Lets talk about EGT !

[Don Supreme]

In the exhaust manifold or in the down pipe?

Pre-Turbo:

• More accurate and higher temps (good)
• Possible turbo damage if EGT probe breaks, weaken exhaust mani? (BAD)

In the downpipe:

• Safer for turbo and Exhaust Manifold (Good)
• Less accuracy (lower temps due to heat loss in the turbo), slower response

What do you guys think? Is the loss of accuracy in the down pipe a big deal?

[djwimbo]

Personally, I'd prefer to put it in the DP, BUT I have no experience w/ EGT's on gassers. A couple of my buddies have TDi's and boner's over their EGT's.

[gotaudi]

isnt the whole point of a gauge is to be as accurate as possible(unless you are the stock cluster, lol)?

[mike-2ptzero]

Been running a K probe in my Full-race manifold since it went into the car back in 2003. It isn't like the EGT probes are known for breaking or melting off since they are good for well over the 1600F degs your car is ever going to make.

[aytheory]

depends on application - if you want to tune your car then mani - if you just want to monitor it then after turbo

[mike-2ptzero]

depends on application - if you want to tune your car then mani - if you just want to monitor it then after turbo

But if it is after the person wont have a clue on what his EGT's really are, this could mean that he is well over 1600F while his gauge is showing a much lower temp.

[djwimbo]

how much heat loss will there be through the turbo?

[passatkid]

All diesel guy put them in the pre-turbo for the most part, never heard of one failing, and diesel get 1700+ hot some time.

[mike-2ptzero]

how much heat loss will there be through the turbo?

Can be up to 300F degs.


BTW, as stated on a web site for EGT probes.

The Exhaust Gas Temperature Probe is capable of surviving vibration and heat up to2200 degrees F (1200 degrees C).

[Das General]

How much of role does this temp play when tuning?

[djwimbo]

High combustion temps are from running lean. Higher temps increase NOx emissions and can cause misfires/detonation.

[pac1085]

How much of role does this temp play when tuning?

don't think it plays as huge of a role as it did back in the day when wideband o2's didn't exist, but still helpful on high strung engines

[mike-2ptzero]

How much of role does this temp play when tuning?

A good amount, this is why our S4's come with EGT probes stock. Even the 2001+ A4's use EGT readings from the stock wide band 02 sensor. You can have a perfect AFR reading with the EGT's completely off from where they should be.

EGT's can also tell you when your getting misfire even though your AFR is saying rich or lean. EGT's can also help you tune the car to get the most power out of your engine.

[Don Supreme]

Mike,

What do your EGTs peak @ during a 4th gear pull on your 110 octane tune?

[mike-2ptzero]

Mike,

What do your EGTs peak @ during a 4th gear pull on your 110 octane tune?

Right around 1500F-1550F, but I only glance that way during a run. On my next trip to the track I will be logging my EGT's, just need to figure out why the Auxbox is not reading the EGT's correctly. Seems that others have had the same issue and ended up having to get it reprogrammed.

[Don Supreme]

I thinking I am going with the Zeitronix Zt-2 setup to read everything.....

It has has a really cool complex alarm feature to boot.

For example:
You can program it to alarm if the following conditions are met:

If ((AFR >= 12.1) && (RPM >= 5000) && (Boost >= 20 PSI))
{
TriggerAlarm();
}

[bassed]

I thinking I am going with the Zeitronix Zt-2 setup to read everything.....

It has has a really cool complex alarm feature to boot.

For example:
You can program it to alarm if the following conditions are met:

If ((AFR >= 12.1) && (RPM >= 5000) && (Boost >= 20 PSI))
{
TriggerAlarm();
}

Great choice, just have the Mani tapped
for the EGT.

[mike-2ptzero]

Only down side is that it doesn't have a "calibration" feature.

[AudiA4_20T]

Sean your all about your programming stuff lol

[Don Supreme]

Only down side is that it doesn't have a "calibration" feature.

Indeed that is a slight concern, the lc-1 + guage setup can't even read RPM without spending more.

[Don Supreme]

Sean your all about your programming stuff lol

.... We could do some amazing things if we could modify the ME7 source, not just the maps, but the actual application code.

[AudiA4_20T]

.... We could do some amazing things if we could modify the ME7 source, not just the maps, but the actual application code.

lol I dont know why your saying "we" God knows I dont know a friggin thing about that... When are we going to get the damos files?

[mike-2ptzero]

Indeed that is a slight concern, the lc-1 + guage setup can't even read RPM without spending more.

Yeah, but the Auxbox is $250 or less. It adds rpm, boost, EGT, duty cycle and even G force. You can even use the channels to hook up 5v external sensors and even daisy chain more boxes.


Innovate also has the 0T-1 which can be wired right into the OBD port to log OEM sensors. It works with the LC-1.

[Don Supreme]

Does the auxbox read RPM with the $99 inductiive clamp add on? Also, you need to hook up your laptop to view all those additional readings. The Zeitronix display allow you to view more than just AFR.

[mike-2ptzero]

Does the auxbox read RPM with the $99 inductiive clamp add on? Also, you need to hook up your laptop to view all those additional readings. The Zeitronix display allow you to view more than just AFR.

No, you just hook up the tach wire directly into the auxbox. On mine I ran a wire from my tach output on my IIC to power my shift light, SW 8k tach, and the Auxbox. I used to run the stock tach off the same wire.

yes you need to hook it up to a lap top to read the rpms. What is reading the rpms on the zeitronix box going to do for you since you can already see it on the tach on the cluster? Even with their stuff you still need to plug it into a lap top to read the log.

On the Innovate stuff you can just plug in another gauge to read out RPM or go with the new LM2 which reads it out right on the display.

Funny thing is my friend had a LC1 that he never installed. Then he ended up buying the Zeitronix with the display, but he ended up putting it in a spot that doesn't even allow him to see it while he is driving. His LC1 is sitting in his garage.

[Don Supreme]

Well what I want to see is the EGT + AFR without my car looking like an aircraft cockpit.

[djwimbo]

I'm ok w/ gauges as long as they serve an honest purpose.
4-5 additional gauges to stock: Boost, oil press, EGT, wideband, and fuel pressure. Not in order of importance. That's just the limit of info I feel I would need.

[bassed]

Well what I want to see is the EGT + AFR without my car looking like an aircraft cockpit.

If you want to monitor and not log, take a look at the Podi guage and just get AFR and EGT in one. If you want to log you have the Zeitronix or the Innovate options, I am torn myself since I have the LC-1 and DB guage but wish I just did Zeitronix to start with.

[AudiA4_20T]

If you want to monitor and not log, take a look at the Podi guage and just get AFR and EGT in one. If you want to log you have the Zeitronix or the Innovate options, I am torn myself since I have the LC-1 and DB guage but wish I just did Zeitronix to start with.

Sean, thats going to be your best bet. Get the podi with the double gauge, or get another center vent gauge with the VEI setup

[Don Supreme]

You are all missing the point.
Boost Guage
AFR Guage
EGT Guage
*********** What Next - A water meth flow guage? *************

My previous "mod" car had about 6 guages and I don't want that again.

I definitely need logging capabilities that are RPM specific.

Plus, I really like that alarm feature, if nothing else I could use the alarm / trigger for a shift light / shift alarm (SINCE MY TACH ONLY GOES TO 7500 mwuhaha)

[AudiA4_20T]

You are all missing the point.
Boost Guage
AFR Guage
EGT Guage
*********** What Next - A water meth flow guage? *************

My previous "mod" car had about 6 guages and I don't want that again.

I definitely need logging capabilities that are RPM specific.

Plus, I really like that alarm feature, if nothing else I could use the alarm / trigger for a shift light / shift alarm (SINCE MY TACH ONLY GOES TO 7500 mwuhaha)

you can get the AFR and EGT in 1 gauge.... Why do you care about logging you can see it when your driving? Ill shotgun lol

[dougyfresh]

Logging writes it down and he has it in a text file for future reference. Helps with making changes to the tune. Esp if you guys start tweaking ME7 and such.

Besides, you're not staring at the gage while running down the 1/4 mile. It'll be nice to look at a text file post-race to see how things were going and learn for the next pull.

[Don Supreme]

Logging writes it down and he has it in a text file for future reference. Helps with making changes to the tune. Esp if you guys start tweaking ME7 and such.

Besides, you're not staring at the gage while running down the 1/4 mile. It'll be nice to look at a text file post-race to see how things were going and learn for the next pull.

Exactly!!!

afr might be 11.8 @ 5000 rpm and then 10.5 @ 5300 RPM and then back to to 12.1 @ 6200 RPM.... (bad tune)

You need to log so that the tuner (who ever that maybe) can make a consistent afr or so I can tell when my injectors, pump, lines, or whatever is starting to max out.

[Don Supreme]

P.S. Clint

A B6 really wouldn't need a unit like this... A guage is good enough for you since you can already log all of this info in vag-com (less the pre-turbo egt of course).

[mike-2ptzero]

you can get the AFR and EGT in 1 gauge.... Why do you care about logging you can see it when your driving? Ill shotgun lol

You can never look at the gauge for more then a split second when running the car hard and that doesn't tell you anything about how the car is running other then for that split second. Data logging is the only way to know exactly how the car is running for the full run, be it 1 gear pulls or running thru 4 gears.

P.S. Clint

A B6 really wouldn't need a unit like this... A guage is good enough for you since you can already log all of this info in vag-com (less the pre-turbo egt of course).

LOL, Vagcom is very slow and you can only log so many blocks at 1 time. Innovate has a product that plugs also plugs right into the OBD port, but it allows you to log up to 16 different things not must 1-3 blocks. Funny thing is that it cost $149 which is actually cheaper then a Vagcom cable.

The Innovate OpenTune TM OBD-II / CAN Interface

The OpenTune interface allows high speed data logging from any car, truck, and SUV made since 1996, and integrates with Innovate air/fuel meters and other modular tuning system (MTS) components. As more and more people are using modern electronics to tune their late-model cars, trucks, or SUVs, demand is growing for tools that offer full scan and diagnostic capabilities. The Innovate OpenTune system offers just that, combining affordability and ease of use with professional-quality data rates, parameter selections, and analysis capabilities.

Car computers these days are connected to hundreds of sophisticated sensors. The OT-1 allows you to “open” any car’s computer, and directly see what these sensors are measuring. Users can select up to 16 channels from hundreds of available parameters, and log the data 12 times per second. Users can also record up to 28 conditions, states, and codes as “status” channels, and reset check engine lights and other trouble codes.

Select and log any 16 of hundreds of available parameters.
“Fast packet” logging (12 samples/second on all channels) for fully-synchronous high-speed data.
Includes industry-leading LogWorks 3.0 engine analysis software with user-customizable skins and real time horsepower and torque calculators.
Fully compliant with the Innovate Modular Tuning System (MTS). Log directly into LogWorks or into a DL-32, while integrating wideband air/fuel ratio sensors, accelerometers, thermocouples, and other sensors.
Display and clear any trouble codes.
Display live data on Innovate XD-16 gauges or LogWorks 3.0 PC application.

[dougyfresh]

LOL, Vagcom is very slow and you can only log so many blocks at 1 time. Innovate has a product that plugs also plugs right into the OBD port, but it allows you to log up to 16 different things not must 1-3 blocks. Funny thing is that it cost $149 which is actually cheaper then a Vagcom cable.

That is the way to do it.

I hate how little data VAG-Com captures due to its slow sample rate. Not to mention only being able to record 3 channels at once.

[Don Supreme]

The APR ECU explorer has a faster sample rate than vag-com.

That box is pretty bad ass for only $149.

Nice.

[DND]

LOL, Vagcom is very slow and you can only log so many blocks at 1 time.

I thought that was more of an issue with the freeware version versus the expensive cable and license from Ross-Tech?

Wow! Are those software gauges real time and accurate? I want one permanently hooked up to a carputer if they are!

[a220vt]

The new Zeitronix touch screen can log OBDII and all the other stuff, all to an SD card. It's pretty pricey though, around $600 I think. Anyway, I had the LC-1 at first and switched to the ZT-2. I like it a lot better.

[mike-2ptzero]

I thought that was more of an issue with the freeware version versus the expensive cable and license from Ross-Tech?



Wow! Are those software gauges real time and accurate? I want one permanently hooked up to a carputer if they are!

Yes they are real time. Nice part is you can customize the gauge screen my changing the size of each gauge and moving them around to the spot you want. Even change the skin and color of each part of the gauges. What I like is the fact that it gives you a needle and digital reading for each gauge.