Dyno Comparisons.

[Auditude2.0T]

Some Research i did.

A Stock B6/B7 S4 puts down about 220AWHP/210AWTQ
A B6/B7 S4 with Downpipes, Catback Exhaust, K&N Filter puts down an average of 240AWHP 230AWTQ Lowest being 234AWHP/232AWTQ highest being 283AWHP/280AWTQ.

A Stock B7 RS4 puts down an average 335AWHP/292AWTQ highest being 340AWHP/305AWTQ lowest being 286AWHP/267AWTQ.
No dynos on upgraded RS4's available.

A Stock B7 2.0T Quattro puts an average of 165AWHP/152AWTQ. highest reading being 173AWHP/161AWTQ lowest being 147AWHP/149AWTQ.

A Modded A4 2.0T (Chip/Exhaust/CAI/FSI Pump/Test Pipe/Intercooler) puts down an average of 240AWHP/270AWTQ highest being 260AWHP/292AWTQ lowest being 227AWHP/260AWTQ.

A Modded A4 2.0T Quattro with all mods above plus a K04 puts down an Average of 290AWHP/309AWTQ. Highest Number i have ever seen was 332AWHP/345AWTQ on the APR S3 Turbo Kit. Haven't personally seen any low numbers with this setup.

These are of course all different dynos and different days (weather being a factor)

Here are some links of the info i got.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229429
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=dyno
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...highlight=dyno
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature.../photo_03.html

I have more links but you get the idea of where i got my info from. Mostly from Audizine, Audiworld, Automobile Mag and Youtube.



Just for reference a Stock Evolution 10 FQ300 comes with 300HP to the crank and 232AWHP/211AQTQ according to No Limit Motorsports. Curb weight of the Evolution 10 is 3432lbs about 50lbs +- of a A4 2.0T Quattro 6 Speed.

[masteroc]

Interesting read. It looks as if a heavily modded 2.0T can put down a good amount of power (approaching RS4 territory).

[Auditude2.0T]

The only difference is the RS4's powerband is more linear, has better gearing and has 60/40 Quattro Rear Bias. Only the B7 S4 06+ 6MT and B7 RS4 had the 60/40 Quattro.

[speedydragon]

Wow those are pretty embarrassing numbers for the S4.

[tre]

Wow those are pretty embarrassing numbers for the S4.

The S4 was on a Dyno Dynamics dyno - they are known to read VERY low. He also does not mention the weather - the B6/B7 S4 is very sensitive to hot weather. The V8 power is noticeably better on a cool day (according to the butt dyno). Don't be fooled by this number, the car has much more grunt then this dyno pull would suggest. Of course a Stage 3 B5 S4 makes the modded B6 S4 seem as if it is standing still. The power of the stage 3 B5 is amazing.

[michpan]

260AWHP with a stage 1 setup? You mean 310HP crank? LOL! Impossible, the K03 turbo just can't provide such power! That's K04 (new S3) territory! Different dynometers can produce different results, not to mention that a dyno can be adjusted to give low or high numbers if its controller wishes to!


Michael

[Auditude2.0T]

Kristokes put 260WHP.

[extremesport3]

Pete, there is no way a K03 is putting 260 to the wheels. My car is 275 to the wheels and i have the K04. Also i believe the S4 numbers you mention are a little low. I was at a dyno day with anothe S4 and he put 300 to the wheels and about 270's wtq if i remember correctly. Not to say that our cars are capable of more but I have gone against S4's in the past and have been able to take them. From my experiences and from what i have read your setup should get about 235hp at the wheels and about 270's wtq. maybe 280's. Also no matter what, all cars are different and all dynos are different. There is no standard hp rating for mods on any one car. All mods affect cars differently. Interested to see if my assumption was correct. When on monday are you going? bring a video cam i want to see it.

[extremesport3]

Pete, one other thing. I was speaking with APR the other day as well as on their site. The numbers you said the K04 produces are crank numbers. According to their latest dyno logs and personel. I am not sure who told you a K04 would produce that at the wheels but they were for sure lying. I have scene on dyno sheets of the APR S3 kit on the A4 and it claimed just slightly over 300hp at the wheels and 330's wtq. I will let you know more as i am waiting for my new kit to be ready.

[tre]

I will let you know more as i am waiting for my new kit to be ready.

nice!

[Sanjman]

260AWHP with a stage 1 setup? You mean 310HP crank? LOL! Impossible, the K03 turbo just can't provide such power! That's K04 (new S3) territory! Different dynometers can produce different results, not to mention that a dyno can be adjusted to give low or high numbers if its controller wishes to!


Michael

butt dyno expresses throughout a powerband because your ass is sitting in it from stop to go... Pete is just discussing PEAK HP which means for the most means squat or at least what kind of horseys are 2.0T are capable of. I think most of us understand why an RS4 still beats a SUPER heavily modded 2.0T.

[airbornerifleman]

very informative

[bhvrdr]

Those are terrible comparisons. The dyno dynamics is such a low reading dyno it doesnt compare. There are plenty of dyno tuners out there who have each of these cars on their SAME dyno. Heck, i've gotten as high as 323whp on my B6 S4 on a Mustang and as low as 295whp on a dynojet just to give an example of dyn and temperature variables that take place.

In general if we were assuming the same dyno figure...

B6/B7 S4: 260whp
B7 RS4: 325whp
B7 A4: 165whp
B7 A4 chipped 205whp
B7 A4 with pump, exhaust and stock turbo: 225whp
B7 with pump and K04: 250whp

The numbers you got for the audi K04 kit were rediculous numbers from a dyno that was using SAE corrections at a crazy altitude which on a turbo car produced crazy high numbers. The ones from VW vortex or those from GTI cars are FWD so you have to subtract 10% or more to see what that would be like on our quattro cars.

One thing to look at to verify this is the trap speeds and 1/4 mile times.

For the RS4 you will see 105-108mph trap speeds

For the S4 you will see 99-103mph trap speeds

For the A4 chipped (and exhaust which does not much without the pump): 95-98mph

For the A4 chipped and pumped maybe 98-100mph trap speeds theoretically

For the K04 maybe 101mph trap speeds (although never seen yet to date on a quattro car more than 98mph...the FWD ones will always have higher trap speeds)

Those traps would be in line with what would be expected for dynos.

In essence you could just estimate 22% loss from what we generally figure each car will make as far as chp.

B6/B7 S4: 340hp
B7 RS4: 420hp
chipped B7 A4: 250chp
Chipped and pumped B7 A4: 270chp
K04 B7 A4: 310chp

cheers! Mike

[bhvrdr]

Here's some more realistic comparisons on the SAME dyno courtessy of AWE-TUning

Stock A4 versus chipped A4 on their dyno...



Stock S4 versus exhaust S4...



Dyno on the same AWE dyno (the printout looks different but its the same dyno) of a FWD GTI with chip versus FWD GTI with K04 kit.

MAKE SURE TO SUBTRACT 10% from these WHP numbers to compare to the above quattro cars...

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

Kristokes put 260WHP.

Revo FTW

[Geoffafa]

Revo FTW

lol APR FTMFW

[rnp614]

problem is just looking at these dynos doesnt tell you anything about the weight differences seen across the board. Who wants to do power/lb? haha

[lnferno]

Mike -- you must have missed the thread where I posted the uncorrected #s vs a 335 and STI all on the same dyno.

[bhvrdr]

Mike -- you must have missed the thread where I posted the uncorrected #s vs a 335 and STI all on the same dyno.

I did. Link me bud. Wasnt trying to trash on your numbers either. On the contrary. Your numbers would still be awesome at 260whp at sea level. I was just pointing out that I wouldnt expect to get the same ones on every person's dyno. For me, that would have been picking up 80whp over and above a tuned up k03. The K04 kit shouldnt be a 370chp kit. cheers! Mike

[swoardrider]

These dyno numbers don't mean much when comparing different cars. It's all about the power to weight ratio. That number is much more relative.

BTW a stock A4 2.0T Quattro does not have a curb weight in the 3400's. We pigs are closer to the 3700 lbs range. The RS4 really needs Jenny Craig as it pushes 4000lbs.

[b6onboost]

Very well put, both in text and the provided charts.

Comparing dynos is tough. Too many people compare apples to oranges and the result is a claim of 300+ crank hp from a K03 A4. Just not happening. Its also very easy to compare an optimal A4 dyno vs a less optimal (insert other car here) dyno...and claim the A4 is faster.

Those are terrible comparisons. The dyno dynamics is such a low reading dyno it doesnt compare. There are plenty of dyno tuners out there who have each of these cars on their SAME dyno. Heck, i've gotten as high as 323whp on my B6 S4 on a Mustang and as low as 295whp on a dynojet just to give an example of dyn and temperature variables that take place.

In general if we were assuming the same dyno figure...

B6/B7 S4: 260whp
B7 RS4: 325whp
B7 A4: 165whp
B7 A4 chipped 205whp
B7 A4 with pump, exhaust and stock turbo: 225whp
B7 with pump and K04: 250whp

B6/B7 S4: 340hp
B7 RS4: 420hp
chipped B7 A4: 250chp
Chipped and pumped B7 A4: 270chp
K04 B7 A4: 310chp

cheers! Mike

[Tgr_Clw]

Yo Auditude2.0T...

When are you going to post your dyno sheet???

[lnferno]

The K04 kit shouldnt be a 370chp kit.

Who claimed it was a 370 chp kit?

[Slo.Mo.Shun.]

These dyno numbers don't mean much when comparing different cars. It's all about the power to weight ratio. That number is much more relative.

BTW a stock A4 2.0T Quattro does not have a curb weight in the 3400's. We pigs are closer to the 3700 lbs range. The RS4 really needs Jenny Craig as it pushes 4000lbs.

I have seen FWD A4s at 3300 and change. However quattro is another story.

[eastwick897]

Interesting numbers. Actually kinda surprised me...In a good way :)

[Glassnpowder98]

Damn, brought this thread back from the dead. I actually thought Auditude2.0T had gotten some numbers finally! Any update on when that's going to happen?

[rnp614]

What would a test pipe + chipped car put down?

[johnnybravo!]

What would a test pipe + chipped car put down?

On 93 octane..i've read 210-215whp ..

[a4dc89]

Yo Auditude2.0T...

When are you going to post your dyno sheet???

lol ill second that! I would rather see a good dyno instead of the 1/4 mile slips

[Austin@GIAC]

lol ill second that! I would rather see a good dyno instead of the 1/4 mile slips

I would tend to disagree. There are so many different dyno types and calibrations that, a dyno is basically only valid if it has a proper baseline to measure the delta between stock and modified. Even then, the delta can vary between load based and inertia dynos. Some dynos use proper fans for cooling radiators and intercoolers, other don't use any at all.....

With quarter mile times, save for extreme conditions such as racing in the desert, or at tracks at high elevation, you can see patterns in the trap speeds. Sure the E.T. might be different but, that is more pertinent to the driver.