaper no matter how you slice it... Not modding your car is the cheapest thing in the long run.

[generationjdm]

For myself, I was gonna upgrade my chinese FMIC to a Precision core, but afetr readind this tread, I'm simply gonna install right away my water meth and set it to start a 10 psi where I saw my IAT going up...

This has already been done on another board on a s4. They used the stock coolers with meth and the out come was better then any cooler alone

[Das General]

What I am saying is your long term cost of ER IC vs. Straight Meth is going to be

1400 vs. 400 (initial costs) + the cost of each gallon of meth for the next year or however long you keep the car. At $40 for a couple gallons of meth, you are going to start seeing the costs coming more towards the ER kit, and it only becomes more cost effective for ER as you keep the car longer.

[generationjdm]

You can get the stuff for 5-6 bucks a galloon sometimes a lot less and if you mix it 50?50 its cheaper then gas, plus how often will u use the meth anyways, only when beating on the car... running meth on icss is a cheap performance gain you will never get that performance with just ics alone thats why people are doing it, and it is safer then running just coolers alone.

[Das General]

I am not arguing whether it performs better or not. I am just saying the cost of it will be more than an IC setup, in the long term. That is all I am saying. You said your car wasn't going to be designed for race...but this seems like a more race type application. = )

[JMTx86]

I am not arguing whether it performs better or not. I am just saying the cost of it will be more than an IC setup, in the long term. That is all I am saying. You said your car wasn't going to be designed for race...but this seems like a more race type application. = )

This is far superior to any IC, A LOT less piping and the ability to run CRAZY tunes that you would be able to do on reg pump + ic. However I don't think this is practical for a daily driven car, your pump(s) fail you have your self a problem.

[generationjdm]

I am not arguing whether it performs better or not. I am just saying the cost of it will be more than an IC setup, in the long term. That is all I am saying. You said your car wasn't going to be designed for race...but this seems like a more race type application. = )

So any car that wishes to cool his ait is a race car?

Let me rephrase, I would like cooler ait without buying ics if i dont have to, if the added benefits are there great, like less weight, more spool, no pressure drop

[generationjdm]

If you are worried about cost bye a mustang.

A lot of this board has turned into "Well it cost more this way is cheaper blahblahblah"

[Das General]

So any car that wishes to cool his ait is a race car?

Let me rephrase, I would like cooler ait without buying ics if i dont have, if the added benefits are there great, like less weight, more spool, no pressure drop

No. I just don't see that as a daily driving type of cooling setup.

A lot of this board has turned into "Well it cost more this way is cheaper blahblahblah"

I am hardly doing anything on the cheap. You just seem to have this thought that this will be cheaper than a set of intercoolers, which I highly doubt it is.

[GURUMAN]

But overall performance in weather like Waterfest this year, your better off with water/meth than a big intercooler.

[generationjdm]

No. I just don't see that as a daily driving type of cooling setup.



I am hardly doing anything on the cheap. You just seem to have this thought that this will be cheaper than a set of intercoolers, which I highly doubt it is.

I think your confused, If i can do this and have better results all around then why should i piss away 1400.00 bucks.. Theres a diff in trying to be mod wise and cheap...

Also last i check when your turbo car isnt under boost ie daily driving then its just like a N/A car, so why do i need coolers on a NA car?

[generationjdm]

But overall performance in weather like Waterfest this year, your better off with water/meth than a big intercooler.

exactly! Plus the added tuning benefits and safety mods that can be installed with a kit..

[Das General]

I think your confused, If i can do this and have better results all around then why should i piss away 1400.00 bucks.. Theres a diff in trying to be mod wise and cheap...

Also last i check when your turbo car is under boost ie daily driving then its just like a N/A car, so why do i need coolers on a NA car?

No that is fine.

I was just under the impression that you thought that your all meth setup would be cheaper than ER's. That was my whole understand.

But I am not arguing the performance factor.

[NYCVR6]

Just drive around with c16 in all the time.

[generationjdm]

When im just driving and not under boost i really dont need any coolers, so i figure this may be the way to go.. Plus since am a gt car the extra spool and weight reduction couldnt hurt

[A4ringedONE8T]

Ive ran straight Sunoco M100 (methanol) in my car many times using a Snow stage 2 w/m setup. Without any tuning modifications, the wideband reads almost exactly a point leaner than with a w/m mix. As stated, keep in mind straight meth is HIGHLY combustible not only in the engine but in the lines, pump, and whatever your holding it in IN the engine bay! It is a night and day difference between a mix and straight, even without any additional tuning tweaks. Nothing special to do it, just give it a try if you already have a meth setup, just be sure to keep an eye on vagcom or a wideband to make sure everything stays in check.

And unless on SEM, you have the lovely abilities of ME7 (for my car) to retard stuff well .. if it gets retarded

[generationjdm]

I should of did this when the motor was out as the best place for the nozzle/jet would of been at the turbo nozzle. Maybe a smaller set in between that set and the tb also. I nhear people running the denature alky and loving it

[A4ringedONE8T]

Do not put a nozzle BEFORE the intercooler(s), the nozzle(s) need to be directly before the throttle body, after the throttle plate if someone makes an adaptor plate for the 2.7T, or if running multiple nozzles, one right after an IC and one pre TB will work as well. Never ever before an intercooler though, they will pool up with water/meth/mix... over time

[generationjdm]

Do not put a nozzle BEFORE the intercooler(s), the nozzle(s) need to be directly before the throttle body, after the throttle plate if someone makes an adaptor plate for the 2.7T, or if running multiple nozzles, one right after an IC and one pre TB will work as well. Never ever before an intercooler though, they will pool up with water/meth/mix... over time

Im saying with no intercooler on the car just meth

[A4ringedONE8T]

Im saying with no intercooler on the car

Ahh, thought you meant with no addition of aftermarket intercoolers or a FMIC. So you're taking them out all together and coming right off the compressors into the throttle body. Hmmm ... yea you better REALLY trust that meth setup!!! Have you considered or thought about an air/water intercooler setup? I take it your trying to keep the charge pipe short and simplify the system? Just looked over your "GT project," while a budget is understandable, definitely doesn't seem like your trying to be cheap yet have less pressure drop and a simpler system

[NYCVR6]

I should of did this when the motor was out as the best place for the nozzle/jet would of been at the turbo nozzle. Maybe a smaller set in between that set and the tb also. I nhear people running the denature alky and loving it

From my recent research, that is one of the worst places for nozzle placement. Ideally, they say right before the TB.. Let me see if i can dig up the link i saw, it was pretty in depth..

Edit: http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...icle_info.html

[A4ringedONE8T]

From my recent research, that is one of the worst places for nozzle placement. Ideally, they say right before the TB.. Let me see if i can dig up the link i saw, it was pretty in depth..

Edit: http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...icle_info.html

If he is removing the intercoolers, anywhere between the compressor outlet and the throttle plate would be fine In that case, the best setup would be a 3 nozzle setup, one directly after each turbo and a single nozzle directly before the throttle plate. This way the nozzles directly after the turbo's will drop the IAT charge as much as possible, and the nozzle directly before the TB will still allow for a "wet" intake charge for detonation control in the cylinders

[generationjdm]

If you put a large shot right at the tb you will puddle for sure, ive spoke to the owner of devils own and a few other guys and they all say thats the best with no cooler unless you run direct port. The stuff needs time to atomize

[generationjdm]

If he is removing the intercoolers, anywhere between the compressor outlet and the throttle plate would be fine In that case, the best setup would be a 3 nozzle setup, one directly after each turbo and a single nozzle directly before the throttle plate. This way the nozzles directly after the turbo's will drop the IAT charge as much as possible, and the nozzle directly before the TB will still allow for a "wet" intake charge for detonation control in the cylinders

thats exactly how i would run it