Verry disapointed ..especially on APR !!

[dandmx04]

I don't know if u remember my last tread , here is a hint:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218939

...i had all the parts necesary in order to make this car quick (beside BT) so the last thing that i need was the pump file from APR. I talked with them (Andy Jhonson from APR ) in may this year after i bought the pump. At the begining they didn't have the file perfomrnace file for my ecu and after one or two weeks when i called him back and he said that the performance file is on server so i should get in touch with the dealer from Berlin (wich i did) in order to get the update.

Due to the fact that i had some bad luck regarding this car , meaning that my clutch died and i had to replace the hole kit including flywheel , my 3rd synchro died also and nedeed replaced, beside that i had other problems the time passed and it was september when i decide to make the trip to Germany/Berlin in order to get this upgrade. On my way to Berlin the cluch began to slip...in the 5/6 gear around 2700rpm and i didn't pay any attention because i was very excited about the update i was going to do.
I arrived at the APR Berlin dealer and i made the update .. and honestly i didn't see and improvement . I didn't say anything because i was planing to go to a dyno to see exactly how i stand , but i asked him wich hp should i expect ..and he said around 272 because they had an a3 with similar upgrades and put out 272hp..




The next day i was doing i dyno/maha session at Porsche Zentrum Berlin..and guess what , my thought regarding the way car performed was true..i put out only 254hp,i was very disapointed . I went back at the APR dealer and showed him the paper and asked him if this is normal..he shoked me , he said that right now i only have " accomodation file " and NOT the performance file . At that moment i was verrry angry...i drove 4000 km just to get a test pipe erase code and an accomodation file for the pump...wich honestly i didn't care about it and more..the clutch began to lose grip . I don't think that there is someone who spent 1000$ fot that pump and asked for the accomodation file. I explained to him that i talked to Andy from APR USA told me that there is a performance file on sever..but in vain . I waited a few hours for him to get in touch with APR USA..and the final was dramatic: " at this moment there isn't any performance file for your ecu" .

Here is my dyno sheet and some photos from the Porsche dyno








So my trip to Germany was a complete failure. Costs involved :
- around 1000$ for fuell
- around 1500$ for a flywheel+clutch replacement (not done yet)
- 150$ for dyno/Maha

..don't want to complain , but if the car really gained some serious hp after all those mods i would have been verry happy and those huge costs were no longer be discussed.

Untill now here are the most important parts that failed :
- the oem clutch died after 6k km ( the car was 18.5k km when i bought it) and i replaced only the clutch with SouthBendClutch
- after another 7k km or so.. the complete kit needed replaced , so i bought something "strong" Fx 400 from Clutchmasters and Oem Flywheel
- in the mean time the 3rd syncro began to make strange noises so i bought the 3rd synchro repair kit and replace it
- and finally after this trip even the fx400 with kevlar and bla bla didn't hold up so when i tooked the car at the service shop and the mechanic told me that both parts need to be replaced..flywheel and clutch. The clutch with his strong material lose texture and also the flywheel is demaged because of the material used on clutch.

Right now the car runs with the same clutch but with the old clutch from SouthBendClutch. This is not a permanent solution .. i need a good advice regardin on what clutch+flywheel should i go next ?
I also removed the test pipe and the Forge DV because since i didnt see any spectacular gains for the hole package of mods i don't have reason for keeping that noisy upgrade. After all these problems that i had and all these money that i throw i have to say that there was a period when i wanted to sell the car and forget about all this

I really want to decide on wich setup shoud i go (clutch+flywheel) because this time i want to try a chiptuning from my country and see the difference. I was very disapointed on APR and due to this situation and i think i'll go AWE/Giac as soon as the BT comes out.

[Auditude2.0T]

254 to the wheels??? If its to the wheels those numbers are impressive. Remember An A3 has less of a drivetrain loss because its FWD and the Transverse motors put out more power.

[Glassnpowder98]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck, that really sucks... Can you tell me more about what is happening with your third gear? I'm having some problems with mine too. After driving hard for an extended period of time, I get a short grind as I put the shifter into 3rd (with the clutch pressed in). Is this like what you are experiencing? However, my problem seems to go away after 2-3 days of normal driving...

[dandmx04]

254 to the wheels??? If its to the wheels those numbers are impressive. Remember An A3 has less of a drivetrain loss because its FWD and the Transverse motors put out more power.

Those Hp are for sure Not to the wheels , if u read my post u'll find that i don't have any performance pump file..by the way i red all u'r posts and because i have most of your mods and more i hoped my car will run very fast, but i was verrry disapointed

[dandmx04]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad luck, that really sucks... Can you tell me more about what is happening with your third gear? I'm having some problems with mine too. After driving hard for an extended period of time, I get a short grind as I put the shifter into 3rd (with the clutch pressed in). Is this like what you are experiencing? However, my problem seems to go away after 2-3 days of normal driving...

That's exactly what happend..it all begins with some dragracing that i do sometimes . First time it's a grind when engaging 3rd gear..but not all the time.After some hard driving it makes that sound almost all the time..and u need to change the 3rd synchro

[davis449]

Those Hp are for sure Not to the wheels , if u read my post u'll find that i don't have any performance pump file..by the way i red all u'r posts and because i have most of your mods and more i hoped my car will run very fast, but i was verrry disapointed

Dyno's measure HP at the wheels, what was your actual Dyno read? If the paper says 254, non-corrected, that means you were pushing 254 at the wheels and that is an impressive number for a Quattro.

[Glassnpowder98]

I'm not fully convinced that it is the synchro that is bad since it does not happen all of the time (and because I'm not ready to drop $3000 to fix it). I think that the transmission gets hot and things start to expand causing the gears and synchro to grind. In the next few weeks I am going to try to change my transmission fluid to something a little bit better that stands up better to heat. I'll let you know if that works for me...

[gjc]

OUCH! Should've just bought an S4 to start with.

[EMAXX]

I'm sorry to hear that you are not happy with them. I hope everything gets worked out for the best.

[dandmx04]

I'm not fully convinced that it is the synchro that is bad since it does not happen all of the time (and because I'm not ready to drop $3000 to fix it). I think that the transmission gets hot and things start to expand causing the gears and synchro to grind. In the next few weeks I am going to try to change my transmission fluid to something a little bit better that stands up better to heat. I'll let you know if that works for me...

At the begining i refused also to blame the 3rd synchro because..as u said it doesn't make that grinding all the time , but if it begins to do that..then u know what u have to do
I hope u do fine..

[tribe]

If the clutch is slipping it might not be putting all the power to the wheels. Just a thought.

[bhvrdr]

Dyno's measure HP at the wheels, what was your actual Dyno read? If the paper says 254, non-corrected, that means you were pushing 254 at the wheels and that is an impressive number for a Quattro.

Not the MAHA dyno. Another poster here thought that he was getting 275whp on the MAHA as well. It was actually 195whp and 275 chp. The MAHA reads whp, then calculates chp, then calculates ambient corrected chp. It does a coast down procedure to measure the drag. It then calculates crank hp and gives you that number.

Regarding the clutch failure, I have no idea why that is happening. The OEM clutch seems able to handle every bit of the power you are throwing at it and i'd go with OEM as long as you can. There's plenty of people running over 300hp on stock clutches. I've yet to find an aftermarket clutch perform as nicely as the OEM. I've gone aftermarket, but only when I had to and I never liked the feel as much.

cheers! Mike

[B7!]

I'm not fully convinced that it is the synchro that is bad since it does not happen all of the time (and because I'm not ready to drop $3000 to fix it). I think that the transmission gets hot and things start to expand causing the gears and synchro to grind. In the next few weeks I am going to try to change my transmission fluid to something a little bit better that stands up better to heat. I'll let you know if that works for me...

face it, its your synchro!! i had the exact same problem and had to fork out 4k to get it fixed..

[bhvrdr]

face it, its your synchro!! i had the exact same problem and had to fork out 4k to get it fixed..

Yup! You could always put some Gear 300 from Motul in it. It has the same good cold pour qualities as the excellent OEM synthetic with even better high temp properties. I wouldnt use anything else. Redline MT90 has worse cold properties so you may notch it up even worse during warm up although it may feel smoother when hot. cheers! Mike

[Geoffafa]

once again APR takes a shit on another customer.... im beginning to see a pattern, arent you guys?

[bhvrdr]

once again APR takes a shit on another customer.... im beginning to see a pattern, arent you guys?

In all fairness, dont many of the other companies just use the same programming for their pump upgraded and non pump upgraded cars?

[kharsnett]

from the title of your thread it Sounds like you are blaming APR for your slipping clutch.

[Nico]

Those Hp are for sure Not to the wheels , if u read my post u'll find that i don't have any performance pump file..by the way i red all u'r posts and because i have most of your mods and more i hoped my car will run very fast, but i was verrry disapointed

The Hp at the wheels was 121.7 (radleistung) the 250 is motor (motorleistung) - MAHA reads very conservatively so don't be put off. I'm sorry you were disappointed with the overall performance - I know exactly how you feel my car only put out 200 wheel HP with a KO4. Everyone is in denial about the true HP figures of our cars. The engine is only 200hp stock and quattro looses alot of power about 30%.

The good news is that you have increased the power of your car by 50hp at the engine according to your dyno and that is alot!!!

Hopefully APR will fix your fuel pump program and you will gain some more mid-range power and the car will feel even faster but you won't see a difference in top end power.

Goodluck

[Sanjman]

you should talk to your guy in the USA and have them communicate directly to the dealer you went to... let them figure it out... once they have everything sorted out and everything seems correct then go.

[dandmx04]

you should talk to your guy in the USA and have them communicate directly to the dealer you went to... let them figure it out... once they have everything sorted out and everything seems correct then go.

I'm no longer intersted in APR products..it was a really big waste of money. I'm looking forward for AWE BT.
Before i bought my tuning parts i red alot on this forum and tryied to buy the best parts necesary.. and the reason that i choose APR was that i intended to buy more than just a 1st stage chiptuning ..and at that time almost all af u guys on this forum preferd APR.

[tribe]

I still don't understand how you can expect to put 100% engine's power to the wheels with a slipping clutch... I'm I missing something? That shop dynoed your car knowing you got a slipping clutch?