What engine management to use?

[97A4quattro]

I currently have a 97' A4 1.8T Quattro......Recently got few things done....
-intercooler
-piping/couplers
-HKS SSQ BOV
-Tial wastegate
-3" turbo back exhaust
- .57 trim turbo
-cheap turbo mani

Would like to get some engine management, without reflashing(sending it back every time needed). What is avaliable?
The problem is I keep getting different answers from everyone......I would just like some straight answers.
And one more thing, I don't have $1500 and up to spend on such things. The reason I say this, because people keep talking about 034 Motorsports EM, I don't have that kind of cash. This is being done on a budget, so it's not possible.
I live in Jackson, MI 49203.

[t1demont1]

TAPP tune and dont run a hks ssq unless you feel the absolute undying need to run one of those annoying things then recirculate it. The AEB motors dont have a map sensor and wideband built in so you have to run a maf, and with a maf you gotta recirculate. If you were to go standalone though, id go lugtronic

[pac1085]

there is no such thing as cheap standalone..even if you buy a cheap one

[big_greasy_taco]

stand alone and cheap dont got together, unless there is a not somewhere inbetween! Save some bucks and get the 034.

[gotaudi]

only cheap solution for you is something like megasquirt but you better know your stuff for that. the best way is to get a flash just talk with CTapp or unitronic they should be able to get the tune pretty close...

[blmlozz]

stand alone and cheap dont got together, unless there is a not somewhere inbetween! Save some bucks and get the 034.

trying to find some more info on the stageIIc unit from them, looking into getting that for my 28RS, know of any good links/info?
Thanks.

[turboquattro068]

Megasquirt is the way to go

[Wizard-of-OD]

Megasquirt is the way to go

LOL

Maybe you should tell him how many add on boxes he needs to run the AEB WITH all the sensors.

[STASIK A4]

Couple of us down under run Autronic SM2's and SM4's with CDI stand alone in our cars and the stock computer is still there just to run the dash and some other accessories as such....

[Side-Step]

TAPP tune and dont run a hks ssq unless you feel the absolute undying need to run one of those annoying things then recirculate it. The AEB motors dont have a map sensor and wideband built in so you have to run a maf, and with a maf you gotta recirculate. If you were to go standalone though, id go lugtronic

The Lugtronic looks like a very good choice. I like the fact that you use the factory wiring and add in the vacuum line, just like the VEMS unit.
Bing has a VEMS on his 92 S4 and seems to like it.

Another thing, if you upgrade anything, you plug in the laptop and tune it in!

Thumbs up for the Lugtronic piece.

[Siena]

VEMS is a very good choice.

Has multi-funtion, and doesn't cost the earth.

[mike-2ptzero]

trying to find some more info on the stageIIc unit from them, looking into getting that for my 28RS, know of any good links/info?
Thanks.

I run the IIC, you are more then welcome to ask any questions you have.

Couple of us down under run Autronic SM2's and SM4's with CDI stand alone in our cars and the stock computer is still there just to run the dash and some other accessories as such....

Only thing on the dash that works off the ECU is the tach. I run the 034 IIC and every thing on my dash works without my OEM ecu. Not even the ABS is controlled by the OEM ecu.

[Siena]

Sorry to digress here - Mike, does your car have DIS, and if so, is there any way to retain its functions, with standalone?

[mike-2ptzero]

Sorry to digress here - Mike, does your car have DIS, and if so, is there any way to retain its functions, with standalone?

DIS?

[bassed]

stand alone and cheap dont got together, unless there is a not somewhere inbetween! Save some bucks and get the 034.

Why? Go SDS or Lugtronic. This whole wanting cheap and mad power don't go together you have to pay to play regardless of Auto make or block type.


Mike is lucky enough to be in Cali and get support for the IIc others have had a he'll of a time like Bernie. The VEMS is also a great choice.

[killa]

I currently have a 97' A4 1.8T Quattro......Recently got few things done....
-intercooler
-piping/couplers
-HKS SSQ BOV
-Tial wastegate
-3" turbo back exhaust
- .57 trim turbo
-cheap turbo mani

Would like to get some engine management, without reflashing(sending it back every time needed). What is avaliable?
The problem is I keep getting different answers from everyone......I would just like some straight answers.
And one more thing, I don't have $1500 and up to spend on such things. The reason I say this, because people keep talking about 034 Motorsports EM, I don't have that kind of cash. This is being done on a budget, so it's not possible.
I live in Jackson, MI 49203.

Trim does not have a point in front of it, it's not a decimal.
hth

[4bagels]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but if you go standalone, what things stop working? Definitely OBD2 would stop working... how about other things like various dash gauges, hvac, etc? thx.

[Siena]

DIS?

Sorry, Mike.

I'm referring to the Driver Information System.

I know average speed, and driving time will still function.

I'm wondering if there's any way to retain average MPG, instantaneous MPG and range.

[pac1085]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but if you go standalone, what things stop working? Definitely OBD2 would stop working... how about other things like various dash gauges, hvac, etc? thx.

AC doesn't work either unless you have the stock ECU plugged in and have your TPS sensor plugged into the stock ECU.

[4bagels]

AC doesn't work either unless you have the stock ECU plugged in and have your TPS sensor plugged into the stock ECU.

Thanks! So OBD2 (for emissions inspections), A/C, and the tach will all stop working if the stock ECU is replaced by standalone efi...

[t1demont1]

never knew ac would stop working if you went standalone, that in itself is enough to never got standalone for me lol

[California Jay]

It can be overcome by just running an older pressure switch (2pin) to a relay... the relay can be activated by power out on the AC control.

[4bagels]

It can be overcome by just running an older pressure switch (2pin) to a relay... the relay can be activated by power out on the AC control.

Nice! It's good to have workarounds. I assume one small drawback would be that the AC wouldn't be turned off in high rpm situations (i think the stock ecu does that). Not sure if the AC compressor would like revving to 8000 rpm... but not sure.

[pac1085]

Thanks! So OBD2 (for emissions inspections), A/C, and the tach will all stop working if the stock ECU is replaced by standalone efi...

I left my stock ECU in the car to drive the tach (I split the signal from the VR sensor to go to both ECU's) but you can drive the tach directly from an output on an ECU like the 034.

[California Jay]

Nice! It's good to have workarounds. I assume one small drawback would be that the AC wouldn't be turned off in high rpm situations (i think the stock ecu does that). Not sure if the AC compressor would like revving to 8000 rpm... but not sure.

the other option is to run your relay circuit through a spare relay port in the 034 unit. You could tell it to interupt the power at "x" rpm to save the compressor.

[4bagels]

you guys are good, so AC and the tach can be managed. So the only thing that you have to give up with standalone is OBD2, and i suppose it depends on where u live if they do emissions testing through the OBD2 port.

[Wizard-of-OD]

The Lugtronic looks like a very good choice. I like the fact that you use the factory wiring and add in the vacuum line, just like the VEMS unit.
Bing has a VEMS on his 92 S4 and seems to like it.

Another thing, if you upgrade anything, you plug in the laptop and tune it in!

Thumbs up for the Lugtronic piece.

Motronic on the S4 is ALOT simpler than what came on the AEB's and the rest of the ME-5.8/7

[mike-2ptzero]

Sorry, Mike.

I'm referring to the Driver Information System.

I know average speed, and driving time will still function.

I'm wondering if there's any way to retain average MPG, instantaneous MPG and range.

Yes mine has it but I haven't used that part of the cluster in a long time seeing that I really cant read it anymore anyway.


I also haven't used the readings for MPG on that screen for a long time because they are based on the stock injectors.

[pac1085]

you guys are good, so AC and the tach can be managed. So the only thing that you have to give up with standalone is OBD2, and i suppose it depends on where u live if they do emissions testing through the OBD2 port.

OBD2 simulators do exist, but I haven't researched them much...

[97A4quattro]

Couple of us down under run Autronic SM2's and SM4's with CDI stand alone in our cars and the stock computer is still there just to run the dash and some other accessories as such....

Can't do that. I need to retain the comfort of the interior and I want everything to still work.

[Wizard-of-OD]

You can hide the ecu behind the glove box

[STASIK A4]

Can't do that. I need to retain the comfort of the interior and I want everything to still work.

Well everything still can be retained and everything can still work.... you just will have 2 computers in the car.... and the aftermarket computer willl controll the engine and not the stock one.....

[Wizard-of-OD]

Well everything still can be retained and everything can still work.... you just will have 2 computers in the car.... and the aftermarket computer willl controll the engine and not the stock one.....

In Australia you can afford to go with Autronic because if you have any issues the ecu manufacturer is a drive away.

In the US,034 leads in the SEM department for Audi because this is what we do.

Soon to be released:
* wideband capability
* drive by wire
* driver information and feedback
etc etc....

Reality is this,you can have a $15,000US ecu and if a clown is tuning it your vehicle will run like ass.The most powerful VAG cars in north america are still located @ 034 Motorsport.

[prodrive]

Both Aftermarket ECU's are good to go ,034 has a nice support page and forums ,most probably I would go with 034 EFI if I was living in US.

[STASIK A4]

In Australia you can afford to go with Autronic because if you have any issues the ecu manufacturer is a drive away.

Yea that is true.... I gueess i can say the same thing about most tunning company's like 034, stassis, matrix ect.... for Vag cars... I know how about we do a deal.... i will supply you with cheap autronics.... and you supply me with cheap tunning parts... ;) :D

Reality is this,you can have a $15,000US ecu and if a clown is tuning it your vehicle will run like ass.

Im not even going to dissagree with you on that one.... I think at the end of the day it all depends on how good the guy is... and if he is reallly goood he is reallly good....

[Wizard-of-OD]

Yea that is true.... I gueess i can say the same thing about most tunning company's like 034, stassis, matrix ect.... for Vag cars... I know how about we do a deal.... i will supply you with cheap autronics.... and you supply me with cheap tunning parts... ;) :D

Considering Autronic is no more....then what will you be providing me with?

[djwimbo]

This whole wanting cheap and mad power don't go together you have to pay to play regardless ...

Exactly.

If you can't afford a stand alone, and just want the thing tuned and done, call up Unitronic. They have a bunch of files on hand and ready to flash. Unfortunately there aren't any dealers around here, so you're a bit screwed. I've heard people and complain about almost every flash tune out there. The one I hear the least negative about and the most positive about is Unitronic. NO, I don't work for them, I'm just a happy customer reporting what I see.

My work is an authorized GIAC distributor, if he had a file for your setup I'd tell you to stop by, but we don't. Another reason why I don't like GIAC.

The other unfortunate side is that for the price of a big turbo file from Unitronic, you're half way to getting the hard parts of an 034 IIc.

[STASIK A4]

Exactly.



My work is an authorized GIAC distributor, if he had a file for your setup I'd tell you to stop by, but we don't. Another reason why I don't like GIAC.

First of all i want to say that im not here to Defend any one eventhough that im a retailer of GIAC here, but i just want to clarify few things for every one...

The reason as to why GIAC does not have every possible file is that they develop a performance file that is suitable for every one... from people who want power to people who want some improvement over stock...

Then there are companies out there like AWE and VF who develop BT kits which use the same injectors same maf sensors and same size turbos and they work together with a tunning company to develop this complete kit which is proven to work and with proven power....

Can you imagine if GIAC or any other company out there were just consentraining on every tom dick and harry and just tuned their cars and every car will have different injectors and diferent size turbos and they would need to spend lets say minimum of 12 hrs of tuning time from start to finish..... And lets say they charge $100 an hour.... do you think a customer willl pay $1200?
I dont think so..... So i hope every one understand why they do this and hope theres no hard feelings about this....

[mike-2ptzero]

First of all i want to say that im not here to Defend any one eventhough that im a retailer of GIAC here, but i just want to clarify few things for every one...

The reason as to why GIAC does not have every possible file is that they develop a performance file that is suitable for every one... from people who want power to people who want some improvement over stock...

Then there are companies out there like AWE and VF who develop BT kits which use the same injectors same maf sensors and same size turbos and they work together with a tunning company to develop this complete kit which is proven to work and with proven power....

Can you imagine if GIAC or any other company out there were just consentraining on every tom dick and harry and just tuned their cars and every car will have different injectors and diferent size turbos and they would need to spend lets say minimum of 12 hrs of tuning time from start to finish..... And lets say they charge $100 an hour.... do you think a customer willl pay $1200?
I dont think so..... So i hope every one understand why they do this and hope theres no hard feelings about this....

Actually there are people out there that are willing to pay $1200-$1500 for a fully custom tune done to their car right on a dyno. I have a B6 going to 034 to have this done once all the fab work is done and after the enigne is fully built to 2 liter by 034. I even talked to GIAC about custom tuning it and they were more then willing to work with me. GIAC did some custom tuning for GMG and doing tuning on a GT2871r kit for ER.

When I talk to a tuner about a custom tune, I usually let them tell me what injectors they want on the car before it shows up and most of the time the tuner already has a base file they can work off of, this means less time on the dyno will be needed to finish the job. For the B6, 034 will start off with a standard Uni BT 630 file and custom tune that file on the car using a UNI tuning software and I dont mean something like lemmiwinks.

If you think about it $1200-$1500 isn't all that bad seeing that the cookie cutter BT/BAT tunes out there cost $700-$900 as it is, this means the custom tune and dyno time is adding around $500-$600.

[djwimbo]

I'd pay $1200 for a custom tune. I probably will at some point.

I was unaware of the fact that GIAC offers an official "Big Turbo" file for 2001 A4 customers. (according to their site)
Anybody I have talked to about their tunes for >K04's have to have the files tweaked, or do strange things to make it work right. I don't like the fact that they don't make a file for HFC/cat-delete cars either. I'm no a hippie, but I think it should be optional. My coworker's Jetta has the CEL on w/ a HFC and GIAC, whereas mine does not w/ Unitronic. It's an annoyance, NTM people asking why it's on.

I don't want to bash on GIAC at all, they have some great tunes. A lot of our customers are very happy with the tune/s as well. Nobody can expect them to have all the files on hand for any turbo. I would expect them to have a handful of basic files to start from for the popular cars though.

It's my personal preference not to use them. I'd be more than happy to do some tweaking with their files in a controlled environment. Unfortunately we don't have a dyno or enough demand for it.

There's plenty of tuning companies out there, my choice is obviously different than others.

I was suggesting an option. GIAC came up because the owner of the car in question isn't too far from my location.