Ceramic Clutch Mystery

[nvrfollow]

I just installed a ceramic clutch and after 1500 miles decided it was time to launch.

4-5 k launch all 4 tires burning, annnnd then it wont go into second!

I was with a fellow B5er, we decided that the pressure plate got all phucked on the flywheel side, the throw-out bearing popped out somehow, or my clutch welded to the flywheel, but really had no idea

After matching gears all the way across town i parked the car for about 45min. On the way home it was still broken and just out of habit I put the clutch in and the rpm's dropped! It started working just fine again.

So did the clutch temporarily stick to the flywheel?

Thanks!

[rcjustin]

yes. this is exactly what happened to me. The first time i got it to break loose but the second time i was not so lucky. These crap ceramic clutchs are not designed well. Ceramic creats alot of friction and therefor heat. A ceramic clutch chould be a puck clutch so it has time to cool. All of these ceramic clutches like, in my case, th vast stage 3 are full fac and overheat veryeasily and melt to th flyweel. I have since switched to a clutchmasters setup. Sucks because now u really shouldnt launch the car anymore because it will most likeely happn again and could b permanently stuck like min was and u will hav to chisel it apart. What clutch is it?

[HeveyS4]

I dont know what you guys have done but my vast RS4 Ceramic clutch is great. haven't had a single problem and i just love it.

[onemoremile]

Ceramic melting to steel? Not very likely.

[The_Jerbel]

yes. this is exactly what happened to me. The first time i got it to break loose but the second time i was not so lucky. These crap ceramic clutchs are not designed well. Ceramic creats alot of friction and therefor heat. A ceramic clutch chould be a puck clutch so it has time to cool. All of these ceramic clutches like, in my case, th vast stage 3 are full fac and overheat veryeasily and melt to th flyweel. I have since switched to a clutchmasters setup. Sucks because now u really shouldnt launch the car anymore because it will most likeely happn again and could b permanently stuck like min was and u will hav to chisel it apart. What clutch is it?

Man, you need to quit your ranting and raving just because you got one bad apple.
Ceramic clutches are probably the most user friendly, strong, reliable clutches available right now. Ceramic isn't going to melt to steel. Do your ceramic brake pads melt to your rotors? Not likely.

[Rajan147]

Ceramic clutches are probably the most user friendly, strong, reliable clutches available right now. Ceramic isn't going to melt to steel. Do your ceramic brake pads melt to your rotors? Not likely.

+1

i got a lwfw and ceramic clutch, almost zero chatter after a week of breaking it in and the clutch grabs like gorilla.

i was worried about this setup at first due to the reviews i've read but after install, i dont think i'll go anything less next time.

I'll say that a good install on any clutch is mandatory, my tranny feels brand new with new fluids, new fw friction disc on used fw, disc and pp.

Launching any car puts extra stress on the transmission, resulting in shit breaking, period.

[Papachristou]

Man, you need to quit your ranting and raving just because you got one bad apple.
Ceramic clutches are probably the most user friendly, strong, reliable clutches available right now. Ceramic isn't going to melt to steel. Do your ceramic brake pads melt to your rotors? Not likely.

good point....

[Das General]

Ceramic is good with dissipating heat.

[nvrfollow]

The clutch was definitely stuck to the flywheel and it unstuck itself when i did a full 1st gear excell...

Regardless I'm going to the track on Fri. and launching the hell out of it, if it sticks it sticks. I'm not going to baby a clutch i got specifically for launching.

I've decided for the next launch i'm not going to start revving until the first yellow and when i drop it i'm just going to drop it. (not slip it too much) I'll probably break something else or bog down though.

How does everyone else do it? After all it is the same clutch the JHM car uses and he launches more than anyone.

[exorcet]

How does everyone else do it? After all it is the same clutch the JHM car uses and he launches more than anyone.

i have the southbend OFE w/ rs4 pp -- i just swing RPMS from ~3.5k-4.5k and try to drop the clutch at ~3800rpm on the upswing and bury the gas pedal the same time the clutch hits.

i don't do it often (maybe 8 times total in the last 4 months) but each time it's launched great, grabbed well and felt good overall.

[Das General]

The clutch was definitely stuck to the flywheel and it unstuck itself when i did a full 1st gear excell...

Regardless I'm going to the track on Fri. and launching the hell out of it, if it sticks it sticks. I'm not going to baby a clutch i got specifically for launching.

I've decided for the next launch i'm not going to start revving until the first yellow and when i drop it i'm just going to drop it. (not slip it too much) I'll probably break something else or bog down though.

How does everyone else do it? After all it is the same clutch the JHM car uses and he launches more than anyone.

What stage are you?

I used to rev my car to about 4500 rpms. Then drop the clutch and go WOT at the same time. Worked pretty good as I cut 1.7 and 1.8's at stage 2.

[nvrfollow]

What stage are you?

I used to rev my car to about 4500 rpms. Then drop the clutch and go WOT at the same time. Worked pretty good as I cut 1.7 and 1.8's at stage 2.

I'm only at 3- and in this particular case it think it's bobbing that caused this to happen. Even with the clutch pedal all the way in i think it still causes some friction???

I held it at about 4500 and on the upswing I put the gas to the floor and let the clutch all the way out... I think i was running too many rpm's for too long with the clutch pedal all the way in, in gear.

In other words it seems as though i need to find the right rpms and then let it all the way out as fast as i can.

I'm gonna go try it here pretty soon, let you know how it goes

[Das General]

PM TommyGunn, he is stage 3- and is judging by his recent footage, he can drive/launch.

[The_Jerbel]

I have done some 5500 rpms clutch drops on that clutch. It grabs like hell and the word "launch" takes on a new meaning

[Das General]

Puts your ass back in that seat.

[rcjustin]

Man, you need to quit your ranting and raving just because you got one bad apple.
Ceramic clutches are probably the most user friendly, strong, reliable clutches available right now. Ceramic isn't going to melt to steel. Do your ceramic brake pads melt to your rotors? Not likely.

My "ranting and raving" is well waranted. I just think that people need to know how a clutch works. I am not te first to have it happen according to vast. And as far as saying it cant happen? would you like a picture? Its apart now via chisel and you can clearly see where it overhated and melted to the flywheel.

[rcjustin]

On another note, every other vas product on my car i love and got for great prices. Customer service is normally top notch, i understand its a clutch and there is no warranty. Just warning people of what can happen with the stag 3 from had launches. If i could go back and sart over i would have chosen stage 2.

[blrx7r1]

i have the southbend OFE w/ rs4 pp -- i just swing RPMS from ~3.5k-4.5k and try to drop the clutch at ~3800rpm on the upswing and bury the gas pedal the same time the clutch hits.

i don't do it often (maybe 8 times total in the last 4 months) but each time it's launched great, grabbed well and felt good overall.

Thats good to know I was considering the OFE but am leary of the RS4 PP. What I'd like to do is combine the OFE disk with the CM PP. Not sure if those items can be purchased individually.

[Jesse S.]

I have this same clutch with fidanza flywheel. I havent had any problems, but I havent launched it since it was installed in January of this year.

[The_Jerbel]

rcjustin,
Like I said, you got a bad apple. You're not the first one to have it happen, but you can count all the cases in which that happened on one hand. Half of one hand.
Maybe the clutch material on your disk wasn't made and/or applied correctly. There are a lot of reasons that your clutch may have been a faulty unit, but ceramic won't fuse to steel under normal clutch operating conditions, even when launched hard. Again, think about ceramic brake pads.

[rcjustin]

That is fair but if it was a bad apple or faulty then why didnt vast offer to refund or replace the clutch. In the end i was pretty much SOL.

rcjustin,
Like I said, you got a bad apple. You're not the first one to have it happen, but you can count all the cases in which that happened on one hand. Half of one hand.
Maybe the clutch material on your disk wasn't made and/or applied correctly. There are a lot of reasons that your clutch may have been a faulty unit, but ceramic won't fuse to steel under normal clutch operating conditions, even when launched hard. Again, think about ceramic break pads.

[The_Jerbel]

Because there's so many ways in which a person can abuse and shorten the life of the clutch disk, that VAST can't offer a warranty on their clutches or else they'd drive themselves into the poor house. Think about the clueless chick that revs to 5000 rpms and SLOWLY lets out the clutch every time she pulls away from a red light. How long do you think that clutch would last?
It's true, you were SOL, but so are all the rest of us when our K03's blow and we have to fork out for new turbos. Or the 1-2 gear coupler in the tranny fails, or the ECU gets fried, or.....the list goes on. These cars are not Mk2 Jettas, we're playing an expensive game with these S4's.

[joules]

I just installed a ceramic clutch and after 1500 miles decided it was time to launch.

4-5 k launch all 4 tires burning, annnnd then it wont go into second!

I was with a fellow B5er, we decided that the pressure plate got all phucked on the flywheel side, the throw-out bearing popped out somehow, or my clutch welded to the flywheel, but really had no idea

After matching gears all the way across town i parked the car for about 45min. On the way home it was still broken and just out of habit I put the clutch in and the rpm's dropped! It started working just fine again.

So did the clutch temporarily stick to the flywheel?

Thanks!

Exact same thing happened to me with a CM Stage 4--problem is, while the clutch worked again after 35 minutes, it is consistently .2-.3 seconds slower at the 60 ft, and .5-.6 seconds slower in the 0-60 mph times. I have approx. 4,000 miles on the clutch. Clutchmasters customer service had good general advice for use of this clutch, but seemed to know no reason why my launch times are slower. I might believe that just by coincidence, my car is running poorer, but the exact same pattern happened with my last clutch, a Spec Stage 3, albeit with 20,000 miles. After clutch replacement, the quickness was restored. I just hope that a CM Stage 4, with LWFW at $1600 is good for more than 4k miles and 8 hard launches. Am I missing something? Clues, anyone?

[bobbyfali]

I dont know what you guys have done but my vast RS4 Ceramic clutch is great. haven't had a single problem and i just love it.

Sorry I know this is off topic to this thread, but HeveyS4 your car looks so cleeeeaannnn, mean and hot! Do you have more pics of your ride from different angles, what is that front lip (I saw it before but don't remember), what side skirts and I can't see anything else with that one pic.


Thanks

Bobby Ali

BA

[bobbyfali]

+1

i got a lwfw and ceramic clutch, almost zero chatter after a week of breaking it in and the clutch grabs like gorilla.

i was worried about this setup at first due to the reviews i've read but after install, i dont think i'll go anything less next time.

I'll say that a good install on any clutch is mandatory, my tranny feels brand new with new fluids, new fw friction disc on used fw, disc and pp.

Launching any car puts extra stress on the transmission, resulting in shit breaking, period.

+2. I have a AWE LWFW with stg3 ceramic (same set up as JHM) and all I can say is this is a AWESOME set up for Daily Driving....yes I said DD, hardly no chatter and feels better then my RS4 and AWE LWFW (mind you that set up had 70 000KM, but had tons of life left when I opened everything up). Jason can also attest to this set up for all out racing as well.

I would 110% recommend my set up to anyone!

Thanks

Bobby Ali

BA

[Das General]

Sorry I know this is off topic to this thread, but HeveyS4 your car looks so cleeeeaannnn, mean and hot! Do you have more pics of your ride from different angles, what is that front lip (I saw it before but don't remember), what side skirts and I can't see anything else with that one pic.


Thanks

Bobby Ali

BA

IIRC Hev uses a Reiger front with V2 side skirts and the LLtek CF lip, coupled with BBS LM's. I could be wrong, but then again my car looks exactly like his!

[nvrfollow]

Update: Went to the track clutch works great, and it must have broken in even more as it is much smoother when it engages