Stage 3- Questions?

[Grinster24]

I am thinking about purchasing the GIAC Stage 3- software for a good deal. I am getting the ecu, 5 bar fpr, and Hitachi MAF setup for $550, is that a good price?

I cannot afford to go complete stage 3 yet so I'll wait till next year, this is only temporary. Currently I am just running the stock software with my k04s. I was wondering what kind of power can I expect to see from this software? How much boost will this run? And how big of a difference will I see?

I was wondering if some people running this program could fill me in. It should be installed by the end of the week. Thanks in advance.

[SpoolPastYou]

Arent you selling this car? I'm not a big fan of running ko4's in a stage 2 setup, ive heard to many horror stories and you have to remember your missing A LOT of parts, a lot of piping and a lot of fueling, MAF sensor, TCD, oil feed lines, intercoolers, etc...i would get to that stage 3 soon, my guess is with all those parts missing the ko4s could get damaged pretty easy. but to answer your question yes i think that deal on the software is worth the price..unless you want to sell it to me :o)

[Overboostin]

^^what???

You'll be fine with the k04s and an upgraded fpr. The specialized software will yield some power gains over a plain chip, how much however, idk. Someone else will let you know.

[Tifosi]

The general concern about running K04s on non-Stage 3/K04 based SW (GIAC 3- SW is considered as a tweaked K03-based SW, not K04 SW), is that you may overboost and even with the help of the 5 bar FPR, you are still risking run lean especially at high RPMs. With that said, plenty of people have/are at Stage 3- without issues and IMO, $550 is a pretty good deal. The power gain should be notable as I think AWE and its associates claims the output is raised to ~400hp/crank.

But if it was up to me, I would save the money and go full stage 3 this winter as most vendors will be having their X'mas sale.

[SpoolPastYou]

^^what???

You'll be fine with the k04s and an upgraded fpr. The specialized software will yield some power gains over a plain chip, how much however, idk. Someone else will let you know.

uh no...just on the hardware side of things...running ko4s on stock ko3 feed lines can result in overheating, along with smaller ko3 intercoolers and smaller piping, stock injectors, stock fuel pump..how many more reasons do you need? thats without even going onto software issues like tifosi said, overboosting, running lean etc etc

[RudyH]

uh no...just on the hardware side of things...running ko4s on stock ko3 feed lines can result in overheating, along with smaller ko3 intercoolers and smaller piping, stock injectors, stock fuel pump..how many more reasons do you need? thats without even going onto software issues like tifosi said, overboosting, running lean etc etc

You are guessing and assuming as you said in your first post.

K04s + inlet pipes + GIAC Stage III- + 5.0 FPR is all you need, nothing more nothing less.

Larger intercoolers and down pipes would make the setup run more efficiently, and additional fueling will allow you to run at a much more aggressive mapping.

30,000 kms on Stage 3- and I'm running fine.

If you want to be anal buy a MBC but will likely never use it, but $40 won't hurt. I personaly don't run one.

[AudiTechS4]

uh no...just on the hardware side of things...running ko4s on stock ko3 feed lines can result in overheating, along with smaller ko3 intercoolers and smaller piping, stock injectors, stock fuel pump..how many more reasons do you need? thats without even going onto software issues like tifosi said, overboosting, running lean etc etc

do you need to replaced the ol feed lines when going ko4's? i'm still on stock ko3 iol feed lines

[SpoolPastYou]

You are guessing and assuming as you said in your first post.

K04s + inlet pipes + GIAC Stage III- + 5.0 FPR is all you need, nothing more nothing less.

Larger intercoolers and down pipes would make the setup run more efficiently, and additional fueling will allow you to run at a much more aggressive mapping.

30,000 kms on Stage 3- and I'm running fine.

If you want to be anal buy a MBC but will likely never use it, but $40 won't hurt. I personaly don't run one.

ok look at your list...this kid has 1 of those things on that list...and just for the record stage 3 software will advance fuel and boost that a stock pump or stock intercoolers cant hold...and i didnt say anything about running downpipes but i would never run a stage 3 without intercoolers, and upgraded fuel pump. and we havent even touched on injectors, stage 3 software can outflow stock injectors or def run your car lean..lean=blow up...it has nuthing to do with being "anal" when taking these pre-cautions id like to call it not being cheap..you dont run intercoolers your gunna blow your ko4s seen it happen twice i dont care wat any1 sais..same goes with not running the necessary fuel mods...if your gunna stage 3 your car dont rig it just so you can get it running, its all or nothing, and if does happen to run for a bit id put any money your stage3 doesnt run like mine...cheers

[Reaxion]

ok look at your list...this kid has 1 of those things on that list...and just for the record stage 3 software will advance fuel and boost that a stock pump or stock intercoolers cant hold...and i didnt say anything about running downpipes but i would never run a stage 3 without intercoolers, and upgraded fuel pump. and we havent even touched on injectors, stage 3 software can outflow stock injectors or def run your car lean..lean=blow up...it has nuthing to do with being "anal" when taking these pre-cautions id like to call it not being cheap..you dont run intercoolers your gunna blow your ko4s seen it happen twice i dont care wat any1 sais..same goes with not running the necessary fuel mods...if your gunna stage 3 your car dont rig it just so you can get it running, its all or nothing, and if does happen to run for a bit id put any money your stage3 doesnt run like mine...cheers

Hence, "Stage 3-" software that's stated in his original post.

It would appear his intention is to not run a full stage 3 program until he has proper fueling.....but who would?

[2ndEngineS4]

KO4's, Apr Stage I chip w/downpipe program. 16 psi, 91/100 octane programs everything else completely stock for 2 years (15,000 miles) and not one single problem.

[Overboostin]

uh no...just on the hardware side of things...running ko4s on stock ko3 feed lines can result in overheating, along with smaller ko3 intercoolers and smaller piping, stock injectors, stock fuel pump..how many more reasons do you need? thats without even going onto software issues like tifosi said, overboosting, running lean etc etc

feed lines? there are no specific k04 oil or coolant lines. smaller piping? what charged pipes need to be made bigger for k04s? stock injectors? He's not getting fueling dude, thats why he said stage 3-. Stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.

[Das General]

I ran K04's on a GIAC K03 tune while on the stock injectors/fpr. No biggie. I made 310whp too.

[SpoolPastYou]

feed lines? there are no specific k04 oil or coolant lines. smaller piping? what charged pipes need to be made bigger for k04s? stock injectors? He's not getting fueling dude, thats why he said stage 3-. Stop trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.

wow this is funny, who the hell are you to talk you dont even have a stage 3 s4, and yes my kit came with a larger oil feed line and rs4 piping is larger then ko3 piping..feed lines are measured in diameter (3an, 4an, etc) whatever, your k03 lines feed ko3 turbos smaller then ko4's hence larger turbo larger diameter oil line to cool the turbo..any1 would know this whos done a bigger turbo swap...i could go on but clearly the only one who doesnt know what theyre talking about is you, your a perfect example of what i said before, cheap drivers who will cut any corners to get their car to run as a "stage 3" and ill laugh when your car runs like shit and blows up...but if you really feel that emotional about it why dont you bring your stage3 to the meet this weekend and race me...o wait you dont have a stage 3

[Reaxion]

wow this is funny, who the hell are you to talk you dont even have a stage 3 s4, and yes my kit came with a larger oil feed line and rs4 piping is larger then ko3 piping..feed lines are measured in diameter (3an, 4an, etc) whatever, your k03 lines feed ko3 turbos smaller then ko4's hence larger turbo larger diameter oil line to cool the turbo..any1 would know this whos done a bigger turbo swap...i could go on but clearly the only one who doesnt know what theyre talking about is you, your a perfect example of what i said before, cheap drivers who will cut any corners to get their car to run as a "stage 3" and ill laugh when your car runs like shit and blows up...but if you really feel that emotional about it why dont you bring your stage3 to the meet this weekend and race me...o wait you dont have a stage 3

Re-read your post and you tell me if you don't sound like your 12.

Just because you're not stage 3 doesn't mean you don't know what your talking about. Unlike you, not everyone can buy their car pre-equipped with stage 3 .

You shouldn't be one to bash on someone's financial situation either. That's pretty shallow and you should take into consideration people's priorities in life.

This is a professional forum(for the most part) where people try to help one another. Let's keep it that way and not turn it into "Who's got the bigger d***" contest.

[Das General]

I also reused my old K03 lines. They were fine.

[Jayco88]

wow this is funny, who the hell are you to talk you dont even have a stage 3 s4, and yes my kit came with a larger oil feed line and rs4 piping is larger then ko3 piping..feed lines are measured in diameter (3an, 4an, etc) whatever, your k03 lines feed ko3 turbos smaller then ko4's hence larger turbo larger diameter oil line to cool the turbo..any1 would know this whos done a bigger turbo swap...i could go on but clearly the only one who doesnt know what theyre talking about is you, your a perfect example of what i said before, cheap drivers who will cut any corners to get their car to run as a "stage 3" and ill laugh when your car runs like shit and blows up...but if you really feel that emotional about it why dont you bring your stage3 to the meet this weekend and race me...o wait you dont have a stage 3

harsh

[RudyH]

wow this is funny, who the hell are you to talk you dont even have a stage 3 s4, and yes my kit came with a larger oil feed line and rs4 piping is larger then ko3 piping..feed lines are measured in diameter (3an, 4an, etc) whatever, your k03 lines feed ko3 turbos smaller then ko4's hence larger turbo larger diameter oil line to cool the turbo..any1 would know this whos done a bigger turbo swap...i could go on but clearly the only one who doesnt know what theyre talking about is you, your a perfect example of what i said before, cheap drivers who will cut any corners to get their car to run as a "stage 3" and ill laugh when your car runs like shit and blows up...but if you really feel that emotional about it why dont you bring your stage3 to the meet this weekend and race me...o wait you dont have a stage 3

Thats a pretty obnoxious post. It's great you own a Stage 3 kit...so you are now the ol powerful tech guru bow down all minions bow down!

I won't sink to your level much farther, but I will also include in my listing a gasket / fastener kit that does not include K03 feed lines, but does include a fastener for it. EVERY SINGLE K04 DISTRIBUTOR RECOMMENDS IT - even though it goes against SpoolPastYou superior knowledge.

[Grinster24]

Well it seems there is disagreement. As for the person who said I only had one thing on the list of items to run fine on Stage 3- SW. I have the k04s, inlet pipes, 5 bar fpr, and hitachi maf conversion. I will be doing a set of downpipes a friend is selling me dirt cheap in probably two weeks.

I know that the car will be safe, and injectors will be running 100%duty up top. But as I stated before this just a safeguard for my turbos until I can save up for fueling and intercoolers.

The point of the post was to see what people running this software had for results. Both efficiency, problems, and power #s. Thanks for those that helped.

[updaboost]

I ran stage 3- for 6 months but on REVO homebrew,,noticed dangerous boost spikes and leaning out..put in a MBC set at 17-18 psi and the car dynoed ~ 290whp and ran fine..

[Grinster24]

Great thanks for the info. The software's boost curve is supposed to jump to 18-19psi then taper to around 17 psi. But I'm told this is very reliable software for running stock injectors... I'll have to have everything checked once it's installed.

[Daft]

wow this is funny, who the hell are you to talk you dont even have a stage 3 s4, and yes my kit came with a larger oil feed line and rs4 piping is larger then ko3 piping..feed lines are measured in diameter (3an, 4an, etc) whatever, your k03 lines feed ko3 turbos smaller then ko4's hence larger turbo larger diameter oil line to cool the turbo..any1 would know this whos done a bigger turbo swap...i could go on but clearly the only one who doesnt know what theyre talking about is you, your a perfect example of what i said before, cheap drivers who will cut any corners to get their car to run as a "stage 3" and ill laugh when your car runs like shit and blows up...but if you really feel that emotional about it why dont you bring your stage3 to the meet this weekend and race me...o wait you dont have a stage 3

First off, there's no need for this kind of post. It's completely unnecessary.

Second, there are no companies that include "K04" specific oil feed lines.

The RS4 was the car that these K04s came from. It had slightly different oil feed lines but, this was due to the curve/length. You will also notice this on automatic tranny S4/A6/allroad cars because of the extra items that it must travel past on the driver side.

S4/A6/allroad part numbers: 078 145 777B (driver side, manual tranny car)
078 145 778B (pass side, manual tranny car)
078 145 777C (driver side, auto tranny car)


RS4 part numbers: 078 145 777E (driver side)
078 145 778E (pass side)

You could buy the RS4 oil lines but, frankly, there is not enough difference to make it a requirement. When replacing the turbos, it would be ideal to clear the stock ones out and make sure they are clean before re-using them.

Third, K04s require a set of inlets to fit onto the car. You cannot bolt K04s on without them since the inlets on the turbos are larger and the K03 pipes will not mate up. Therefore anyone who has K04s installed will have inlets too.

Finally, the Stage 3- file that GIAC sells is directly made for people who have a stage 1 chip, K04s and inlets but need software to make them run safely. The stock injectors are maxed out but, the 5.0bar FPR is used to dump much more fuel for every millisecond that those injectors run. This is how they get around installing new injectors. They also run boost in the high teens as to run on the safe side with the fueling and intercooling that is going to be there.

A true Stage 3 fueling system is going to make a world of change but, there is still nothing wrong with a Stage 3- program.

[Grinster24]

Thanks for the info.

[Number54]

I'll be the first one to clearly answer your first question: yes!

$550 is a great price. When I bought my Stage 3- setup, just the GIAC 3- software was around $700. Then, like you said, there's the FPR. I have a 2001.5 so no MAF conversion for me.

As for the guy talking about needing larger oil feed lines, I don't *think* that's true. Just listen to Daft. Check your existing ones, make sure they're not clogged and in good condition. If so re-use them. That's what STaSIS told me when they did my 3- setup. But I'm not sure if pre-2001.5s have different lines.

As for being a "risky" setup with boost spikes etc., again, I don't think so. I never saw anything like that, and I track my car.

But one thing, buy intercoolers. RS4 ones are good enough, especially if you're not thrashing your car.

As for your second question, I don't know what power it makes. I seem to recall STaSIS quoting me less than 400hp, maybe around 380?

Third question: Boost should peg right at 16 PSI. Mine does that consistently. Never overboosts, no spikes.

Fourth question: You will definitely feel the car pull harder in higher RPMs. You *will* feel a bit more laggy at low RPMs. There were some people saying you shouldn't feel the difference between K03 and K04 lag. Nonsense I tell ya! You'll feel it. It isn't huge or anything though, and totally worth it.