AWD to RWD Conversion

[anmagro]

Hey guys, i am new to Audizine and i just want to tell you guys what a great site this is. I have learned alot about my A4 from reading the many good threads about Audi / B5 subjects that really matter, and that really help.

With that, i would like to ask about a subject that i believe was somewhat coverd here.

I am looking into what it would take to convert my Quattro into a RWD platform. I know that it has been done before but i am looking for further information such as.

1. What is the step by step process of doing something like this the correct way. A DIY or some pictures with caption would be great.

2. Are there any direct benifits from this conversion besides being able to do somewhat usless things like burn outs, tail spins and so on; such as an increase in HP considering the car is not turning 4 wheels any more....(i.e gettin the 21-22% wheel power reduction from Quattro down somewhere around the 9-10% reduction in FWD)

3. The main reason that i am looking into this is because when i intend on going PES G2 Supercharger i am just wondering if i would be able to get more HP out of the set up. Ushally G2'd Quattro get 220ish whp while G2'd FWD cars get around 250ish whp no problem.

4. Another reason for this conversion would be that few have done it, and that it is very different at a car show. I love Quattro but its ok to think about different options that i may have.

I have read some of the threads with the member from Audizine named GetAwayFromMe. If anyone with this conversion can give me some from info, tips, suggestions, that would be amazing.

thanks alot guys, you can also find me on audiforums.com @ anmagro

[team_soy]

STFA

[anmagro]

not sure what STFA means.

after searching alot, i guess i can sum this thread up into one question that has not funny been talked about yet. so as to not be flamed for this repeated subject.

when you guys have converted to RWD, did u see any more power anywhere in the power curve? weather it be mid-range, from a roll...did u feel the car pick up better because the engine was turning 2 wheels instead of 4? Has any one dyno'ed cars before and after?

[djwimbo]

Hey guys, i am new to Audizine and i just want to tell you guys what a great site this is. I have learned alot about my A4 from reading the many good threads about Audi / B5 subjects that really matter, and that really help.

With that, i would like to ask about a subject that i believe was somewhat coverd here.

I am looking into what it would take to convert my Quattro into a RWD platform. I know that it has been done before but i am looking for further information such as.

1. What is the step by step process of doing something like this the correct way. A DIY or some pictures with caption would be great.

2. Are there any direct benifits from this conversion besides being able to do somewhat usless things like burn outs, tail spins and so on; such as an increase in HP considering the car is not turning 4 wheels any more....(i.e gettin the 21-22% wheel power reduction from Quattro down somewhere around the 9-10% reduction in FWD)

3. The main reason that i am looking into this is because when i intend on going PES G2 Supercharger i am just wondering if i would be able to get more HP out of the set up. Ushally G2'd Quattro get 220ish whp while G2'd FWD cars get around 250ish whp no problem.

4. Another reason for this conversion would be that few have done it, and that it is very different at a car show. I love Quattro but its ok to think about different options that i may have.

I have read some of the threads with the member from Audizine named GetAwayFromMe. If anyone with this conversion can give me some from info, tips, suggestions, that would be amazing.

thanks alot guys, you can also find me on audiforums.com @ anmagro

If you searched you should've come across this thread already. Everything is explained in that thread.
Same user's video's after the conversion Link

Actual WHP benefits may be less important when you realize how the car handles. I don't see the benefit of only a possible gain of whp by sacrificing one of the best parts of our cars.

Weight being the same, I'd take a 220AWHP over a 250whp car.

FWIW, most people that convert to RWD, eventually want to convert back.

[biketsai]

I wouldnt do it just to see higher numbers on the dyno. AWD or not, your still making the same power to the crank. IMO, not worth it.

[anmagro]

biketsai i understand completly what you are saying. my only question is, is there and reason why u wouldent see some of those horses come back if the conversion is done? i am asking from the stand point of....will the tranny send 100% of the engine power to those rear wheels with this modification? or will it somehow stay the same? becuase of tranny/engine design even with the modification?

[djwimbo]

If you weld up the center diff as explained in the previous threads on this subject it will send 100% of the power to the rear wheels IF you remove the front axle shafts.

due to the fact that you will still have some additional rotating parts of the front diff and stuff, I don't see how it will be as efficient as a normal RWD trans.

[andyrew]

biketsai i understand completly what you are saying. my only question is, is there and reason why u wouldent see some of those horses come back if the conversion is done? i am asking from the stand point of....will the tranny send 100% of the engine power to those rear wheels with this modification? or will it somehow stay the same? becuase of tranny/engine design even with the modification?

Well instead of about a 30% drivetrain loss you'll probably see a 23-27% drivetrain loss. (pure estimates, but in that range)

On 180hp that equates to 5-12HP.

I've got a better idea. Hook up a 50 shot.

[audispeed]

wrong ... loss will be the same. think about it, the only thing that isnt turning anymore is the front axels. the flanges the front axels attach to on the tranny still turn. gains will be simply from losing the weight of the front axels. friction losses (major part) will remain the same.

[anmagro]

lol i agree a 50 Shot would be great.

Im gettin the idea about this mod. maby when i get supercharged and i know i am keeping this car maby i will go ahead with it. But whatever i do, im going to get a spare diff and im going to dyno it and see if i can get that 5-12hp. lol, and probally do some nasty burn outs in the process.

[anmagro]

why are you saying that friction loss will remain the same when the removed axle's wont be catching drag from the front wheels because they are not connected anymore? the strain on the diff < tranny < engine will be less because the road wont be connected to it to stop its motion.

you know what im ready to do right now while im home...take my gas powerd RC car to a shop and get it on one if those RC dyno's then take out the front drive shafts and dyno the rear wheels only. and see what happens. lol

[turboquattro068]

hahahaha, I think my a4 would be sick rear wheel drive, but I still wouldn't give it up, quattro is sexy

[le91688]

Dont do it. Its stupid. Check out the guy with the green A4, he made a video, the thing handles like shit. You're crazy if you would get rid of AWD.

[audispeed]

why are you saying that friction loss will remain the same when the removed axle's wont be catching drag from the front wheels because they are not connected anymore? the strain on the diff < tranny < engine will be less because the road wont be connected to it to stop its motion.

yes, but the front wheels are connected to the car. so unless you are doing a wheelie in your rwd monster they will be providing drag. bigger issue is the internal drag in tranny. and the front flanges will still be turning so the internal drag will be there. point of the matter is there is no conceivable benefit to this at all.

[djwimbo]

The drivetrain loss is dependent on more than just friction inside the trans. YES, you would still be powering the front flanges, this is why they axles should be removed.

However, you're not actually powering the front wheels, this means there is Very minimal power transferred to the front half of the trans. Who cares if the front wheels cause drag, they cause drag if you're FWD, AWD, or RWD.

Do you have any idea how much power that would actually take to power ONLY the front flanges? Think about it, you're powering two flanges (1.5lbs/ea), pinion, ring gear and diff. Take out the 40lb/ea wheel assemblies, 12lb rotors, wheel bearings, axles shafts and wheel hubs. Then tell me the drivetrain loss is the same on a RWD converted car as an AWD car.

Like I said before, it will not be as efficient as a true RWD trans, such as a T56, but more efficient at the wheels than the AWD. I still don't think it's a good idea.

[anmagro]

OMG FINALLY, someone agree's with me just a little bit! lol even if u dont think its a good idea man, thanks for helpin me out here.....

[audispeed]

[QUOTE=djwimbo;2873286] Take out the 40lb/ea wheel assemblies, 12lb rotors, wheel bearings, axles shafts and wheel hubs. Then tell me the drivetrain loss is the same on a RWD converted car as an AWD car.

QUOTE]


For a car on the road ... yes it is. for a dyno queen you might see a little more power. i could care less about an arbitrary number that you wont even match the next day on the dyno. on the road where it matters this will make no difference.

[twofaze]

ricer....

[anmagro]

ricer what?

[audi til I die]

Hahaha... you don't give up huh? How's winter in NY? Well do what you want I guess, but just because the dyno run may show certain hp gains doesn't mean that'll be put down on the pavement. I'm gonna laugh my ass off when a similarly modded AWD 2.8 beats you.

PS. When he says "ricer" I'm guessing he means its a stupid idea. Like all ricer mods. FYI

[Dietbudda]

Hold on, why dont you take advice from someone who's done it?

It's OK. I noticed the car works less to get up to speed. HOWEVER, theyway our control arms are, extra vibration comes through the wheel when the front axles are removed.

For regular driving, it's good because the car feels smoother, it takes up RPM's slightly quicker. There is a little more backlash from the trans when you shift. I threw on a DTS and it was all gone.

What's with the 'ricer' comment? someone turns a FWD in RWD and it's cool, the Skylines are popular for being able to switch while driving.
I'm sorry, the ricer comments would be better suited for people throwing ugly tailights on their car and calling it a mod.

BTW, if you feel the need to call me a ricer because i've done the RWD mod, that's cool, i made the car RWD cause 4WD bores the snot out of me.

[GetAwayFromMe]

^^Very true! I did this mod because AWD bores me and when time comes for winter i will go back to AWD. Yes the cars handling got worse but if you already got some mods for that like DTS, sway bar, etc than your car should do fine. I like to whip the car around the corner every once in a while and it's kinda hard with AWD. Maybe if i had 400 horse than i wouldnt have a problem doing it with AWD but 180hp makes it hard unless i drop the clutch. I know that you can whip the car around the corner with quattro blah blah but with RWD it makes it more fun. It's not a ricer mod and it's not a stupid mod either it's simply something a driver enjoys and wants.

[andyrew]

I dont understand how people could call it a ricer mod... I would call it a drifter mod personally..

If I had the ability to swap between AWD and RWD I would, simply because I do a lot of different styles of racing and drifting is one that I enjoy doing as well (in a setup 944 turbo) and the A4 takes a lot more work to get into perfect continuous drifts.


That being said the most I would do is the diff mod for more rear distribution and that mod is on my short list.

[Siena]

The best all-round solution, would be to fit an 016 tranny from the type 85 (B2) 4000q, or from the type 44 (C3) 200/5000q.

The central differential is lockable, so with the front axle shafts removed, it'll be RWD.

If you could also figure out a freewheeling assembly for the front axles, then you could leave them in, and be able to switch between AWD and 2WD at will.

That's the way I'd do it, seems a lot less drastic than welding up your torsen.

[GetAwayFromMe]

The best all-round solution, would be to fit an 016 tranny from the type 85 (B2) 4000q, or from the type 44 (C3) 200/5000q.

The central differential is lockable, so with the front axle shafts removed, it'll be RWD.

If you could also figure out a freewheeling assembly for the front axles, then you could leave them in, and be able to switch between AWD and 2WD at will.

That's the way I'd do it, seems a lot less drastic than welding up your torsen.

That would be something almost impossible to do.

[audi til I die]

I'd just do the Stasis dif and call it a day. Besides weather is so unpredictable where I'm from that its always likely to rain or snow so I'd never go RWD, even if it temporarily. I drive my friends 530i in the rain and its always pulling and it feels like its about to hydro. The Audi is so smooth on precipitation. The only way I'd EVER go RWD is if I bought a B5 for dirt cheap and had it as a beater. Then I'd go whipping around corners and stuff. But my DD must be Quattro. 2wd takes the best thing out of Audi's.

[Siena]

That would be something almost impossible to do.

What part would be something impossible to do?

The freewheeling aspect, or the installation of the 016 tranny?

[s23218]

Hi ;
I'll be doing a mid engined car next year and will be using either a 2.7 TT V6 or 4.2 V8 and and am looking for the same REAL information, standard or auto, I can live with either.
There are a lot of opinions out there and that is not what I'm looking for. Does anyone or has anyone really done this succesfully? What happens with the engine controlls when going from AWD/4WD to 2WD? I plan on buy a run down A6/A8 and remove all the components I'll need so will have all the harnesses and computers.
Any REAL INFORMATION would really be appreciated or does anyone know of an Audi trans shop who has done these sucessfully.

Thanks
Don Millspaugh
[email protected]
334 590-2119

[Scotty@Advanced]

Hi ;
I'll be doing a mid engined car next year and will be using either a 2.7 TT V6 or 4.2 V8 and and am looking for the same REAL information, standard or auto, I can live with either.
There are a lot of opinions out there and that is not what I'm looking for. Does anyone or has anyone really done this succesfully? What happens with the engine controlls when going from AWD/4WD to 2WD? I plan on buy a run down A6/A8 and remove all the components I'll need so will have all the harnesses and computers.
Any REAL INFORMATION would really be appreciated or does anyone know of an Audi trans shop who has done these sucessfully.

Thanks
Don Millspaugh
[email protected]
334 590-2119

As discussed previosuly

If you want an automatic, you'll have to use a rather weak 5HP19, you might be able to get the V6 ecm to talk to the stock 5HP19 (Fwd) tcm, but the V8 you won't and you will have to use a standalone controller. If you want a standard you need to look into the European 01E FWD gearbox, it's stout enough to handle the power of the above engines. You can try to go with the 012/01A FWD gearbox but it's has some pretty thin gears and doesn't like abuse.

Also the automatics are extremely wide which means a pretty drastic angles on your CV joints if you have a traditional GT40 kit.

[M-Hood]

Hi ;
I'll be doing a mid engined car next year and will be using either a 2.7 TT V6 or 4.2 V8 and and am looking for the same REAL information, standard or auto, I can live with either.
There are a lot of opinions out there and that is not what I'm looking for. Does anyone or has anyone really done this succesfully? What happens with the engine controlls when going from AWD/4WD to 2WD? I plan on buy a run down A6/A8 and remove all the components I'll need so will have all the harnesses and computers.
Any REAL INFORMATION would really be appreciated or does anyone know of an Audi trans shop who has done these sucessfully.

Thanks
Don Millspaugh
[email protected]
334 590-2119

You might want to talk with the guys at 034, they have a mid engine GTI that is running a single turbo 2.7 liter.

[Scotty@Advanced]

You might want to talk with the guys at 034, they have a mid engine GTI that is running a single turbo 2.7 liter.

They are using one of my gearboxes, a short ratio 01E.