Widgget's GTRS Video and Logs - PART 2

[widgget]

Original Video Post: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226301

Part 1 of Video and Logs: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228105

I still can't get my car to perform the way it should be (at least i don't think it should). I want to try a few things like removing the SAI, and bypassing the N249, but i don't want to muck with to much until i get the issues at hand straightened out.

First and foremost the car just doesn't feel like it's pulling as hard as it should, boost is still slightly lower then requested. When i did the pressure test i heard gurgling from the turbo back into the engine (oil i assumed since i coudl hear it very clearly when i opened the oil cap on the engine). I was told this is normal but i experienced this starting at around 10psi and was unable to pressurize the system any more then 18psi at the highest point using my compressor at which point the system would completely depressurize within 5-10 seconds. I did not hear any hissing or other indications of a leak. just don't understand how this can be normal. I am going to do it again this weekend and take a video so that you can all see (i have a gauge on my tester) and hear the gurgle. I am realllly worried this new turbo is on it's way out, thats # 4 kinda thought a Garrett would be more reliable then the K0x. I blew all the oil lines out with my compressor when i installed it, primed it with oil, ALWAYS idle for 1-2 minutes after starting the car and idle for 2-5 minutes after i drive no ifs ands or buts about it. changed the oil 500 miles after installing the GTRS and i don't even have a full 4k on it yet. but like i said, i'll post a video (Sunday most likely) and i'll get some new logs since i haven't posted any since redoing all the IC piping.

The second issue is that on cold start the idle bounces about 5 times and it sounds very raspy before it smooths out. what is causing this? i KNOW i've seen it discussed and thought it had to do with the SAI but i couldn't find anything on it with a search.

[widgget]

Reserved For Video And Logs
*Coming Sunday!

[HTA A4]

^^ Same for me! Except these will be my first logs and videos. Change the name of the thread to widgget's and GTRS A4's logs and videos lol!

[widgget]

Have you run a pressure test? I would be very intrested to know if you get the same gurgle i had.

RLB6 said these are the blocks to log in the first thread (added a link in post # 1): 003, 020, 031, 115

[HTA A4]

When you log, are you supposed to go WOT or slowly accelerate?

[widgget]

I have been WOT for all of my logs since that is what i want to test, full out acceleration. it won't be easy to constantly have the exact same part throttle position over several runs thus making them harder to compare i believe.

[HTA A4]

Ok thanks!

[RLB6]

You're definitely falling short of what this kit should be able to put out. You're actual boost is not meeting what's being requested obviously. Are you sure you have no boost leaks OR your DV is functioning properly?

[mike-2ptzero]

When you did your pressure test did you block off the crank case breather? Did you also try block off the throttle body so that your just pressure testing just the intake system?

You can also try making sure that all the intake valves are closed, this way the air can not get into the cylinders and then you might be able to keep pressure up since it just sounds like your losing pressure thru the rings. If you are losing that much pressure thru the rings during a pressure test I would suggest doing a compression test.


The raspy sound during cold starts is the SAI, but if it is raspy you might have a leak at the valve that is bolted to the back of the head.

[RLB6]

Here's one of my old logs. This is what your logs should be similar too.

[widgget]

I didn't block anything off, the DIY didn't mention that. So i should get an end cap, remove the end of the IC piping from the manifold and cap it. where is the crank case breather and how should that be blocked? I'm guessing to get the valves closed would just be a matter of getting the engine cranked in the right position, how would i know when they are closed? i'll have to get a compression test done, maybe i can find a shop on Saturday before i take it all apart again for the pressure test, i'm to broke this month to pick one up due to my bothers weading and wifes birthday all coming up really fast.

looking at that log, your not reaching full boost until 5100rpm, isn't that a little late also? or is that due to the 71r? what gear was that? that looks a little closer to what i was getting last week while doing a few pulls with the laptop in the car but something just isn't right. i'll get all the details up this weekend so we can lay it all out and figure out exactly what her problem is.

[RLB6]

looking at that log, your not reaching full boost until 5100rpm, isn't that a little late also? or is that due to the 71r? what gear was that? that looks a little closer to what i was getting last week while doing a few pulls with the laptop in the car but something just isn't right. i'll get all the details up this weekend so we can lay it all out and figure out exactly what her problem is.

This was a 4th gear pull on the 71r elim. using a MBC which explains why the boost comes on so late. With my current setup, I see these boost levels about 1K RPM's earlier.

[widgget]

This was a 4th gear pull on the 71r elim. using a MBC which explains why the boost comes on so late. With my current setup, I see these boost levels about 1K RPM's earlier.

awesome, thanks.

[michpan]

Here's one of my old logs. This is what your logs should be similar too.

Is this log with a stock MAF?


Michael

[Papachristou]

i blocked off the PCV on the TIP with a wine cork! luckily i have lots of those laying around.. but i still got the gurgling noise you were talking about however no oil burning off on startup

[RLB6]

Is this log with a stock MAF?


Michael

yes.

[widgget]

i don't have oil burning off, but i do get a light white haze on cold start, antifreeze maybe, oil and coolant have remained at thier current levels over the last 3k but anyway it's deff not oil burning smell.

is the "crank case breather" the PVC you blocked off with the cork? i'm guessing that the 1"ish hose that comes off the tip and runs along the top of the engine with oil lines?


So what keeps the system from "gurgling" and introducing air into the oil line when you are driving the car?

[widgget]

shit, i called four shops including a chain store (VIP) and they all said that they don't do compression tests...... wtf. guess i might have to pick up a tester for my very slow growing tool collection after all.

EDIT: just ordered this: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95187 (it's the one dougyfresh has and linked in the last thread)

[HTA A4]

Well, delay my half of the logs and videos until next week.. Eurocode didn't get my ECU shipped out yesterday so it won't be here until Monday... Just my luck huh?

[Exanimas]

Widgget, I hope you get all the problems worked out soon. I just realized you're up in NH so hopefully once you get everything sorted I can come up some day and take a ride with you to see what a tiptronic GTRS (or any GTRS for that matter) feels like. I'm hoping to do the same thing to mine eventually, but cash flow is a bit slower for me than most people. Again, best of luck figuring this thing out.

[widgget]

of course! hope to get it all figured out soon.

[widgget]

So last weekend i pressure tested it, i found a small leak on one of my couplers and tightened it (and all the others) down nice and tight. swapped the D-BOV over to pull BOV mode and tightened the spring almost to the max. and it is better now.... but i still can't get my boost over 1800mbar (1910mbar was MAX peek) when 23xxmbar is being requested.

Still waiting for my compression tester to get here.

there was a small amount of oil in the intake side of the turbo and bottom of the TIP, but the 1" pipe that runs along the engine and into the tip (this is the crankcase pressure return, right?) was bone dry, IC piping was also bone dry.... there also seemed to be a very slight bit of play on the shaft but this was like this when i got the turbo and assumed it was normal due to the ball bearings. is this all normal?

so so so so so so so frustrating :((

[F16HTON]

You have to remember that at any given time, there are valves open in the cylinder heads...the pressure test is great for finding leaks in the intercooler piping and associated vacuum lines, however the pressure WILL leak past the rings on the cylinders with open valves.

Everything you are saying is normal as far as the turbo goes...

Since you are able to see 18psi, these are some of the areas I would look at...

~Injector o-ring seals
~o-ring seal at the MAP sensor
~check valves at the intake manifold
~exhaust leak at turbo
~wastegate not fully closing or dirty

When you do the pressure check, do this:

Disconnect the intercooler from the throttle body, plug one end of the intercooler piping and pressurize the other, this will isolate the intercooler system and show if there are any deficiencies with it.

Do the same at the throttle body, with the intercooler disconnected pressurize the system and see if you can find any vacuum lines or or check valves that are noticeably leaking.

Do not use more than 30psi, you will most likely blow check valves..if the leak is in the intake manifold and vacuum system, you can start by clamping off vacuum lines where they connect to the manifold closest to it (with a Craftsman or similar plastic rubber hose clamp pliers).

Start with one line at a time and work away from the manifold...each of the lines are like a vein in the human body, think of yourself as a combat surgeon trying to stop arterial bleeding. If you clamp a line and the gauge goes up, remove the clamp and see if it comes down the re-clamp it further down the line until you find the leak or the bad check valve.

[dougyfresh]

Setting the engine to TDC cyl#1 should help. It'll assure all 20 valves are closed. Now, if your valve seats are worn/dirty/full of carbon then you will see leakage past the valve seats.

Follow Greg's suggestion.

[widgget]

awesome guys thanks so much!

going to try the testing like you just said to. but now that you point it out (i hod forgot about this) I think it could be the wastegate. like i mentioned in one of the other threads, i needed to replace the wastegate actuaitor when i got the turbo since it had a small dent in it, prob wasn't necessary but i did it anyway. i wonder if i didn't tighten the turnbuckle enough which is causing the wastegate to never completely close.......

[F16HTON]

easy check, disconnect it and peg it closed. If you get beyond 18psi it is the wastegate...be careful to not go over 24psi

[widgget]

gonna have to see if i can get my big hands in there without taking the turbo off.

ohhhhh, EFI o-ring seals can cause the loss of boost........ i didn't think about that, and i have some oil around atleast the base of one...... i'll have to check this!!!!!!

i was just thinking about this......

the in-side of the N75 comes from the output of the turbo (pressurized at whatever the system is pressurized as), one output to the top of the wastegate actuator, and the other output to the TIP..... now applying pressure to the wastegate actuator opens the wastegate once there is enough pressure to over come the spring..... I must be missing something because logically this would mean that my wastegate is ether open (above 14psi which is the spring pressure in the actuator) or just dumping boost back into the TIP (creating a boost leak)......... where is my understanding of the system flawed?

[dougyfresh]

The wastegate just takes the exhaust gases and bypasses the turbine wheel on the turbo.

In other words, when excess boost is being generated (actual is higher than requested) the wastegate opens and the exhaust gases go straight into the car's exhaust and out the tailpipe.

[widgget]

i understand that. but if the system runs as i explained above then that would mean that the n75 is ether routing pressure to the wastegate actuator and opening the wastegate causing a loss of pressure since the exhaust is bypassing the turbine and not creating boost, OR the pressure is just being dumpped into the TIP and lowering the pressure in the system no diffrent then a boost leak. I just don't understand how it would be possible to get boost using this configuration.

[widgget]

So any comments on the N75 that i posted above?

anyway... haven't had much time to play with the problem but i wanted to check the EFIs since they were easy and i has a few seconds to spare. This si what they looked like:







it's not covering the engine bay by any means but i'm assuming they aren't sposta be leaking like this... I cleaned them all up and put them back. this morning on the way to work i gave it a few hard pulls and they still looked clean when i got to the office, the car also seemed to pull harder then before, this may just be in my head, or it my be the 50deg weather which i have not yet driven the stage 3 setup in until this morning. didn't have the laptop on me to do any logs.

I am debaiting pulling out the evap system to simplify this whole boost issue i'm having. don't know if i want to though.

[widgget]

OK, good news!!!!! i think i found the issue. i installed a MBC today and plugged off the N75 and left it connected to the TIP. went right up to 2000mbar (17xx was the highest i have been able to reach previously) when 2000mbar was requested. went a little bit harder on it, requested 23xxmbar, got to 2100mbar and BBAAAAANNNGGGGGGGGGGG!! pulled over and found that the FMIC hose blew right off of the turbo outlet. jacked it up & popped it back on but noticed that the clamp wasn't holding tight, made it about half way home from work, popped it off again not pushing it that hard since i couldn't get the clamp very tight, same deal again, jacked it up, put it back on, got back to the house going VERY easy on it.

so in the end it looks like the N75 was the issue. now i have to decide if i want to get a new N75 or just run the MBC.

so a huge thanks to everyone that has helped out. as soon as i get the clamp issue fixed up i'll take some more logs/videos :D

[widgget]

got the new heavy duty clamp on there, i think everything is pretty secure now.
the MBC is tuned so that i'm hitting 2000mbar right now, but i did notice that unless i'm really pushing the petal down that the specified boost tends to stay pretty low while my actual is much higher (Spec at 1100 while my act is at 15xx). i can only assume this is creating a lean condition but i'm going to get some logs on the way home i hope.

when i do finally get to 2000mbar my specified is still 22xx and the car start misfiring (feels like the rev limiter but i've had it happen at 5500rpm).

blocks 003, 020, & 115 should be all you smart people will need, correct?

oh, and how does mbar translate into PSI?

[mike-2ptzero]

oh, and how does mbar translate into PSI?

Take your reading at idle, subtract that from your readings at WOT. That will give you the actual boost level you are running in mbar, now take mbar and turn it into bar by putting a decimal before the 3rd number from the right. Then just multiply that number by 14.5.


Example

800mbar at idle
2200 mbar during WOT

2200 - 800 = 1400mbar or 1.4 bar.

1.4 x 14.5 = 20.3 psi

[widgget]

idle is 970 and i'm hitting 2000 so i'm only reaching 15psi then :( guess i gotta turn it up!

[widgget]

i know you need logs, but at 4500rpm it just starts misfiring now, feels like i'm hitting the revlimiter..... the messed up part is that when i am only hitting 17mbar and the ecu is requesting 2200 i can go right to 7k-rpm without the slightest hiccup, now that i am hitting the specified boost requested by the ECU the car just bogs out at 4500rpm.

feels EXACTLY like when i had the GTRS installed with the APR K04 software (as far as the bog goes). boost is now building like crazy so the ECU is asking for 1100mbar, the actual is more like 1700mbar and then the specified catches up and goes to 2200 and the actual then get to 2200. i think it might be running lean.

[KPC1.8TQuat]

Maybe talk to the Revo guys that did your flash?

I hope this gets sorted, I really want to go for a ride in your car bro.

Good luck!

[widgget]

gonna check in with them but they are a 2.5 hour drive (Merrimack) and are more of a VW shop, mine was the first stage 3 A4 they had seen so i don't hold to much hope on them knowing right away what the issue is.

[widgget]

had a code saying "fuel too low". guessing that means i'm running rich. this is with the MBC turned to about 1900mbar, spiking to 1980mbar. my idle mbar is only 960, so i'm only reaching 15ish-psi.
The logs show the ECU requesting 23xx and i'm only holding at 19xx, wouldn't this make it run rich since there is less air then expected? should i turn the MBC up some more and see if it helps, i don't want to blow my engine........

again, i do not understand why it works fine when my N75 was leaking and i could not get past 1700mbar and now that i am much closer to what the ECU is requesting i am getting this studdering/bogdown/misfires.........

[A4 Moda]

Since you're running an MBC now, you need to tell your programming to throw more fuel at your engine. Beg, borrow, find somebody with an SPS they can loan you. Switch channel 3? I believe it's 3 to 9, which is max boost on the SPS3. *whew, one more time.

Two Knobs:
Left= Channel
Right = setting

Channel= 3
Setting = 9

your setting right now is probably
Channel =3
setting = 2 to 4

you need to change it to
Channel=3
setting =9

Timing is on Channel=3
Setting = ? TBD

Tell me if that doesn't make sense.

and while you're at it, do some logs, and fine tune your timing as well. NO CFs over 6. i'm conservative, I'll keep it at 3-5.

[widgget]

Thanks Moda. i do wonder though if that is all that is wrong since i am getting the misfires before i ever reach what the ECU is requesting, it's not like i'm going past what the ECU is expecting. would you still agree that this could be the issue?

Going to replace the sparkplugs this weekend since it's been 6 months of driving severely under boosted, i can only imagine they are pretty bad running rich for so long.

Reflex Tuning, the shop thta did my revo flash said i could come back anytime and they would adjust it to anything i wanted so i don't need to go hunt a SPS3 down. Guess i'll plan a day to head down there and do some changes, log/test, repeat, blah, blah, blah.