APR vs. every1 else

[Bballplayr9]

so a couple of months ago i bought a used 2002 A4 1.8t, with 50,000 miles on the engine cause it was replaced. i havent really done much too it besides a new filter and forge dv. BUT i plan on getting it chipped and was wondering which companies offer the best ones. As of right now i am going with the APR 1+ but im starting to read alot of bad shit about APR and a bunch of good things about other companies like AWE. so need some advice. Is APR really as BAD as some ppl say? Also was wondering if the spring in my dv wud need to be changed to a stronger one. Any help would be greatly apreciated, thank you.

[kwimberly]

Dude - you already created this same thread 40 minutes ago. You might not have gotten a reply yet because your question can be answered via SEARCHING first. Now that you started a new thread for the same thing, wow...

If you've read as much as you say, you'll see that the APR issues have been with things like snub mounts and other tangible items. I haven't seen anyone complain about their APR software. The APR Stage 1 tune is best for those who want to just pep up their ride and basically maintain stock handling and feel. I've read that GIAC is more aggressive.

Dig around - you'll see!

[J-jizzle]

Dude - you already created this same thread 40 minutes ago. You might not have gotten a reply yet because your question can be answered via SEARCHING first. Now that you started a new thread for the same thing, wow...

If you've read as much as you say, you'll see that the APR issues have been with things like snub mounts and other tangible items. I haven't seen anyone complain about their APR software. The APR Stage 1 tune is best for those who want to just pep up their ride and basically maintain stock handling and feel. I've read that GIAC is more aggressive.

Dig around - you'll see!

some B7 guys have had problems with APR software.

[BARRY]

i have APR 1+...don't really like it.

[Bballplayr9]

Dude - you already created this same thread 40 minutes ago. You might not have gotten a reply yet because your question can be answered via SEARCHING first. Now that you started a new thread for the same thing, wow...

If you've read as much as you say, you'll see that the APR issues have been with things like snub mounts and other tangible items. I haven't seen anyone complain about their APR software. The APR Stage 1 tune is best for those who want to just pep up their ride and basically maintain stock handling and feel. I've read that GIAC is more aggressive.

Dig around - you'll see!

yea i know but i was sittin at home bored so i put one up with a title that ppl might look at more...so yea but thatnks...does ne1 know what the power outputs are with GIAC chip? and what fuel injectors i cud buy to get the most improvement in performance? thanks again

[NCAUDI]

Got APR stage 1 last week. Worth every penny. Most of the reflashes are mostly the same though. I went with APR and I like it, but I know people with GIAC and like that also. the APR dealer was closer to me and it was a good shop. boost is around 18-19, use the yellow spring from forge. Good Luck

[tdn]

I thought Revo was highly recommended for the b6 guys? Supposed to be aggressive with support for big turbos if one were to decide to take that route, which could save you time and money down the road.

[NCAUDI]

Also if you just want stage 1 now, then want to go to stage 1+ later there is no charge (other than the injectors) at most shops.

[Pr0n]

Whichever of the three (APR, GIAC, or REVO) is closer to you.

[onceover]

I took the test trial of APR and REVO and have got to say that i was more impressed with the APR tune.

Im not going to get chipped at all because im going BT

[A4 KiDD 810]

APR 1+ and GIAC are both nice. Get stage 1+ though or GIAC X chip, the regular stage 1 isnt enough in my opinion. To the 2nd poster, take it easy, he's new to posting on forums he'll get it.

[FourRings80]

OP- APR , GIAC and REVO are all pretty much the same, people choose the closest and a local shop with a good reputation to get flashed. So if problems pop up they will take care of you! Now the real question Is will stage 1+ be enough? If not you might want to go with REVO and save some money later on.

Personally I never had problems with my APR 1+ flash, like kwimberly said the snubs/exhaust/DV are to be cautious about buying. Not the software. But after 4 months, I must say I want more out of the car so going BT.

Yes you would need to change the dv spring to yellow.
(green 5-15 psi, yellow 15-23 psi, blue 23-30 psi, red 30 + psi)
It is also recommended to be installed in the reverse orientation. You also want to open the DV up once or twice a year to clean it and use high temperature grease (mobil 1).

You will need either OEM TT225 injectors (386cc) or Genesis (380cc). You can find some used in the classifieds or PM manguyen, he sells brand new TT225 for cheap!

Hope it helps! GL

[Chr1sJohnson]

I have Apr Stage 1+ and I love it!

[J-jizzle]

. You also want to open the DV up once or twice a year to clean it and use high temperature grease (mobil 1).



Hope it helps! GL

I re-grease mine every oil change or sooner if I get bored. I rekon I'm OCD or something.

[EBG 18T]

If you go with APR, GIAC, MTM or REVO 1+ (big injector File) you will be happy. Every company has it's followers and bashers. These companies wouldn't be in biz if they didn't produce a decent product. All the files are a little different but overall all are very good. These files have been around for a while now and are very predictable. I have 75k miles on my APR files and never had any issues. My last car had 100k+ miles on the APR file and never had any issues. With that being said, if i had a GIAC tuner closer when i did my software i would have gone with GIAC.

Personally i would find a shop you like working with and go with the software they offer. The shop will be very important if anything arrises down the road.

As far as DV's. The OEM 710N is fine. I swapped out from my Hyperboost to a new 710N and everything is smoother.

With the injectors, buy which ever injectors the software is designed for. GIAC, MTM & APR all have 'prefered' injectors. These are the injectors they wrote the software for.

If you search any of these topics here or on AW you will find hours of reading.

[jaynyce]

Also if you just want stage 1 now, then want to go to stage 1+ later there is no charge (other than the injectors) at most shops.

i find that statement to be false about not being charged for stage1+, try going to Grandprix tuning out in li, NY, that S.O.B would charge every penny. Also try to get to get Warranty from him and see if you don't end up waiting years. It has happened to my AWE Vent Boost gauge, and my Carbonio carbon fiber CAI.

[Pr0n]

i find that statement to be false about not being charged for stage1+, try going to Grandprix tuning out in li, NY, that S.O.B would charge every penny. Also try to get to get Warranty from him and see if you don't end up waiting years. It has happened to my AWE Vent Boost gauge, and my Carbonio carbon fiber CAI.

There is no charge for the software itself (ie: $499) but some shops will probably charge labour or "hook up" fee which I'm guessing should be a flat rate or 1/2 hour labour at the most.

[NightRoller USP]

I have a friend with a 2002 a4 and he swears by his Giac chip, says it the best bang for your buck.

[Bballplayr9]

APR 1+ and GIAC are both nice. Get stage 1+ though or GIAC X chip, the regular stage 1 isnt enough in my opinion. To the 2nd poster, take it easy, he's new to posting on forums he'll get it.

thanks man iwas like wtf bro relax sorry lol but thanks every1 for ur help. greatly appreciated just got two jobs so hope to be modding a lot very soon

[ColinGruenfeld]

thanks man iwas like wtf bro relax sorry lol but thanks every1 for ur help. greatly appreciated just got two jobs so hope to be modding a lot very soon

my giac stage 1 smoked an apr 1+
APR sucks in my opinion - they tune for reliability
I tune for fun (aka giac), but its up to u

[A4ringedONE8T]

my giac stage 1 smoked an apr 1+
APR sucks in my opinion - they tune for reliability
I tune for fun (aka giac), but its up to u

lol wow, one of you couldnt drive then. All of the stock turbo flashes, despite the tuner, will be very very close. Nothing thats going to "smoke" one of the others ....

[A4ringedONE8T]

I took the test trial of APR and REVO and have got to say that i was more impressed with the APR tune.

Im not going to get chipped at all because im going BT

You do realize that BT software is just an upgrade charge if previously flashed? IE, if you buy REVO stage 1 now ($499), then upgrade to a GTRS and now in need of REVO stage 3, it is a $200 upgrade. If you remain unflashed then go to a GTRS and REVO stage 3, the software is $699

$499 + $200 = $699

[widgget]

There is no charge for the software itself (ie: $499) but some shops will probably charge labour or "hook up" fee which I'm guessing should be a flat rate or 1/2 hour labour at the most.

This might depend on what you are upgrading from andto, if you go from APR Stage 1+ to Stage 2 (K04 file) it is $199 to APR PLUS shop labor if they deside to charge you for it.

i regret goign APR since i needed to go Revo to support the GTRS turbo and it's very hard to find someone with a matching ECU that wants to trade and then both ECUs will need to have the immobilizers reset (around $150 (each) at a dealer to get this done). so even if you did find someone it's going to cost $300 just to have the immobilizers done and shipping, a new chip is only $499, you woudl be luck to get $50 back once all is said and done and for the hassle of not having your car while the ECUs are in the mail just wouldn't be worth it.

Go with Revo so that you will have options later down the road if you ever decide you want more.

I REALLY dislike APR and will never buy one of their products again, there are plenty of posts out there as you have seen so i'm not going to go into all the details again.

REVO 110%!!!!!!!

[zims666]

sorry, gotta "throw another hat in the ring"... any thoughts on unitronic?
theres not just "the big three" out there

x2 on going with the closest reliable tuner

[a4darkness]

Can you elaborate Barry? TIA

i have APR 1+...don't really like it.

[a4darkness]

That's a good call... I often forget about Unitronic. Do anyone know of a comprehensive post somewhere detailing their standard upgrades [flash + BT] and the gains associated? Their site is a bit... ambiguous.

sorry, gotta "throw another hat in the ring"... any thoughts on unitronic?
theres not just "the big three" out there

x2 on going with the closest reliable tuner

[Audituning02]

I bought my B6 1.8t a few months back and the first thing I did was go to a local shop that does the Revo flash and had the "5 hr Free trial" installed I was told that when the trial was over the car would return to stock setting w/ no problems. The HP gain and the torque pull was great, however as soon as the trial was over the check engine light came on and the car freaked out and blew a vaccum valve. My brake pedal came all the way up and locked, the car wouldnt run and idle and the steering went dead. I scanned the code and it read " Camshaft position sensor output too high" I contacted the vendor and all he could offer me was " Hmm I've never had this happen before, he contacted Revo and they said the same thing" so my experience overall wasnt great

[Papachristou]

my giac stage 1 smoked an apr 1+
APR sucks in my opinion - they tune for reliability
I tune for fun (aka giac), but its up to u

how do you know they werent an automatic? or werent racing?


i have APR and also dislike their customer service and hardware but their software is pretty solid... however i see you have a 02 model... if you search for apr lean code you will see many people with 02 models and APR 1+ flashes get some lean code.. it doesnt seem to affect the 03/04 models

[widgget]

how do you know they werent an automatic? or werent racing?


i have APR and also dislike their customer service and hardware but their software is pretty solid... however i see you have a 02 model... if you search for apr lean code you will see many people with 02 models and APR 1+ flashes get some lean code.. it doesnt seem to affect the 03/04 models

I never had a problem with APR 1+ or 2 software BUT there is really no upgrade path past that aside from going with a FULL APR stage 3 Kit which is insane money where with Revo and Uni (don't know about Giac) you can go Stage 3 as an upgrade for minimal cost. I told APR that I was selling my car and wanted to swap the software to another ECU and put mine back to stock, the rep on the phone kinda chuckled and said we can't do that but we will be happy to flash yours back to stock but you would need to pay all the shipping fees or I could try to sell it or swap it with my new car. WTF!? you don't care if i sell your software or use it in another car but tell me (in a very rude way) that your not going to help me do it?! nah, i don't need to deal with assholes.

As for the 02 that "didn't work" after the Revo tune, any time you get more power out of your engine you are putting more stress on your engine. The hose i would expect, it's a 6 year old car known for hot engine bay temps and brittle hoses. the steering issue...... i reallly doubt that a performance flash is going to do ANYTHING to the hydraulic system for the steering. and the camshaft, well thing do and can break. My own opinion, and thats all it is, is that you just got hit with a few unfortunately strokes of bad luck which happened to be right after your trial ended.

[smarrick]

how do you know they werent an automatic? or werent racing?

what?

[Audituning02]

As for the 02 that "didn't work" after the Revo tune, any time you get more power out of your engine you are putting more stress on your engine. The hose i would expect, it's a 6 year old car known for hot engine bay temps and brittle hoses. the steering issue...... i reallly doubt that a performance flash is going to do ANYTHING to the hydraulic system for the steering. and the camshaft, well thing do and can break. My own opinion, and thats all it is, is that you just got hit with a few unfortunately strokes of bad luck which happened to be right after your trial ended.
__________________
Not coincidental, the car was scanned for codes prior to Revo Flash, no codes found. The trial ended and immediately the check engine light came on and immediately after that the vacuum valve blew apart and the brakes and steering locked up due to no vaccum.

[Audituning02]

Not only that but Camshaft position sensor code would not happen under any normal circumstance and once the valve was replaced and the code cleared I didnt have to replace the sensor so...obviously the car just rejected the flash. I think had i just bought the software and not done the trial this would not have happend I think the car just got confused when the trial ended and just kinda had a brain fart and didnt really know what to do. If you think about it when you flash your ECU you are rewritting files on the cars computer and how is it really suppose to know to just go back to stock settings in the middle of a drive? I'm not saying Revo isnt the way to go just sharing my personal experience. I would even consider actually purchasing it but after much research I think I will go GIAC

[cloaked]

lol wow, one of you couldnt drive then. All of the stock turbo flashes, despite the tuner, will be very very close. Nothing thats going to "smoke" one of the others ....

Not true, there is a big difference in the delivery of power between the APR + 1 and the Giac X files. The Giac has a lot more punch because of the (aggressive TQ Map) on take off. The APR is very smooth power delivery more for everyday and spirted driving, Giac short sprints 1/8 mile or shorter.

[a4darkness]

Seeing Stage 1+ dyno graphs for both would be interesting. Let's see what a search yields...

APR Stage 1+ (belongs to [IX] )
TT225
CAT Delete Custom Thermal Exhaust
Evolutiom FMIC
Carbonio Cold Air



Another... this is from APR:



GIAC (originally posted by Tgr_Clw here)
Blue: stock
Red: chipped (stage 1)
Green: chipped + injectors (stage 1+)
[Same car, same day, same dyno. No exhaust or IC upgrades.]

[b6onboost]

It's very hard to compare those 3 graphs, infact, nearly pointless. The scales are different and they are actually showing different things.

1. Is wheel hp/tq on a dynojet
2. Is APR's claimed crank hp/tq
3. Is wheel hp/tq on a dynodynamics (very conservatice dyno)

GIAC X, APR 1+, and Revo II are all injector files and make very similar gains. GIAC chips always seem a tad more aggressive, you get a larger torque spike so they can 'feel' quicker, but the overall performance difference is very minimal.

[a4darkness]

I completely agree, b6onboost. I was just trying to find some point of reference for cloaked's "Giac punch" vs "APR smooth" comment. Not sure if that was accomplished by pulling the graphs though... more just food for thought. My intent was not a side by side comparison since, like you've mentioned, there's so many factors to consider.

[widgget]

Not only that but Camshaft position sensor code would not happen under any normal circumstance and once the valve was replaced and the code cleared I didnt have to replace the sensor so...obviously the car just rejected the flash. I think had i just bought the software and not done the trial this would not have happend I think the car just got confused when the trial ended and just kinda had a brain fart and didnt really know what to do. If you think about it when you flash your ECU you are rewritting files on the cars computer and how is it really suppose to know to just go back to stock settings in the middle of a drive? I'm not saying Revo isnt the way to go just sharing my personal experience. I would even consider actually purchasing it but after much research I think I will go GIAC

Your computer got confused and didn't know what do to and it blew your vacuum valve apart? with what a little hammer? You obviously have no concept of how the car works or a computer for that matter, they don't just "get confused and don't know what to do". I have been in the computer field for over 14 years now and i just don't understand how you are coming up with this explanation.

[cloaked]

I completely agreed, b6onboost. I was just trying to find some point of reference for cloaked's "Giac punch" vs "APR smooth" comment. Not sure if that was accomplished by pulling the graphs though... more just food for thought. My intent was not a side by side comparison since, like you've mentioned, there's so many factors to consider.

My comment was made based on having each tune GIAC and APR installed on my B6 A4. My car had no changes other than the two different reflashes.

[PRY4SNO]

Unitronic.

[a4darkness]

Gotcha. Again, wasn't looking to prove anything... just get a comparison going. Nothing more, nothing less.

I comment was made based on having each tune GIAC and APR installed on my B6 A4. My car had no changes other than the two different reflashes.