Upgrading my audio system

[eviltech]

Wassup fellas? Im planning on upgrading my system. I have the non Bose system in my Audi. I've been looking under the driver, passenger side and around the battery.... how did you guys run your amp power cable to the battery...?

Head Unit: Don't know yet.... whats a good & cheap dvd/nav unit?

Front: Infinity Kappa42.7i
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...108427I&tp=105

Rear: Infinity Kappa 62.7i
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...7I&tp=95&avf=N

Amp: Infinity Reference 475a
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...08R475A&tp=115

Sub: MTX Thunder Square TS5512D
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...6T5512D&tp=112

Sub Amp: MTX JackHammer JH600
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Produ...36JH600&tp=115

[Kyle H]

I ran my power cable through the hood release grommet and sealed it up with silicon, then down the drivers side under the door molding, and up through the rear seat bolsters. Another option it to put it through the ECU box and get it to the trunk the same way.

Stay away from MTX, Infinity is nice but you can get better for the price.

Check out the other for some quality brands and suggestions on setups.

Here is my recommendation for a setup that I gave to a guy on another forum... the thread is locked so I can't just quote it over here.

[itsbigj05]

It was super easy for me to run 4 awg through the ecu box. Are you looking for a single din flipout dvd/nav screen or a double din? I wanted to get one as well, but I saw the prices and ran the other way as fast as I could.

[A4 Effort]

I ran mine down thru the cabin filter casing, past the climate control fan, and down by the glovebox. Unorthodox, but it worked

[eviltech]

Kyle H: Did you drill a hole or you just squeezed it through? I heard that running the cable through the ECU is very bad. You got any pics? I might get this comp sub instead, since quite a few people are telling me MTX sucks.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?o=v&showAll=N&g=520&i=500SWR1242&tp=111"]http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?o=v&showAll=N&g=520&i=500SWR1242&tp=111"]http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?o=v&showAll=N&g=520&i=500SWR1242&tp=111

mm how do you make link into a word.. im a nub at this.

itsbigj05: Looking for double dins, maybe this?
http://www.dualav.com/indashvideo/xdvd8290.html

[JaVa]

ill tell you again stay away from mtx. i ran my power cable thru a unused grommet just under the brake booster. im a tip so i think it was where the clutch linkage would have run maybe?

[djwimbo]

Kyle H: Did you drill a hole or you just squeezed it through? I heard that running the cable through the ECU is very bad. You got any pics? I might get this comp sub instead, since quite a few people are telling me MTX sucks.

MTX doesn't suck, there are just better options for the price and will last longer.

Props on the Infinity stuff. I love their components, and I've used their coaxials for years. Always a good buy

Running the power wire through the ECU box IS a bad idea. EMI or Electro Magnetic Interference or Electro Magnetic induction is what you want to avoid. When you pass amps and volts through a wire you induce voltage in the other wires next to the power cable. Running this near the ECU can FUBAR the ECU or give it false readings. This is the same reason why you don't want to run the power wire near sensors too.

Personally, I ran my power wire through the grommet by the left front wheel speed sensor (pull the plastic cover back by the tie rod). This means I ran the power wire near sensor wiring, BUT the WSS wiring is shielded and less important to me than engine sensors.

[onemoremile]

I started selling MTX at 15 (18 years ago) and have yet to see one of their amps fail that wasn't wired incorrectly.

They are robust as hell. They don't overheat. They each come with a test sheet and tend to make a lot more power than advertised. The Thunder 4244(?) that has been under the passenger seat in my wife's outback for the last 7 years has performed flawlessly even with half empty mountain dew cans and baby bottles rolling around under there. It is even sticky on top. I've cleaned the damn thing off half a dozen times now.

Their subs aren't that hot for the money though. Those Infinity speakers aren't either. The only decent Infinity speakers are the Perfect series. If you want the best value then go with Pioneer. Some folks look down on them but they sound great, are quite cheap, and built like tanks - especially the subs.

FWIW, I've installed a few million bucks worth of car audio equipment over the years. Buy on value - never on price.

[hoganalley]

If you want the best value then go with Pioneer. Some folks look down on them but they sound great, are quite cheap, and built like tanks - especially the subs.

I can vouch for that! When I put my system in I bought Angstrom speakers on sale....didn't even know they made car audio! They lasted about 4 months and the speaker cone(plastic) in the rear would bottom out anytime the bass was too heavy. Since my car is Brilliant Yellow, I always wanted the Pioneer Rev speakers due to the fact they're yellow cones, but also because they're kevlar. Put them in about 3 months ago and they're great! I got 2 6-1/2" rears, 2 1" tweeters and 2 5-1/4" doors for $180 US. I think they have good sound reproduction and they sound nice and crisp....I'm happy!

[firstars]

heres my recommendation. I just did an upgrade on my 99 non bose.

Infinity Kappa 50.7cs (basically same as this years 50.9cs system)- You can get these off amazon.com for something like 140 bucks and these will make the biggest difference in your system. To fit them you have no make some sort of adapter. I ended up dremeling around the door and using the grilles that came with the speakers to make mounts. They sound great. Get these rather than a 2 way. You would be wasting the tweeter location with no tweeter!

Infinity Kappa 62.7i - I got these for the rears and purchased 6.5 inch adapters from crutchfield and they fit wonderfully.

Alpine MRP-300 - This amp fits the bill for the speakers and sounds crystal clear. I think alpine makes better amps than infinity.

For bass I went with an infinity basslink - I ended up having the gain on the alpine amp about 10% and the basslink all the way up. Sounds clear and goes loud but Im thinking im using about 10% of the potential for my speakers. Thinking of upgrading soon although the basslink is light and impressed me for its size.

[onemoremile]

NEVER turn any gain control all the way up. If it goes to ten you stay at 8 or below. Turn it all the way up and the signal to noise ratio goes to hell and the chances of clipping the amp or the input signal go through the roof.

[djwimbo]

NEVER turn any gain control all the way up. If it goes to ten you stay at 8 or below. Turn it all the way up and the signal to noise ratio goes to hell and the chances of clipping the amp or the input signal go through the roof.

Same goes for Bass Boost. If you really needed the bass boost, in reality you should have just bought a bigger amp.

Bass Boost = Distortion boost.

[eviltech]

Kyle H: thanks man, Im not going to order from Crutchfield. Woofersetc is way cheaper and they got good ratings.

Onemoremile: If I'm running 2 amps do I need 2 capacitors? What kind of power distribution i should get?

Ok this is what I came up with.

Font: 42.9i - Infinity 4" 2-Way Kappa Coaxial Speakers
Rear: 62.9i - Infinity 6.5" 2-Way Kappa Coaxial Speakers
Amp: 475a - Infinity 4 Channel Full-Range Amplifier
Sub: SWR-1242D - Alpine 12" Type R 1500W Dual 4 Ohm Subwoofer
Amp: MRP-M500 - Alpine Mono 500W subwoofer amplifier

All that for $700. I can't decide what HU to get. Either a JVC KW-XG700 or a Kenwood Excelon DDX812

[bass_lover1]

Running the power wire through the ECU box IS a bad idea. EMI or Electro Magnetic Interference or Electro Magnetic induction is what you want to avoid. When you pass amps and volts through a wire you induce voltage in the other wires next to the power cable. Running this near the ECU can FUBAR the ECU or give it false readings. This is the same reason why you don't want to run the power wire near sensors too.

It is possible for this to be a concern, but NOT in the car audio world. The current draw required to create that type of force for it to actually negatively affect things around it, is probably not going to happen. It's the same thing with running power wire next to signal cables, nothing is going to happen, I promise you.



Back to the OP. Go with what your budget allows. Also, I strongly suggest going to a local shop and at least playing around with things to get the feel of whats out there. Try to listen to as many setups as you can to figure out what you want to accomplish with your stereo. It's really hard for anyone to tell you how well something is going to sound, because we all hear differently and have different tastes. Try to find something that sounds good to you, and still is within your budget.

Just be careful, if you let it, the audio bug is just as dangerous to your wallet as the mod bug...trust me, I know all too well

[djwimbo]

Onemoremile: If I'm running 2 amps do I need 2 capacitors? What kind of power distribution i should get?

You don't need to use capacitors. Any formal training on car audio will tell you that it's pointless. Capacitors only store "static" electricity, they don't store amperage. Amperage (and voltage) is what the amplifier needs to produce power. Batcaps are different. You can't jumpstart a car(supply amperage) from a capacitor, like you can from a batcap.
Onemoremile will tell you they're pointless as well. He's more oldschool about the audio stuff than I am, but that's b/c he was sponsored for it before I was born(almost).

Take a look at all the Uber high end audio companies, they don't make or sell capacitors. This is probably b/c they don't lie to their customers. Quick and easy examples are MTX/Xtant & Alpine. Though those aren't the really high end stuff, they're a lot better than the Rockford Fosgate and Lightning Audio group. Which BTW that group sells capacitors.

[itsbigj05]

Running the power wire through the ECU box IS a bad idea. EMI or Electro Magnetic Interference or Electro Magnetic induction is what you want to avoid. When you pass amps and volts through a wire you induce voltage in the other wires next to the power cable. Running this near the ECU can FUBAR the ECU or give it false readings. This is the same reason why you don't want to run the power wire near sensors too.

I've had no problems with my ecu yet after almost a year.

[djwimbo]

I've had no problems with my ecu yet after almost a year.

I said it was a bad idea, I didn't promise failure.

You can find a short circuit pulling no more than 10-15amps with a compass. A stereo system pulling 40amps can cause issues. I will not say that it will, I said it can.

[onemoremile]

Onemoremile: If I'm running 2 amps do I need 2 capacitors? What kind of power distribution i should get?

Amps have capacitors in them. Electrical engineers (the designers of the amps) put them their to match the power potential of the amp. They are already overbuilt using what engineers like to call the "factor of safety". This is often a factor of 2 or 3 or more which means an amp capable of total peak output of 500 watts will often have capacitance capable of 1000-2000 watts. Going larger is not only pointless and expensive it is potentially dangerous. I'm continually amazed that people drop a wad of cash on a nice amp - giving credit to the designer for all their masterful work - and then second guess the most simple part of the amplifier design which is power supply. Would you buy a performance car, fit it with a high performance fuel pump, and then leave everything else stock? Seems ridiculous, doesn't it?

Get a 5 or 6 channel amp and make life much easier. Saves you money and space dealing with distribution blocks, extra wiring, etc..

on woofersetc go to amps then select multichannel amps and sort by lower price first. No need to spend more the $300 on a nice amp here. 50 for the mains and 200-300 for the sub is plenty if you look for high efficiency speakers. A difference of 3dB @1w/m means you'll need twice or half the power for the same output. High efficiency is much better with low power than low efficiency with high power. The reasons are twofold - power required and heat management. Go with high efficiency and everything runs cooler and cleaner - heat is the enemy of electronics.

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...roduct_ID=5653
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...roduct_ID=6634

[onemoremile]

Here is how you do an amazing system on a budget. It is also how some IASCA winning systems have been done regardless of budget.

Get a 6 channel a/d/s powerplate amp from ebay. Get a high efficiency component set and subwoofer. Mount the components as rigidly as possible and install and appropriate subwoofer enclosure. Run the mids and tweeter on individual channels and bridge the last two for the sub (8 channel amps with dual vc subs are even better). Run the front RCA outputs of the deck to the amp. If it has sub outputs with independent level control then use them too. Run the rear amplified channels from the head unit to the rear speakers. The rears are just fill and unless they are damaged they are more than up to the task. If they are as good or better than the fronts the image will be pulled back and at least part of your hard work goes down the drain.


Way back in the day I had a demo install in the shop that had pathetic quality components. We're talking Sparkomatic, Realistic, and Pyramid level stuff here. It was installed in machined speaker rings with rigid airtight door enclosures and a simple but very effective sub enclosure made with dynaboard (thin mdf with dynamat sandwiched between). Right next to it was another install with ultra high end equipment just screwed into stock doors and a cheap prefab carpeted sub enclosure. All the branding was hidden. 99 out of 100 people said the cheap crap sounded better. This demo nicely illustrated the difference between what you get from a catalog and what you get from a professional. What you buy is 1/3 of the result, how you install it is 1/3, and tuning is the other 1/3.

[djwimbo]

What you buy is 1/3 of the result, how you install it is 1/3, and tuning is the other 1/3.

That might be my new sig. line. If you don't mind

The last two bits on that are very important, and not just in the car audio dept.
I've seen numerous setups w/ Pioneer Premier subs and amps that sound terrible.

Tuning is something that anybody can do with some inexpensive equipment and time. Most people are afraid of it, or don't want to spend the time on it.

[eviltech]

Onemoremile: I was told that having a mono amp and a 4 channel amp is better than a multi.... but you are right its all down to knowledge and tuning. Ok Im going to read some more.