Please Help with Running Rich on a GT2860RS "Disco Potato"

[GetBoosted84]

Hi everyone,

I am having some trouble with my new turbo setup (bassed's old setup) and I'm hoping you guys can help. I cannot get the GT28RS to hit full boost before 4.6k RPM.

Because of this, I took a log of block 001 and found that my A/F is WAAAYYY rich (like ~10.x : 1). Also, at start up my car spews smoke from the un-burnt fuel out of the exhaust.

Here is basically my setup:
* GT2860RS "Disco Potato" Turbo
* AWM Engine
* Genesis 415cc Injectors
* PES Tuning
* Stock FPR (unmodified)

And here is my log:
Engine Speed (/min) Lambda Reg BCat (%)
2760 -23.4
2800 0
2840 -4.6
2920 -25
3000 -25
3080 -25
3160 -25
3280 -25
3360 -25
3520 -25
3640 -25
3760 -25
3880 -25
4000 -25
4160 -25
4280 -24.2
4440 -20.3
4640 -15.6
4800 1.5
4960 1.5
5160 1.5
5080 10.9

Please help.

[Poopie]

hhhmmmm do you have the connectors for the o2 sensor plugged in to the correct banks and to the harness? is this with the maf or no maf?

[GetBoosted84]

It's without the MAF.

And I just checked and the o2 sensors are in the correct plugs (brown to brown / black to black). Also, the o2 sensor with the brown connector is plugged into the bottom of my test pipe while the o2 sensor with the black connector is plugged into the top of the test pipe.

Can someone verify that the o2 sensor with the black connector should be in the first position? Think thats why?

btw, I have my cell on if its easier for you to call.

[Poopie]

haha i'm in class

[GetBoosted84]

lol, I figured that's why you didn't answer your phone.

[Poopie]

what are your long term fuel trims look like? i think thats block 31. check that....a rich part throttle could indicate a boost leak. and the way we did the IC piping that could be a big part.

[GetBoosted84]

brb, gonna go do a run.

[ILoveT]

brb, gonna go do a run.

Beer run I hope... For when I come to have you install that K04, for free.

[GetBoosted84]

Beer run I hope... For when I come to have you install that K04, for free.

lol, I wish. Someone just put a deposit on the k04 btw.

Poopie, here is block 031 (took it in 3rd gear from about 2.5k RPM to redline at WOT):
[031] Value 1 [031] Value 2 Value 1 (Calculated A/F) Value 2 (Calculated A/F)
0.99 1 14.553 14.7
0.98 1 14.406 14.7
0.9 0.91 13.23 13.377
0.86 0.9 12.642 13.23
0.89 0.9 13.083 13.23
0.91 0.9 13.377 13.23
0.91 0.9 13.377 13.23
0.9 0.9 13.23 13.23
0.93 0.9 13.671 13.23
0.93 0.9 13.671 13.23
0.92 0.9 13.524 13.23
0.91 0.9 13.377 13.23
0.9 0.9 13.23 13.23
0.92 0.9 13.524 13.23
0.9 0.88 13.23 12.936
0.84 0.79 12.348 11.613
0.83 0.76 12.201 11.172
0.82 0.75 12.054 11.025
0.8 0.72 11.76 10.584
0.79 0.7 11.613 10.29
0.79 0.69 11.613 10.143
0.79 0.69 11.613 10.143
0.79 0.69 11.613 10.143
0.75 0.84 11.025 12.348
1.15 0.97 16.905 14.259
0.86 0.94 12.642 13.818
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1.04 29.253 15.288
1.99 1 29.253 14.7
1.99 0.96 29.253 14.112
1.5 0.96 22.05 14.112
1.01 0.96 14.847 14.112
0.93 0.96 13.671 14.112
0.9 0.96 13.23 14.112
0.87 0.96 12.789 14.112
0.87 0.96 12.789 14.112
0.89 1 13.083 14.7
0.9 1 13.23 14.7
0.95 1 13.965 14.7
0.99 1 14.553 14.7
1 1 14.7 14.7
1.01 1 14.847 14.7
1.01 1 14.847 14.7
1 1 14.7 14.7
1 1 14.7 14.7
1 1 14.7 14.7

Is value 1 the lamba or value 2? I cannot remember and it just lists it as stated above. I added the second two columns to help out... its value 1/2 multiplied by 14.7.

[GetBoosted84]

btw I also did a log of block 031 while just cruising in 3rd gear at 2.5k RPM and I got the following for what its worth:
Lamba:
Max A/F = 15.729
Min A/F = 12.789

[Poopie]

is block 32 the long term fuel trims? i forget..its been so long since i logged.

[GetBoosted84]

Yep it is. I'll go do a run and get those numbers in 3rd gear @ WOT. brb

[Poopie]

you don't need to do a run. just go into the measuring block and look at the value.

[GetBoosted84]

you don't need to do a run. just go into the measuring block and look at the value.

Yeah I realized that once I got in and fired up the car...

Here is what I got:
O2 Learnt Idle (%) = -6.9
O2 L Part Load (%) = -25.0

[Nebone]

Similar Issue?

[GetBoosted84]

Similar Issue?

Sounds very familiar. I actually shot him a PM to see how the hell he fixed it (if it did get fixed).

[GetBoosted84]

Here is a log I took this morning of block 001, 115, & 003 in 3rd gear at WOT.

I dialed back the boost and I am reading 10-12 psi under full load now.

http://plainbored.com/files/logs/LOG-01-003-115-001.CSV

[Nebone]

Here is your boost in PSI. Requested looks good but its just not putting out. You need a coolant temp sensor or thermostat. Engine is too cold; should be 90+

RPM Spec. Actual
4080 14.553 3.381
4560 14.553 10.878
5120 13.818 10.731
5600 15.141 10.29
6040 13.524 10.143
6480 13.377 9.849

I don't know about the 02 sensor data so someone else explain that but I bet it's running rich. Timing is high too. Log timing retard.

[dougyfresh]

please post screen captures or links to google spreadsheets when posting logs. it is very difficult to read what you've got there in post #9 since this forum does not differentiate between spaces in columnar text. TIA!

[GetBoosted84]

Nebone, I think that might be because I let the car warm up for about 15 minutes in the morning before hitting the WOT. I think I might need to give it some more time before getting into it. I think I have a boost leak in my piping but it can't be too big since my vacuum is right at 19-20 at idle.

dougy, here is a link to a CSV file for just block 031:
http://plainbored.com/files/logs/LOG-02-031-XXX-XXX.csv

[Poopie]

leaks in the IC piping does not really affect vac since the vac is developed after the throttle body. i think you just need to bump up the boost. the ecu is thinking that the n75 is still controlling boost. you are forcing the turbo to develop less boost then what the ecu wants. i think bump up the boost to 20 psi and see what happens.

[GetBoosted84]

leaks in the IC piping does not really affect vac since the vac is developed after the throttle body. i think you just need to bump up the boost. the ecu is thinking that the n75 is still controlling boost. you are forcing the turbo to develop less boost then what the ecu wants. i think bump up the boost to 20 psi and see what happens.

I did that already actually. It yielded the same results. I only knocked it back down to 13 psi because I don't want to do a 20-21 psi run with a screwed up setup.

I gotta figure out a way to check the piping since my boost leak tester was for my old 2 3/4 inch opening so it won't fit around the 3" opening now. I'll have to build a new one.

[Poopie]

was it laggy or just still running rich? maybe it is your boost controller set up.

[GetBoosted84]

was it laggy or just still running rich? maybe it is your boost controller set up.

Could be. I could try disconnecting that and using the wastegate only as my boost controller.

The log I took of block 031 for you (http://plainbored.com/files/logs/LOG-02-031-XXX-XXX.csv) was done at 20 psi. So yeah, it's still rich there too.

[Poopie]

hhmm yeah boost leak check it,

[GetBoosted84]

hhmm yeah boost leak check it,

Yeah, I'll hit up Home Depot tonight to get something to shove in the end of the intake side of the turbo.

Also, can you check your O2 sensors for me. I want to confirm the primary (first) o2 sensor that is closest to the turbo is/should be the one with the longer wiring and the black harness?

I have a strong feeling that these are swapped on my car and I have the secondary o2 sensor in the primary location and the primary is in the defouler so its getting a crappy reading.

[Don Supreme]

Screenshots please man --

P.S. @ 10.1 you are probably washing the bores...........

[Don Supreme]

Yeah, I'll hit up Home Depot tonight to get something to shove in the end of the intake side of the turbo.

Also, can you check your O2 sensors for me. I want to confirm the primary (first) o2 sensor that is closest to the turbo is/should be the one with the longer wiring and the black harness?

I have a strong feeling that these are swapped on my car and I have the secondary o2 sensor in the primary location and the primary is in the defouler so its getting a crappy reading.

As long as its plugged into the right harness and not behind a CAT, I don't see it causing a big difference putting it further back.

[mike-2ptzero]

Any logs of block 003 and 020? Could be that your ecu is not requesting enough timing to burn all that extra fuel and that is because you are running mafless, the ecu uses the maf readings to control how much fuel and timing is being used compared to the load and air flow readings.

Yeah, I'll hit up Home Depot tonight to get something to shove in the end of the intake side of the turbo.

Also, can you check your O2 sensors for me. I want to confirm the primary (first) o2 sensor that is closest to the turbo is/should be the one with the longer wiring and the black harness?

I have a strong feeling that these are swapped on my car and I have the secondary o2 sensor in the primary location and the primary is in the defouler so its getting a crappy reading.

Black plug is precat wide band 02 sensor and the red plug is the post cat 02 sensor.

[GetBoosted84]

Screenshots please man --

P.S. @ 10.1 you are probably washing the bores...........

How can I avoid washing down the cylinder walls while I am doing these test runs while logging? Can I just put a little oil in each cylinder to make sure I’m not getting metal on metal?

Screenshots :-P

As long as its plugged into the right harness and not behind a CAT, I don't see it causing a big difference putting it further back.

I was thinking that because I had it inside a defouler that could be the issue. Guess not though since it looks like my o2 sensor is in the right position from what Mike said below.

Any logs of block 003 and 020? Could be that your ecu is not requesting enough timing to burn all that extra fuel and that is because you are running mafless, the ecu uses the maf readings to control how much fuel and timing is being used compared to the load and air flow readings.

Black plug is precat wide band 02 sensor and the red plug is the post cat 02 sensor.

I will try plugging my TT225 MAF in because the stock MAF was making the car stall and won’t run right so I’m assuming it’s gone.

Thanks for the sanity check on the o2 sensor also. I started to second guess my placement of them after these issues came about.

Also, I will get a log of block 003 & 020 for you and post up.

[Nebone]

I thought you had a MAFless tune? You already logged block 3 and MAF readings were 0.

http://plainbored.com/files/logs/LOG-01-003-115-001.CSV

[GetBoosted84]

I was told the PES tuning runs with or without the MAF so I was going MAFless since it ran like crap with the MAF plugged in.

I am going to try using the MAF again (the TT225 one) though to see if that improves the situation.

[Don Supreme]

Pes tune optimized for mafless operation.... I highly doubt it.

[bassed]

There's enough timing as we can see, come grab a fresh 02 sensor to check the sensor, try the TT225 Maf, but first double check the n75 and how you have it circling on itself as well as the boost machine<----Take it out of the equation and run WG only.

[bassed]

I was told the PES tuning runs with or without the MAF so I was going MAFless since it ran like crap with the MAF plugged in.

I am going to try using the MAF again (the TT225 one) though to see if that improves the situation.

No it's the MAP sensor Chris not the tune.

Pes tune optimized for mafless operation.... I highly doubt it.

It's not.

[GetBoosted84]

There's enough timing as we can see, come grab a fresh 02 sensor to check the sensor, try the TT225 Maf, but first double check the n75 and how you have it circling on itself as well as the boost machine<----Take it out of the equation and run WG only.

Ian, would you mind if I tried out the spare O2 sensor you have? If that is the issue, I'll go out and pick one up asap. Also, I will try out the TT225 MAF once I get back home and I'll do a sanity check on the N75 and delete the boost machine from the equation.

Also, just for kicks I plugged in my MAF sensor just now just to see how the car would react and it had an erratic idle for several minutes then leveled out. So I tried to drive the car... lol, not so much, it stalled immediately.

I know the logs might be worthless since I'm not doing a pull but I figured I would just for the sake of being complete. Here are the logs of Blocks 001, 003, and 020 (click on the images for the csv files):

With MAF


With NO MAF

[GetBoosted84]

No it's the MAP sensor Chris not the tune.

lol, i hope its not the tune. The maf and o2 sensor, etc. are cheap compared to having to have the car re-tuned. Especially since you were running this same setup on your car for months I'm not convinced its the tune.

[mike-2ptzero]

Shouldn't your timing readings be much higher then that during idle?

[bassed]

lol, i hope its not the tune. The maf and o2 sensor, etc. are cheap compared to having to have the car re-tuned. Especially since you were running this same setup on your car for months I'm not convinced its the tune.

You're ability to run with out a MAF is due to the MAP Chris, the tune is not MAF delete.

[mike-2ptzero]

You're ability to run with out a MAF is due to the MAP Chris, the tune is not MAF delete.

Correct. His tune is way too off to allow him to run mafless, this is why his fuel trim readings are at the max for part throttle. His tune needs the maf to tell the ecu how much air is being forced into the engine.