Considering a B6 S4, or an E46 M3

[xxForgedxx]

I'm sure this has been reviewed time and time again however I am considering a B6 S4 or an E46 M3. I am a fan of the S4's attributes such as AWD (I live in a state where it snows) 4 doors and a V8 (power on demand) however I also appreciate a beg to hammer on me S54 powerplant, aggressive looks and an overall more reliable car in the M3. It seems that Audi is a very unpredictable high maintenance car which makes me reluctant to buy one, the 13-14mpg city people claim to get consistently out of a car that is just a hair under a 14 second 1/4 car even being AWD is a major turn off. I could understand 17mpg but 13-14 is outrageous, trucks get that. Thought I'd share...

[mcster]

Sounds like you want the M3. Go for it .. except in snow.

[ItzDarrellS4]

[PenguiN]

I must say my car has been in the shop MANY times, from HUGE repairs that cost $13,000 (replaced cam tensioner, cylinder head, in the shop for 2 weeks), to stupid bugs that keep happening (rear tag light bulb has been replaced 8 times in 1 year), to the fact that RIGHT NOW it's in the shop for a wobbly shift knob when I accelerate, no A/C (needs a brand new compressor that is going to cost $3,500 to replace, flush and recharge) tag light bulb (how rare), windshield wiper motor (windshield wipers move to the middle and don't go back to their position), and a ticking noise that comes from the engine that I have no idea what it is and neither does the dealer. The funniest thing is, I dont even drive my car that hard and I have all these problems. I must say I probably wont buy another Audi.

My opinion, as far as reliability the S4 gets a big "0" but the M3 has been completely problem less for the few guys around me that have them. My advice get the car that is not only faster, it handles better, funner to drive, the only thing you are giving up is AWD, oh by the way far more tunable than the boring S4 with the same old DPs and exhaust. I also think it looks better. If I could go back I would have gotten the M3 FOR SURE!

[PenguiN]

too bad that car out handles the RS4 and S4... so I think quattro will only help in the snow.

[mcster]

too bad that car out handles the RS4 and S4... so I think quattro will only help in the snow.

I believe in the Top Gear comparison the M3 loses ..

[charliemike]

I've been in both and the E46 M3 is a go-kart in comparison ... Probably a great car to drive fast but I'd get so tired of it day-to-day.

[PenguiN]

I believe in the Top Gear comparison the M3 loses ..

I believe that is the only place that the S4 Miraculously wins... They're track is really weird and compliments AWD cars a lot! especially since it is short with no straights...

[mcster]

I believe that is the only place that the S4 Miraculously wins... They're track is really weird and compliments AWD cars a lot! especially since it is short with no straights...

Sorry you've had such a bad experience .. I have had no problems with mine. Did you buy CPO or at least w/ a warranty?

[EMAXX]

If you go to an Audi board and ask this question, you'll get a ton of people that say the BMW is crap and buy the Audi. When you go to a board like m3forum.net, you'll get everyone saying buy the BMW.

Just go drive both cars back to back and see which one you like better.

Honestly, in that situation, I would go with the BMW. That's just me though.

[xxForgedxx]

Sorry you've had such a bad experience .. I have had no problems with mine. Did you buy CPO or at least w/ a warranty?

Warranty or not, the problems are still there. What happens when the warranty runs out? Do people stop buying them or else they do and get swamped in headaches. He is right though, the Top Gear track compliments low gearing and AWD, maybe that is why the EVO MR FQ400 stuck right on the tail of the Lamborghini Murcielago?

[mcster]

Warranty or not, the problems are still there. What happens when the warranty runs out? Do people stop buying them or else they do and get swamped in headaches. He is right though, the Top Gear track compliments low gearing and AWD, maybe that is why the EVO MR FQ400 stuck right on the tail of the Lamborghini Murcielago?

The problems are still there for him or her. Not there for me and many others?

[Mello]

The E46 M3 is quite a car. My fiancee and I are looking for a convertible to fart around in during the summer as we take the back roads to VT every other weekend and I test drove an M3 vert. Very fun car IMO. Can't go wrong with either car.

[CHECKERED]

I'm sure this has been reviewed time and time again however I am considering a B6 S4 or an E46 M3. I am a fan of the S4's attributes such as AWD (I live in a state where it snows) 4 doors and a V8 (power on demand) however I also appreciate a beg to hammer on me S54 powerplant, aggressive looks and an overall more reliable car in the M3. It seems that Audi is a very unpredictable high maintenance car which makes me reluctant to buy one, the 13-14mpg city people claim to get consistently out of a car that is just a hair under a 14 second 1/4 car even being AWD is a major turn off. I could understand 17mpg but 13-14 is outrageous, trucks get that. Thought I'd share...

I was in the exact same situation, it came down to the same color same mileage same price…everything…and I got the S4…for many reasons…the interior of the S4 is far superior to the BMW, don’t get me wrong bmw’s have nice interiors but the Audi is far better, every single expert opinion will tell you that. Except the once that are on the BMW payroll…big example JD-Power, they rated the BMW with best in class interior but the Audi “average” what a joke…

To reliability, it seems that M3 are more reliable than other bimmers…JD-Power also rated BMW (as a brand) more reliable than average…yet every other source rates them below average. I know 4 people that owned various BMW (no M3), which later they swore to never own a BMW ever again because of the horrible reliability. Sure every car has problems, PenguiN had his share…

To my other point…I like the style of the S4 over the M3 because the M3 is too aggressive and Ricey with lots of bling that looked like it was slapped on by some teenager…M3 = RICE…S4 more grownup almost a sleeper to those that don’t know…

Other factors…AWD…no traction issues… one example that I have…my friend has a built 2004 GTO with 500 crank horsepower (424 to the wheels), lower geared rear end, short shifter…he has 275’s Goodyear eagle F1 tires…who do you think would win 0-60mph a stock S4 or 500hp GTO…the S4 by a car length…why? Traction… he need slicks to take full advantage of his power…M3 is no different.

Mileage…13-14…if you drive like a maniac and only use first and second gear…I get 18.4mpg in city, driving normal, easy on the throttle, no crazy stunts…28.7mpg on the highway cruising at 62mph…the sweet spot.

Hope this helps with your decision

[Kyokio]

m3 ... and a good set of 17in snow tires.

[Overboostin]

Get the e46 m3.

[sammyrusso]

last care i had was e46 m4 ...fantastic...fun...tossable....but i live in LA...and even if u touch a lil water patch it gets scary so u wont be going very fast in winter...

[mcjuicer]

I'd prefer the M3

[alex@4induktion]

b7 s4 yes.....b6 vs e46...takke the beamer hands down.

[jsizzle20]

2 of my friends both own e46 M3's. I have let them both drive my car and for avid bimmer lovers they couldnt take the smile off their faces. One of them is a chick(yes her opinion matters bc she knows as much if not more about cars than I do) she loved driving my car so much that she asked if she could drive it to Atlantic City, a 3hr drive which I didnt mind being in the passenger seat for. And yes before anyone says anything I was supposed to race her but we agreed that we wouldnt be able to be friends after so we didnt. I had the same decision between cars right before I bought my S4. For me it came down to me wanting the 4 doors and AWD rather than something I would be doing donuts in everyday and I def dont regret my decision one bit.

[Mooneywa]

I actually had an E46 330i before the S4 (and a Tahoe, traded both) and the E46 was such a piece of trash. Every month there was some little annoying problem which inevitably cost several hundred dollars. It made creaks and groans and in the end developed a problem with the torque converter and the steptronic transmission that would have cost several thousand (like 5) to fix and I had had it. The Audi has been nearly perfect except for one little fuel pump issue. Two very different cars despite their relatively close performance numbers.

[Lugi20]

Same decision I had to make 1 year ago now. I live in Chicago, and I bought snow tires to put on my stock rims and now have a summer set of rims/tires... after the shitstorm of snowfall we had this past winter, I couldn't be happier with my decision.

[XwalkerX]

check out the thread i made like 4 months ago...

http://audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209993

[Quattroownsyou]

For power get the E46 M3 with a stage 2 or 3 horsepower freaks kit...simply game over.


For 4 doors, awd safety, everyday driving, no mods, and a CPO warranty..go S4.

[tileg]

You are either from Maine living in state college or the other way around. Do you want to be able to drive your car in the slightest bit of snow? Then you gotta get the s4. Sometimes you gotta go with function...as I did.

[b spot]

Here was my response on this when someone asked this before. A couple things I forgot, was for the price you get a newer lower milage S4 than an M3. I have the coilovers now, and combined with the rear sway the handling is very very improved over stock. I've still had almost nothing for problems. All my friends with BMW's are unloading them and said they'll never buy another one. And winter... my god is quattro fun in winter!

_________________

I can give you my unbiased opinion as I did the same comparison a few months ago when I bought my car.

I live in a winter climate too, so AWD was a huge plus. The BMW interior felt very very cheap to me. The shifter and clutch were quite clunky too.

The M3 definitely does have a lot going for it though, more agile, totally different power delivery, sportier looks.

I won't lie, the 1.9% financing through Audi swayed me a lot compared to the 8% at BMW. Really though, what sealed the deal is I took an S4 with 100,000km on it for a test drive and then an M3 with 80,000 on it to see how they held up with age. The S4 felt like a brand new car still. Nice and tight, and felt and looked the same as the one I bought that had 40,000km on it. The BMW rattled, had loose trim pieces and felt like a used car.

For a while I wondered if I made the right choice, but after getting a chip, snub mount, DP's, exhaust, and a rear sway, it really left little advantage to the M3. Now it revs to 7500rpm, sounds like a beast, is more responsive and the sway made a wonderful difference in handling. I can't wait to get my coilovers on! And AWD in the winter is amazing. You will have so much more fun on those crappy snowy days you get in Buffalo.

Can't go wrong with either car though...

[xxForgedxx]

Guys, if the reliability was the same and the predictability was the same I would indeed be picking the S4. It is a perfectly well rounded and appointed car IMO however the gremlins scare me. I won't be buying one in warranty because it will most likely be in about a year, and a B6 S4 because of my budget. It will be a private sale, well maintained and taken care of S but still it is an intimidating car considering problems can make the most amazing car hated by an owner. I am NOT debating which one should I chose based on functionality/performance/appearance but RELIABILITY/Maintenance. Simply that.

[VVG]

too bad that car out handles the RS4 and S4... so I think quattro will only help in the snow.

You will wrong with this statement 99.9% of the time. A car can only handle as well as the driver can drive. Only a pro driver on a dry race track can run an E92 M3 faster than an RS4. Most people, even reasonably skilled drivers, will be able to drive the RS4 harder with much more confidence and control than the M3. Throw in some snow, rain, or even mildly damp pavement and the RS4 will completely dominate. Most people can do things in an RS4 that if they tried in the M3 would have them wrapped around a tree.

People focus so much on just the car and forget about the more important car-driver interface

[AudiOso]

I put over 10k trouble free miles on my first B6 S4 and anticipate doing much more seat time over the years in my current car which is a keeper.

My tech has a 04' S4 that has over 100k on the clock and he has had no major issues with the car.

It really comes down to the question do you beat the snot out of your car, or do you drive it like an adult?

I have a strong feeling that cars which are hammered are the ones that have problems. Cars that are driven hard, but are respected, can survive the test of time.

[vinny.dtw]

s4 > m3, but then again, you are on a Audi forum. But here is my refute to your turn offs about a S4.

MPG really is dependent on the way you drive. You can't expect a semi performance car to give you great gas mileage. And if you are buying an M3 or an S4, MPG is important, but shouldn't be THAT important in your decision. Plus if you heard the 4.2 V8 rumble, in comparison to the E46 sewing machine sound, that 2-3 mpg difference isn't that big of a deal. (just my opinion)

Unpredictable reliability really comes from how the car was maintained. Any car that was not maintained properly, or worked on by monkeys will have a very likely chance of having many premature problems. Letting a car "sit" is by far worse then driving the car daily. So find yourself a clean B6 S4 with a good title, and from an enthusiast where they actually took care of the car would help eliminate this problem immensely.

Hair under 14 second qm can be cured if you mod it. Hell, most drivers out there can't even take the stock s4's fullest potential in its stock form. But then again, if you are buying an S4 / Audi for its QM...you are really buying the wrong car.

Hope my .02 cents help.

[bhvrdr]

So you have one of the hardest decisions that exist. Both are such great cars.

I have an Audi that has 85K miles on it and has had probably 6 grand in warrantied repairs and not even any large problems.

On the other hand, the audi is an absolute pleasure to drive and drive fast as shit all the time. It is a VERY easy car to drive at 9/10 driving. My car at a 13.20 1/4 mile still needs more power. I get bored with it. The quattro is so easy to drive fast it can make a moron driver look like a race car driver.

I also have a BMW being set up as a track car and it unbelievably has 245K miles on it...yes 245,000 miles. I bought it that way because it was cheap due to the miles and I knew i'd be building the motor anyways and guess what?...I've been beating the piss out of it for a month trying to blow the motor and she runs perfectly. It's compression test is like a new motor too.

But speaking of the M3, the car is fun as shit. I have driven them many times and you never stop smiling every time you push them. The near 50/50 distribution, the decrease in weight, etc makes them just a blast to drive. They can also make them a bit scary. In all honesty, I drive an M3 at 9/10ths and it scares the piss out of me. The audi...it can be almost boring now. There's a lot of fun in a car like the M3 that can be a true challenge to take to 10/10ths and is so rewarding when you do so. But, the Audi may not be as precise, not as fun, not as much of a true slicer but it is oh so easy to drive fast and drive fast daily...hourly....minutely.

All up to what you want. Both cars rock.

Just my .02.

cheers! Mike

[xxForgedxx]

I'd really like to make this car my top choice but I feel that I would enjoy it so much less because I will be constantly spooked by a new weird sound even if it where nothing, also scared to death at a CEL because it could be anything knowing Audi... the worst surprises in the world. I wonder if an R32 would be the way to go?

[bhvrdr]

I'd really like to make this car my top choice but I feel that I would enjoy it so much less because I will be constantly spooked by a new weird sound even if it where nothing, also scared to death at a CEL because it could be anything knowing Audi... the worst surprises in the world. I wonder if an R32 would be the way to go?

On the other hand, Audi has one of the most God send diagnostic equipments available on the market... Vag-Com. I am so missing this with BMW. If you ever have a problem with Audi you will be able to pinpoint the problem easily and pick up the parts extremely cheaply. Only problem would be is that if you have to rely on dealerships you're screwed.

cheers! Mike

[xxForgedxx]

On the other hand, Audi has one of the most God send diagnostic equipments available on the market... Vag-Com. I am so missing this with BMW. If you ever have a problem with Audi you will be able to pinpoint the problem easily and pick up the parts extremely cheaply. Only problem would be is that if you have to rely on dealerships you're screwed.

cheers! Mike

Is this something you can buy on your own and do your OWN diagnostics with? THEN find an independant guy to do the work on it? How MUCH is this thing, how MUCH will it save?

[FrankA6]

BMW's are built like shit, and look bad, get what you want, but IMO an S4 is more classy, and have you seen the inside of most BMW's? rofl what crap, a few friends of mine have BMW's and the inside is falling apart, they are without a doubt bottom of the german car list :(

[nimski62]

BMW's are built like shit, and look bad, get what you want, but IMO an S4 is more classy, and have you seen the inside of most BMW's? rofl what crap, a few friends of mine have BMW's and the inside is falling apart, they are without a doubt bottom of the german car list :(

haha dude, chill.. they are NOT at the bottom of the german car list, audi probably is- look at sales figures.. just bc you and I drive an audi we cant be biased like that.. BMW is an awesome machine, and thats that.. yeah, they need to work on their interior.. but in terms of reliablity they TOP audi like NO OTHER.

[xtort44]

Owned 2 b6 s4s and an e46 m3 before them. Both great cars. I just like the DD aspects of the s4. Much more low key. I personally don't like to stand out. Thing I miss the most on the m3 were the width adjustable seats! Why they never did this on the s4 is beyond me. SMG gets a bad wrap but was really fun to drive. s4 has a much nicer interior. I prefer the b6 body to the b7 as well thats why this is my second b6... Flip a coin! haha

[tileg]

Owned 2 b6 s4s and an e46 m3 before them. Both great cars. I just like the DD aspects of the s4. Much more low key. I personally don't like to stand out.

[xtort44]

He's broken the machine! Hahaha classic!

[xxForgedxx]

I would really rather have the car that can allow me to do activities in the city while looking good, or activities in the out doors while not falling on its face because it got stuck on a dirt road. But at the SAME time, without me having to worry wart about something going wrong with the car. It seems as if an R32 would give me less trouble. I wish I could get a warranty and not worry about it but by the time I'm buying a 2004 S4 will be almost 6 years old with 50-60k on it.