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Thread: GM's Savior!

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    GM's Savior!

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    Introducing the Chevrolet Volt











    more images here:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/08/b...volt-revealed/

    I think this car is going to save GM and be a huge breakthrough in terms of automotive progress.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings MYDWAGON's Avatar
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Being they're a huge failure at hybrids.They've sold off their best battery technology.They are losing billions a quarter.Their plan that E85 was going to save the world.When year after year they fail on car models and car "break through's".The fact that the EV1(by GM) which came out 12 years ago had a range that was 3 times further on a charge.I can see why you would think that.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    I've done countless projects for the big 3. It saddens me to say that they continue to use last decade's solutions to counter the next decade's problems. Their lack of foresight is astonishing. A couple weeks ago a radio report said that everyone at GM was surprised that 12 mpg truck sales slumped to the point that they had to retool a truck plant to manufacture small cars.

    At least they brought the Astra over here under the Saturn name. Much better than the Cobalt (Cavalier Jr.).
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    Re: GM's Savior!



    That is just plain ugly. If they can make a all electric car like a Tesla then they should be able to make something better looking that what they have now.
    Last edited by Dimcorner; 09-09-2008 at 10:39 AM.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    yea the ev1 was the winner. too bad there is too much of gm's money in big oil.
    failboat anyone?

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by pyro View Post
    yea the ev1 was the winner. too bad there is too much of gm's money in big oil.
    failboat anyone?
    I guess for its time the EV1 was good, but that doesn't look good to me either. I'm not talking technology wise, I'm just commenting on the aesthetics.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Hopefully GM will feature the Opel Insignia under the Saturn name.
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    Re: GM's Savior!



    doesn't look the same
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    Veteran Member Four Rings minira's Avatar
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    that looks like the honda civic
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    man a lot of pessimism here. I think this car is going to sell out. The EV1 was a p.o.s. The volt is far more refined both technologically and stylistically.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by MYDWAGON View Post
    Being they're a huge failure at hybrids.They've sold off their best battery technology.They are losing billions a quarter.Their plan that E85 was going to save the world.When year after year they fail on car models and car "break through's".The fact that the EV1(by GM) which came out 12 years ago had a range that was 3 times further on a charge.I can see why you would think that.
    the reason they've been losing billions is because of these past failures. GM is in its given situation because the management has sucked over the past two decades. I've seen a positive progression of GM's management and focus, and i see the Volt as proof of this. As long as there are no major mechanical issues and the release date is not being forced, the Volt is going to be a winner.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings MYDWAGON's Avatar
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by flath12 View Post
    the reason they've been losing billions is because of these past failures. GM is in its given situation because the management has sucked over the past two decades. I've seen a positive progression of GM's management and focus, and i see the Volt as proof of this. As long as there are no major mechanical issues and the release date is not being forced, the Volt is going to be a winner.
    In the past year they just had to recall their hybrids for leaking batteries.They just now hired a vender for the Volt batteries.How can the batteries be proven when they're not even mass produced.How can there be positive progression when you're losing billions.When your making a Camaro again.When you importing the El Camino.When losing $10k a car.When you've sold off your best money making divisions.etc
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by minira View Post
    that looks like the honda civic
    exactly

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    Re: GM's Savior!

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    I can tell: that car's whole front end is based on the 1st dude's face

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    ^haha...I think you're right.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    plug it in at night.....sounds like a great idea! Let me just pull it into the garage! Oh wait, i live in an apartment. I'm sure my building won't mind if i have extention cords hanging down the side of the building.

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    i love that it has a 40 mile range in "normal driving conditions." I have a 50 mile commute in bumper to bumper traffic. Yeah, thats gonna work.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    all i see is a bunch of people in suits that don't care what happens to GM as long as it dosn't go bankrupt while they are working for that company.

    gm will never have a savior because the execs in that company just don't car that much.

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    No foresight, wait till gas prices are so high then try and rush something into production. In the mean time others have been actively working on high-bred technology. They had a working electric car in the 90s, and instead of a continuing development they crushed all their cars and went whoring it up with big oil companies, deciding to make 6.0 engines in big ass vehicles. All I see in those pictures are idiots with no balls to make any relevant decisions. Knowing them they won't want to make it too good or everyone will want one.
    Last edited by Silver streak; 09-16-2008 at 12:04 PM.
    AWE, GIAC, Stasis,KO4s, bla bla bla this is getting a bit ridiculous. I hope it will end soon.

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver streak View Post
    No foresight, wait till gas prices are so high then try and rush something into production. In the mean time others have been actively working on high-bred technology. They had a working electric car in the 90s, and instead of a continuing development they crushed all their cars and went whoring it up with big oil companies, deciding to make 6.0 engines in big ass vehicles. All I see in those pictures are idiots with no balls to make any relevant decisions. Knowing them they won't want to make it too good or everyone will one.
    Ok, I'm not going to let this "whoring it up with Big Oil" crap fly anymore. If you want to say they sold cars based on oil prices, fine, but keep the fucking conspiracy crap and baseless B.S. out of these threads.

    On Topic: I wanna see the big three go down BAD. The reason I want to see this is because I firmly believe that something good could possibly come out of all of them crashing and burning.
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    Senior Member Three Rings kelticslob's Avatar
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    You gotta be pretty naive to think a coalition between the big 3 and oil companies is just a conspiracy.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings MYDWAGON's Avatar
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
    Ok, I'm not going to let this "whoring it up with Big Oil" crap fly anymore. .
    GM had great battery technology.They sold it to the Texaco and they sold t to Chevron.That's what killed the EV1
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
    Ok, I'm not going to let this "whoring it up with Big Oil" crap fly anymore. If you want to say they sold cars based on oil prices, fine, but keep the fucking conspiracy crap and baseless B.S. out of these threads.

    On Topic: I wanna see the big three go down BAD. The reason I want to see this is because I firmly believe that something good could possibly come out of all of them crashing and burning.
    When they were crushing the electric cars in the 90s... why were they storing the cars in the oil companies refinery parking lots, waiting to be crushed??? Oh wait! ... I know, they had some extra room they weren't using and out of the kindness of their heart they did this. You are an idiot, keep sticking your head in the sand and believe that oil companies have nothing to lose if the electric car succeeds. Keep you narrow minded naivety out of these thread.

    P.S. I just saw your from Texas.lol sell much oil?
    AWE, GIAC, Stasis,KO4s, bla bla bla this is getting a bit ridiculous. I hope it will end soon.

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver streak View Post
    When they were crushing the electric cars in the 90s... why were they storing the cars in the oil companies refinery parking lots, waiting to be crushed??? Oh wait! ... I know, they had some extra room they weren't using and out of the kindness of their heart they did this. You are an idiot, keep sticking your head in the sand and believe that oil companies have nothing to lose if the electric car succeeds. Keep you narrow minded naivety out of these thread.

    P.S. I just saw your from Texas.lol sell much oil?
    Yeah I got my head in the sand, moron. Who do you think's gonna be making money off the technology in the future? It's called making an investment. Go to school, son. Show me the evidence that there were GM's electric cars in the parking lot at "oil companies'" refineries...c'mon PROVE IT!

    I've read the stupid "Who killed the EV-1" story, and while it seems a bit fishy when taken out of context, go look at what the price of oil was in 1999-2000 when this shit occurred. Yeah that's right...around $13-20 a barrel. Awash in profits my ass. THAT is what forced merger mania in the oil industry. Go do some homework, son.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
    Yeah I got my head in the sand, moron. Who do you think's gonna be making money off the technology in the future? It's called making an investment. Go to school, son. Show me the evidence that there were GM's electric cars in the parking lot at "oil companies'" refineries...c'mon PROVE IT!

    I've read the stupid "Who killed the EV-1" story, and while it seems a bit fishy when taken out of context, go look at what the price of oil was in 1999-2000 when this shit occurred. Yeah that's right...around $13-20 a barrel. Awash in profits my ass. THAT is what forced merger mania in the oil industry. Go do some homework, son.
    Well if you want to call someone 44 son thats fine I guess your an old man know it all. I have seen it with my own eyes... cars in oil companies parking lots ready for crushing. You see it quite simple my simpleton, the future is a long time off and some people that are making the money now, think they can make more keeping things the way they are. The documentary you might "learn" something from before looking like a ass again is " Who Killed The Electric Car" Just pop your head out of the sand and check it out... I'll be fun learning.
    Last edited by Silver streak; 09-16-2008 at 01:57 PM.
    AWE, GIAC, Stasis,KO4s, bla bla bla this is getting a bit ridiculous. I hope it will end soon.

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoremile View Post
    I've done countless projects for the big 3. It saddens me to say that they continue to use last decade's solutions to counter the next decade's problems. Their lack of foresight is astonishing

    Agree... we will never stop playing catch up with our way of thinking...
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver streak View Post
    Well if you want to call someone 44 son thats fine I guess your an old man know it all. I have seen it with my own eyes... cars in oil companies parking lots ready for crushing. You see it quite simple my simpleton, the future is a long time off and some people that are making the money now, think they can make more keeping things the way they are. The documentary you might "learn" something from before looking like a ass again is " Who Killed The Electric Car" Just pop your head out of the sand and check it out... I'll be fun learning.
    So I suppose you've been around the oil industry your entire 44 yrs. on this planet and that qualifies you to call a conspiracy "truth"? Not buying it old man. Why don't you go rent some more Michael Moore movies and preach their truth to me too? I would look like an ass if I didn't ACTUALLY know better. You live in BC, Cananda, what the hell do you know about it? How many of Chevron's refineries are in your country? That's what I thought. Where did you see these cars in the "oil companies'" refineries' parking lots? I'll ask again since apparently your old-wise-ass can't read. I already told you I've been read up on both side of "Who Killed the Electric Car?". Ha, telling me to watch a movie when you can't even read.

    I love a good conspiracy theory, and the grassy knoll is overrun with evildoers in Who Killed the Electric Car? It's a documentary in limited release, and could be playing at A Theater Near You.

    Here's the thesis: Auto manufacturers in general, General Motors in particular, went the electric car route in the late 1990s, most notably GM with the EV1. One big reason: pending, and severe, laws in California that called for stronger pollution standards and ever increasing fuel economy. The movie, written and directed by Chris Paine, who was an EV1 driver, suggests that California politicians backed off the laws, thus making it unnecessary for manufacturers to invest further in electric car technology. So when GM insists that public acceptance of the EV1 was unsatisfactory, Paine's movie says that it was a self-fulfilling prophecy, as GM let the EV1 die on the vine.

    GM, of course, disagrees.

    Paine does a pretty good job of proving his thesis, but to those of us who were there, his argument has holes. A review of the film in Daily Variety, hardly an automotive news source, points up the central flaw: "The film recalls, though never entirely explains, the efforts by manufacturers of electric cars to both make them, and squelch them."

    That's it in a nutshell. But certainly with gasoline prices at record levels, the timing of Paine's film is perfect. And since the little movie has been picked up by Sony Pictures for distribution, it will be difficult to ignore.

    Most of the movie deals with the EV1, which was based on the Impact showcar. GM announced in January 1996 that the company would build and market the EV1 in several markets that fall, most notably Los Angeles. Though it would be a GM-branded car, it would be sold through Saturn, whose touchy-feely style of salesmanship should appeal to electric-car buyers. The original EV1 had conventional lead-acid batteries, though later models had nickel-metal hydride batteries that gave the EV1 a range of at least 160 miles on a charge.

    General Motors did not sell the EV1, but leased it. Multiple celebrities drove EV1s, and loved them. Actor Tom Hanks is shown in the film raving about his EV1 on David Letterman's talk show. Mel Gibson, interviewed for the film, was an enthusiastic EV1 driver. And trotted out are the usual celebrity suspects to sing the praises of electrics: Ralph Nader, Ed Begley, Jr., Alexandra Paul and even Phyllis Diller, who apparently was the only celeb willing to admit she was old enough to remember the original electric cars from eons ago.

    So what went wrong? According to GM, in four years, the company was only able to lease about 700 EV1s. Much of the impetus behind the electric car idea was because of a mandate passed by the California Air Resource Board (CARB) that said if a company was going to continue to do business in the state, a certain percentage of its vehicles must eventually be zero-emissions capable. A new leader of CARB seemed less aggressive than his predecessor, so GM, and other manufacturers, decided to fight the mandate rather than try to meet the goals. They did, and they won. A revised mandate said that companies would have to build electric vehicles only if there was customer demand, and, the film insists, GM went to great lengths to prove that there was not.

    In a 2001 legal challenge to the CARB mandate, GM said that the failure of its own EV1 "demonstrated the minimal market appeal of electric vehicles based on cost, range and infrastructure issues." This was two years before GM began pulling its leased EV1s off the road. And by the end of 2004, most all the EV1s were crushed and stacked at GM's remote, guarded proving grounds in Arizona. Director Paine rented a helicopter and found, and photographed, the flattened cars. It's the film's most poignant moment.

    GM is not the only manufacturer targeted by the film: Ford, Honda, Nissan and Toyota also come off as indifferent at best about their electric efforts. Big oil has a spot reserved on Paine's grassy knoll, as do some California politicians.

    Conspiracy or not, there's no denying that GM was well ahead of the electric car curve, and had the company continued the development, we can only imagine how far along it would be now.

    In a recent issue of Motor Trend, an interviewer asked GM chief Rick Wagoner about the central regret of his tenure. He said it was killing the EV1 program. Perhaps more than anything else, that gives Who Killed the Electric Car? credibility.
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    1. what does Michael Moore have to do with this???
    2. I live in B.C. Canada, I don't "stay" hear...idiot
    3. documentary and movie are different
    4. I'm glad you can read propaganda, I state again I've seen electric cars in oil refinery parking lots waiting to be crushed.
    5. How about we let the O.P. have his thread back, and talk about how G.M. will start all over making the electric car "again"
    AWE, GIAC, Stasis,KO4s, bla bla bla this is getting a bit ridiculous. I hope it will end soon.

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    Veteran Member Four Rings MYDWAGON's Avatar
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
    How many of Chevron's refineries are in your country? n]
    http://www.chevron.ca/operations/refining/default.asp
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    Re: GM's Savior!

    lol
    AWE, GIAC, Stasis,KO4s, bla bla bla this is getting a bit ridiculous. I hope it will end soon.

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    Re: GM's Savior!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver streak View Post
    1. what does Michael Moore have to do with this???
    2. I live in B.C. Canada, I don't "stay" hear...idiot
    3. documentary and movie are different
    4. I'm glad you can read propaganda, I state again I've seen electric cars in oil refinery parking lots waiting to be crushed.
    5. How about we let the O.P. have his thread back, and talk about how G.M. will start all over making the electric car "again"
    Again: You + Reading + Logic = FAIL (Especially #2, WTF)

    All I did was prove you are a victim of propaganda as much as I am. Good thing you got someone to look at Chevron CA's website for you. LOL!
    Papachristou: i just said "yeah well you are still driving a neon, and she still wants to ride in my car"

    2012 BMW 135i M Sport

  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings MacDaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 06 2008
    AZ Member #
    31677
    Location
    Canadia

    Re: GM's Savior!

    lol, that link to the Burnaby chevron refinery is funny.

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Three Rings Silver streak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 14 2007
    AZ Member #
    19535
    My Garage
    01 S4 stage 3 AWE full kit
    Location
    Vancouver B.C.

    Re: GM's Savior!

    ^^ I assuming your being sarcastic...

    Really ... I thought the fact someone said there was no refinery in Canada , especially a chevron in B.C. Canada , and then a link to that was a little ironic,and funny.

    the link it self is not really that funny.
    Last edited by Silver streak; 09-19-2008 at 08:25 AM.
    AWE, GIAC, Stasis,KO4s, bla bla bla this is getting a bit ridiculous. I hope it will end soon.

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