GT35R/2.0 AEB setup questions

[leon]

I already had some contact with Isam for a 2.0 build.
Its clear what i need for the 2.0 build, not for the rest.
I already bought me a ABF crank, spare engine (AEB) and an GT35R.

Plan is to rebuild my spare engine to 2.0 in combination with the GT35R.
Offcourse i need an exhaust manifold, exhaust, etc, etc.

Goal is 400WHP, what can you guys recommend me.?
do i need an IM? And which one.? Do i need 630 or 750cc injectors?
How about the exhaust? (3" or bigger) Wich exhaust manifold do i need?
Do i need other parts..?

I did the search, couldnt find answers..

All help is welcome for this Dutch guy..

[317ssayzarc]

You are going to want aftermarket valve springs and exhaust valves for the head...

You are going to want at least a 3" turbo back exhaust...

You are going to want a nice strong clutch and a lightweight flywheel...

You are going to want turbo oil/coolant lines...

You are going to want a wastegate....

You are going to want a wideband gauge...

You are going to want a boost controller...

And I could go on forever, shoot me a pm and we can discuss

[Side-Step]

My wife's car has a AEB 2L stroker in it. I am using Atp's cast ex. mani and stock AEB intake mani. I also have Cat cams,fasteners, and better ex. valves.
This is what I'm going to be changing and would suggest doing if you can
better exhaust valves(from Bob Q.),
ex. header(either 034's or Bob Q.)
aftermarket intake with larger TB(Ross is the one we are going with. Bob sells them)
Turbo smart or Tial WG
A good DV. We went with one that goes on a EVO made by Forge. It's adjustable
Larger exhaust. Don't know who make a larger(3") that sounds good. May the others can suggest for both of us.

Hope this helps some. I'll add as I think about it.

[Don Supreme]

ideally you need at least 870cc injectors.

[Nebone]

Listen to those guys ^

[seank]

Larger exhaust. Don't know who make a larger(3") that sounds good. May the others can suggest for both of us.

Hope this helps some. I'll add as I think about it.

034 has 3" exhausts, they even offer vband connections all the way through.

[AudiA4_20T]

make sure you dont skip on tuning

[onemoremile]

SPA manifold is one of the best inside and out. Keeps things relatively simple too.

I've got the Techtonics high rev valve spring and retainer set with new stock intake valves for sale. PM me if you want it.

[leon]

Exhaust will be custom made, i`m already running 3" with GTRS, isnt 4"better with the GT35R..?

Onemoremile: You have a PM..

How about the APR manifolds? I see they use inconel (F1 technology) for it.

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/stage3_long.html

Tuning also will be custom, or a KMS

http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/PHP/page...age=management

The "kronenburg" guys also sells 2.0 20v engines, only they ask $10000,- for a rebuild engine, with AEB crank.
No turbo or anything else..

[onemoremile]

APR manis are nice but the turbo placement isn't ideal and APR won't sell you one anyway. Well, they will but it will come with a big price tag and the rest of a stage 3 kit. The SPA manifold looks to be a better design with great merge and turbo placement. Bassed has one and loves it.

10 grand is insane.

[Pete@IE]

We've got one of the spa longitudal manifolds in stock and it's a pretty nice piece, they work out really nicely. The little spacers they include also make reinstallation and access to the top manifolds nuts a breeze. I would definitely recommend that manifold.

Most OEM ecu files are going to be for 630cc. 630cc will fuel 400 whp @ 4 bar (awhp), with a GOOD pump. I don't recommend the walbro's just because I have had a good friend loose a motor to a locked up walbro (GSL392) pump. The bosch 044- TRUE 044's not copies- are more reliable AND higher output, its just an all around better pump.

I would honestly recommend you talk to a tuner though and try to get an 870cc file. Unfortunatly the 870cc injectors themselves- actually a modified 630cc, are extremely hard to get and can be a little bit crappy as far as spray pattern and such goes. We stopped selling them entirely due to spray pattern problems. There is a good high impedence 750cc which is unmodified and would probably work good on the 870 file @ a smidge more fuel pressure to compensate.

I just have a hard time seeing you build a 2L stroker gt35r setup and then only fuel the thing to 400whp when in reality it could make a good amount more... You'll be dealing with the lag of a 500+ whp setup, so why not get the 500+whp to match?



PS: You won't get an APR manifold with a t3 flange even if you buy the whole kit, so that's out, and the inconel is great and all but it is more a marketing tool then a neccessity. A GOOD iron casting will be plenty reliable for this application.

[t1demont1]

SPA manifold, And your gonna want head work if you go gt35r.

[gotaudi]

yeah you will want to rev the motor out to around 8500rpms due to the powerband the GT35r will give you. so build the head with a good set of cams.

[leon]

Is the set (valves) that Onemoremile offers good enough..?
And 400WHP is enough, more is always welcome..

[mike-2ptzero]

Is the set (valves) that Onemoremile offers good enough..?
And 400WHP is enough, more is always welcome..

Stock valves are good enough for just under 8k rpm and to make 400whp on race gas its only going to take around 24-25psi. 800cc injectors are good for over 500whp so 630cc injectors should be able to get you to 400whp without a problem.

The .82 a/r on a 2 liter hits 25psi at 4600 rpms, so if you are only looking for 400whp you might want to go with a .63 a/r which will hit 25psi a bit sooner and give you a little more power band. Maybe even going with a GT3076r which could get you to that 400whp too.


If you plan on pushing up to 30psi and running it past 8k rpms then you will want to upgrade the valvetrain and might as well go with 1mm over valves at that point. No matter what you do your peak hp will be around 7600 rpm's even with the best flowing head, intake manifold and larger TB. So running to 8500 is really only needed if you need to extend the gears or if the power band above 7600 doesn't drop off really hard.

[Don Supreme]

Stock valves are good enough for just under 8k rpm and to make 400whp on race gas its only going to take around 24-25psi. 800cc injectors are good for over 500whp so 630cc injectors should be able to get you to 400whp without a problem.

The .82 a/r on a 2 liter hits 25psi at 4600 rpms, so if you are only looking for 400whp you might want to go with a .63 a/r which will hit 25psi a bit sooner and give you a little more power band. Maybe even going with a GT3076r which could get you to that 400whp too.


If you plan on pushing up to 30psi and running it past 8k rpms then you will want to upgrade the valvetrain and might as well go with 1mm over valves at that point. No matter what you do your peak hp will be around 7600 rpm's even with the best flowing head, intake manifold and larger TB. So running to 8500 is really only needed if you need to extend the gears or if the power band above 7600 doesn't drop off really hard.

Mike,

A little off topic, but I really like the power band on your setup... It makes a lot of torque, over 400 ft/llbs to the wheel right and starting from pretty earlier considering the .82 setup.

[Don Supreme]

Is the set (valves) that Onemoremile offers good enough..?
And 400WHP is enough, more is always welcome..

A fully tweaked 3076 MIGHT give you 400... I say might because I haven't seen a proven dyno on our cars.

Also, I currently run 630cc @ 4 bar on my 35r and i am ITCHING to upgrade to a bigger injector, but I need a tune for it..... 1000cc anyone?

[leon]

I already bought the GT35R, it was on Ebay germany for €400,- (brand new), so i`m not going for the GT30 or something else. I also have the ABF crank in stock..

Right now i`m running a GTRS, cant get it over 277WHP on RON98.
I already have a stronger clutch, LWFW, etc.. So only i thing i need is injectors, new exhaust (if 3" isnt big enough) and some other things..

This project will take a while, i`m expecting a baby in 3months, sow thats where the money goes to, but in the time i want to collect all t partsand start building summer 2009..

[Don Supreme]

3" from turbo to muffler is fine, a 3" cutout will also provide some gains when racing.

[mike-2ptzero]

A fully tweaked 3076 MIGHT give you 400... I say might because I haven't seen a proven dyno on our cars.

Also, I currently run 630cc @ 4 bar on my 35r and i am ITCHING to upgrade to a bigger injector, but I need a tune for it..... 1000cc anyone?

Unless you plan on making over 600whp the 1000cc injectors are just overkill, 800cc would be more then enough and cheaper.

I already bought the GT35R, it was on Ebay germany for €400,- (brand new), so i`m not going for the GT30 or something else. I also have the ABF crank in stock..

Right now i`m running a GTRS, cant get it over 277WHP on RON98.
I already have a stronger clutch, LWFW, etc.. So only i thing i need is injectors, new exhaust (if 3" isnt big enough) and some other things..

This project will take a while, i`m expecting a baby in 3months, sow thats where the money goes to, but in the time i want to collect all t partsand start building summer 2009..

Why do you think 3" exhaust is not big enough?

Here is my dyno pull while running a full 3" exhaust and that was done on a very low reading mustang, so at that point the car was actually making over 600whp.




What clutch are you running now? Because what you think might be strong for your GTRS might be very weak for a GT35r. I run a 4800 lbs dual diaphram 6 puck setup just to hold the power my car makes and while making less power I was able to snap a sprung disk rated for 500 ft lbs which is why I run one rated for 800 ft lbs now. Only clutch on the market I see being able to hold 400+whp and launching it hard would be the CM twin plate which I plan on selling to fill in the area above what the SB clutch kits can handle.

[Don Supreme]

How much does that twin disk Cm cost?

[Don Supreme]

Unless you plan on making over 600whp the 1000cc injectors are just overkill, 800cc would be more then enough and cheaper.

I disagree @ a

BSFC of .55 and a duty cycle of 80%, four 1000cc injectors is best suited for 600 CHP.

Of course I will probably be running my fuel setup @ 4 bar, so if I do get 1k injectors they will be flowing even more. All I am saying is I don't want to have to upgrade injectors again... and 500+ wheel is not too far fetched, if I can get a tune.

[mike-2ptzero]

I disagree @ a

BSFC of .55 and a duty cycle of 80%, four 1000cc injectors is best suited for 600 CHP.

Of course I will probably be running my fuel setup @ 4 bar, so if I do get 1k injectors they will be flowing even more. All I am saying is I don't want to have to upgrade injectors again... and 500+ wheel is not too far fetched, if I can get a tune.

.55? You think our 5 valve head is that bad seeing that a 4 valve head BSFC is .45 and 2 valve head BSFC is .5.


At 600whp on 110 octane my 1000cc injectors are close to being maxed out running 3 bar fuel pressure, at 4 bar they wouldn't even be close to being maxed out. My 800cc injectors didn't max out till I was making well over 500whp and that was just with the fuel pressure a little over 3 bar.

To me actually doing it on the car is much better then doing it on paper, because like everything else in real life not everything done on paper works out exactly like it says it will.

[Don Supreme]

.55? You think our 5 valve head is that bad seeing that a 4 valve head BSFC is .45 and 2 valve head BSFC is .5.


At 600whp on 110 octane my 1000cc injectors are close to being maxed out running 3 bar fuel pressure, at 4 bar they wouldn't even be close to being maxed out. My 800cc injectors didn't max out till I was making well over 500whp and that was just with the fuel pressure a little over 3 bar.

To me actually doing it on the car is much better then doing it on paper, because like everything else in real life not everything done on paper works out exactly like it says it will.

I completely agree, but if it costs the same and there is no significant ill effects then why not just get the bigger injector.

Concerns with bigger injector:
1. part throttle, off idle, cruise response... how will such a big injector run for normal driving
2. Fuel economy, can the injector be fine tuned to maintain superior fuel economy, low fuel injection time (Pulse width/duty cyle, etc) when just cruising @ 14.7 afr.
3. Will the car start on a 25F morning?

If the injectors can pass all those requirements then there isn't really a downside for me.

Plus: They essentially cost the same as a 8xxx set.

[pac1085]

How much does that twin disk Cm cost?

Around $1300 from ultrarev for the fx600. that's what I've got. They also have the fx700 which is a full out race clutch

[mike-2ptzero]

Around $1300 from ultrarev for the fx600. that's what I've got. They also have the fx700 which is a full out race clutch

Thats about what I plan on listing them for, but a little better for 8 lucky A4 owners.

[leon]

And how about Idle with the 800cc injectors...?

[leon]

And how about Idle with the 800cc injectors...?

Nobody?

[mike-2ptzero]

I dont think anyone has ran high imp 800cc injectors. I ran a set of PE 800's back when I was running GIAC tuning, but those were dual pulse injectors(400cc single and 800 cc dual).

[onemoremile]

Probably more info on the big injector setups in the vortex 1.8t engine forum. You could also try calling the guys as USRT.

Another option is to run 8 injectors. For example, Joel Brown's 759whp "1.8t" runs methanol and 8 - 160lb injectors.

[Don Supreme]

I dont think anyone has ran high imp 800cc injectors. I ran a set of PE 800's back when I was running GIAC tuning, but those were dual pulse injectors(400cc single and 800 cc dual).

Uni has a 870cc file (high impedance) for the GTIs.

[mike-2ptzero]

Uni has a 870cc file (high impedance) for the GTIs.

From what I was told that file was never offered to the public, they were working on it for some time but then found out that the 870cc injectors were no longer going to be made. Cant really offer a chip tuned for injectors that no longer exist.

On the Uni site the largest injector file they offer for all the GTI 1.8t's is the BT-630cc.


BTW the last post on the Uni 870cc file thread on Vortex was way back in March asking when it was going to be released, there was no reply to that and then the thread basically died.

[1NaudiA4]

I'm actually running some Siemens 860cc injectors right now and I have absolutely no complaints about them. The car idles great and part throttle is fine.

[mike-2ptzero]

I'm actually running some Siemens 860cc injectors right now and I have absolutely no complaints about them. The car idles great and part throttle is fine.

Did you mean their 870's or do they actually make a 860cc injector?

870cc Siemens injector set ideal for 8v 4cyl & Mk2/3 VR6 engines. Narrow-angle single cone, fast response, reasonable atomization.

[1NaudiA4]

Well they are Siemens 3105 injectors. I had them cleaned and flow tested from witch hunter and they came out to an average of 863cc. Some site advertise them as 865cc some as 870cc.