Potential of TT 225 hp wise?

[ENDEE666]

Hey guys. I am a proud owner of a K04 A6 2.7T now and been on Audizine for a while. Kicking around the idea of a TT 225 to replace my 300ZX Twin Turbo, but I need to know what kind of hp potential I can realistically expect. A few questions I have, again just kicking it around..

1) Someone said that because it was a transverse mounted engine that the Haldex drivetrain can't take much power. Like nothing more than 500hp.. Is this true? What are the drivetrain limitations?

2) Would plan on building up the motor. The 2.2 L from Eurospec caught my eye. With that, along with a big turbo (GT30, GT35R or even GT37R) be capable of like 600+ chp?

3) Aside from the added weight difference and the obvious cosmetic differences, any other differences between coupe and convert?

Ultimately, I am looking to make one capable of mid to upper 10's but still be very streetable.. Is that a possibility? Or is the TT off my list of options?

Thanks guys..

[cpu77]

In my opinion this will never be a 300z. These cars are far more expensive to mod then a 300z. There are no cheap ways to get to 600hp. If I had to throw out a number I would say $20k would be a good place to start:) If you want 600AWHP look at a EVO.

[InTTruder]

How much ar eyou willing to spend?

I've driven a seriously done HPA 3.2 and it makes 0-60 in scary time. A 225 is defacto half the displacement of a Z, so plan accordingly. But we've got Stage 3+ BT 225 making all the speed you can stand, and it's all wheel drive (get the upgrade Haldex). The race haldex is quite capable of 400+, and that in a TT is more fun than a bullet Z (driven on of the new bodies with a lot of power: they handle like shit).

You want bling, get a Z. You want to scare the Z driver on the twisties? Get a TTQ. I love the Z coupe with all the right aero, but it is proof that enough HP can make a pig fly.

[m5racer]

i say if your looking for big HP look elsewear. 1. haldex kinda sucks, i have driven my buddies TT and also seen multiple r32s and what not at the track and the huldex system sucks (bogging and it FWD!) Really if you want big power, go for a evo, STI or something JDM. These cars are money pits for BT stuff and the power gains arnt worth the $. ALso the TT isent that light of a car. almost weights as much as my A4 which has "real" quattro ie Torsen.

[ENDEE666]

I think InTTruder is the one who understands where I am going with this. I am well aware that My Z (and its a 300ZX, not a 350z to keep clear) can make more power. That is not my only objective. The Z is a 91. And a 91 JDM car, so it rattles & has the refinement levels (or lack of) accordingly. I would never get an Evo or Sti because the interiors are cheap and plastic like a Civic.. After having my A6 a while now, (with its rattle free, silent, refined drive) my standards are different. And my A6 has just about every suspension part changed-Bilsteins, H&R springs & rear sway, new control arms & tie rods, and a bunch of bushings, etc., and it had the factory Sport pack. So its a nice solid German car. No Sti or Evo could ever have that.

Honestly, I like the style of the TT, and love the interior. And used they are nice & cheap. And I know 1.8Ts are cheap to mod. I wanted to know the potential I could see from it & what it would take to get it there.. Not looking for huge hp, just 500-600. If I wanted huge hp I would get something V8 and force feed that. Plus, I just want a change. Bored of my Z. I like to have a semi-quick sedan along with a sport coupe (another reason why an Evo or Sti will not do for me) that is fun for some occasional use..

[johnnybravo!]

You should get a hold Jeff Moss @ Torque Factory..I think he would line you up with Del Rio Power.. serious Audi/VW tuners out of Mexico City that dont fyck around..they produce BT kits that produce some pretty healthy #'s..and streetable. with they utilize GIAC software to extract some big powah..good guy named Nathan here on AZ has a DelRio powered TT that hauls some ass..do a search..peace

[m5racer]

.. Not looking for huge hp, just 500-600.

This shows me that you really dont know too much about these cars. Getting 500-600HP out of a tt its going to be very hard(if not impossible) . Those are some pretty huge ass numbers for these cars, especially for an engine that has 225hp (really its jsut a 180hp 1.8t with a K04 in it) so you talking about trippleing the power. Really 400whp is already a BAT like min gt30+ I would say you would need to buy the car, build the engine to the tits and then BAT it. and all that shit dont come cheep for these cars. 600 really isent possible in these cars unless your building a fully built drag car. But BAT + Quattro = Amazing. (haldex system really does suck becuase its FWD though)

[ENDEE666]

This shows me that you really dont know too much about these cars. Getting 500-600HP out of a tt its going to be very hard(if not impossible) . Those are some pretty huge ass numbers for these cars, especially for an engine that has 225hp (really its jsut a 180hp 1.8t with a K04 in it) so you talking about trippleing the power. Really 400whp is already a BAT like min gt30+ I would say you would need to buy the car, build the engine to the tits and then BAT it. and all that shit dont come cheep for these cars. 600 really isent possible in these cars unless your building a fully built drag car. But BAT + Quattro = Amazing. (haldex system really does suck becuase its FWD though)

You are correct. I do not know much about the TT.. Thats the whole reason I posted this. So I can find out what my possibilities are... But what you mention here was exactly my game plan. I wanted to increase displacement to at least 2.0 if not 2.2, then either a GT35 or GT37..

My main questions were about the Haldex. You guys keep saying its FWD, but the TTQ is still a Quattro car correct? Is that the only option in a TTQ 225? If so, from what I have heard about it, it would be a deal breaker..

I want to stay with AWD and stay with Audi for my coupe.. But obviously there is plenty of other cars out there..

[badseed]

Buy a Quattro Coupe. Cheaper than a TT, has real quattro, plus the 5 cylinder is easier to make big power than the 1.8. Talk to 034 Motorsport about that.

[marcus1701]

I think a stage 3 would be more than enough for a TT. They're more about owning than racing. People don't look at the TT as anything fast but more of a car to showcase. Having a stage 3 would be faster than 90% of cars on the road but loud. Honestly I'd go with a 3.2L and putting a single turbo on it.

[AElucky83]

Buy a Quattro Coupe. Cheaper than a TT, has real quattro, plus the 5 cylinder is easier to make big power than the 1.8. Talk to 034 Motorsport about that.

amen to that

[ENDEE666]

Buy a Quattro Coupe. Cheaper than a TT, has real quattro, plus the 5 cylinder is easier to make big power than the 1.8. Talk to 034 Motorsport about that.

Kickin that around too. Not a Ur Quattro but maybe a 90 coupe and just build the hell out of the 5 cyl and slap a big ol turbo on there.. Just hoping to get something newer so its less beat up, more solid & more refined..

My needs, for other reccos-
Refined & solid, German preferred.
Semi modern, 2000 or newer
Audi-like interior quality, comfort & quietness
AWD!
500-600hp with built motor & bigger turbo

I became so sold on AWD after getting my A6 and modding it. Made me dislike RWD. Otherwise I am sure I would have plenty of options to play with...

[AudiGuy84]

Well Eurojet is selling a full race 30R trubo set up for 3200 in my area, its a kit off one of the workers cars. And if that sells before you, you can contact pagparts for a kit thats around 4600. and thats a 30R as well I think Also the haldex is a strong awd system. Whens the last time you heard of someone blowing there system up from to much power..

Edit: Also theres a guy running 706WHP right now in a GTI. He's on the vwvortex site. And to be honest that is the place you should be asking questions about making big power. Why, b/c all the companys that sell kits are members of the site.

[m5racer]

My main questions were about the Haldex. You guys keep saying its FWD, but the TTQ is still a Quattro car correct?

Well this is the thing about the TT that i under stand. The TT's use haldex which is a diffrent from of AWD and in my eyes is not true quattro. See the quattro you would find in your A6 uses a torsen gear system which uses a Electronic Differential Lock which applys breaking to the wheel that is loosing traction then sends power to the other wheels to make up for the slippage. It uses a very simple torsen gear + the assistance of abs road wheel sensors and the EDL. So for instance in my car (B5) i never get wheelspin beucase the car works to stop the slipping wheel before it slips and send power to the other wheels to make up for it 50/50 slpit front back.

Now the Haldex system is a more complicated system that uses a electronic AWD system (haldex) to transfer power from the front to back when slippage occours. Now the big diffreence is that the TT's are FWD until the front wheels actually start slipping, once they slip (and you hear them slip up front) the haldex computer sences that there this loss of traction and "very slowly" sends the power to the back of the car thus enguageing in actual AWD.

I have seen the very shitty imo HALDEX hard at work at waterfest. In R32's which have HALDEX or 4motion i wittnesed at the track then when they launch how the system is inferiour to real Torsen driven Quattro. As the car launches the front wheels start to spin, the car then bogs (beucase it sends the power to the back) and then fully grips and takes off. A torsen driven car would (if launched properly) grip and go with no bogging.

Now I know what people say that you can upgrade your haldex controler to a "race controler" but all that does is make the entire process a little quicker. The car is still FWD until the front wheels slip then the computer sences this faster and send the power to the bakc wheels. The car will still need to sence the front wheels slipping before it send the power to the back, the race controler jsut does the process a little faster. Now at waterfest i discovered a sweedish company that makes a little metal cilinder that eliminates the Haldex controler compleaty and truns the car into true all time AWD and ti cost around $300 rather then the 700-1,000 the race controler costs and this little piece takes all the computer shit out while still using the haldex fluid.
Another down side to the haldex driven cars is that the fluid and filter (like $120 or something stupid like that) has to be changed Once a year or every 15,000km.

So there you go. i would say your best bet is getting an audi 90 and building that beast up. I know that car can easily handle 600hp on a built engine and i heard that the 5 cilinder in that car is like tank strong. Also maby concider a B5 a4 mostly gutted IE everything from the back seats to the trunk. and build a monster out of that.

[InTTruder]

Begin with the end in mind: WHAT is your goal? All this middle ground is pointless unless related to your stated goal.

And FWIW, I don't showcase my TT. I track it, DE it, and auto-x it. It's only CSP in SCCA, but I enjoy NOT bogging my Haldex. Technique is everything. And I have routinely whupped a Stage 2+ whatever in some of those. Like the ad says: power is nothing wihtout control.

[ENDEE666]

I think M5Racer answered what I needed to know. And that was the limitations and solutions to the Haldex. Based on that, unfortunately the TT has dropped a few notches on my list of potential coupes...

Thanks for the help all.

[demea]

I think a stage 3 would be more than enough for a TT. They're more about owning than racing. People don't look at the TT as anything fast but more of a car to showcase. Having a stage 3 would be faster than 90% of cars on the road but loud. Honestly I'd go with a 3.2L and putting a single turbo on it.

I still cant get used to the concept of throwing all kinds of $$$ into a car, knowing that the end result will have its ass handed to it by alot of factory cars.

Honestly, I'd rather be showcasing my taillights in some other model car to 99% of whats on the road for the cash it takes to make the 1.8 a legit street car.

I love Audi, but they arent the best choice for HUGE power.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

I think M5Racer answered what I needed to know. And that was the limitations and solutions to the Haldex. Based on that, unfortunately the TT has dropped a few notches on my list of potential coupes...

Thanks for the help all.

You should really rethink the haldex info, do some more research

http://www.unitronic.ca/car.php?id=23

Unitronic has a MK2 w/ Haldex and R32 Engine boosted running low 10's 600awhp

They also have some TT's that have 400+awhp on a 225 motor stock Haldex system

I know a guy with a 225, stage III+ APR, Methanol, clutch upgrade that eats up evo's and sti's

I have a B5 and i think the mechanical AWD is still superior but the haldex is definatly capable and tuneable to do what you want it to.

[Dave@EuroTechnik]

I still cant get used to the concept of throwing all kinds of $$$ into a car, knowing that the end result will have its ass handed to it by alot of factory cars.

Honestly, I'd rather be showcasing my taillights in some other model car to 99% of whats on the road for the cash it takes to make the 1.8 a legit street car.

I love Audi, but they arent the best choice for HUGE power.

name some of those other brands you would rather showcase and how much they cost

[InTTruder]

I think M5Racer answered what I needed to know. And that was the limitations and solutions to the Haldex. Based on that, unfortunately the TT has dropped a few notches on my list of potential coupes...

Thanks for the help all.

Oh ye of little faith. You want it easy. Enjoy the mediocrity.

[ENDEE666]

Oh ye of little faith. You want it easy. Enjoy the mediocrity.

Cheers to that! I HATE mediocrity & the common path. Thats why I went with an A6 2.7T and not an S4. Only a 150 lb difference and 100x more unique and rare, especially modded..

[wofman]

like he said!

(I like your initial TT idea, seems like a great base but had no idea it wasn't quattro -- been following this one a bit)

[ENDEE666]

Well the thing I choose all my cars on is this. Right now, after I beat someone on the street, I get the reaction I want. Instead of "Those S4's are fast.." I get "WOW, I didn't know an A6 could be fast! What have you done to that thing??"

I can see a similar setup with a TT. Instead of "Those EVO's are fast" I would get "WOW, I didn't know a TT could be so fast!!" And I like the latter much better..

I never said I wanted the easiest car to mod, nor that the cost of doing so was my main concern. Not saying money is non issue by any stretch of the imagination! But I have over $25k invested in my Z, not including purchase of the car... Now I do not plan on putting that much into a TT, but it just shows that some incorrect assumptions have been made..

And I think after seeing what some VW guys have done with the 1.8T hp wise, it is very much possible. If I built the motor & incresed it to 2.0 or 2.2, along with Haldex mods, and a big turbo, we would have a serious beast on our hands..

Its still in the running.. Also said this was not a today thing, as I still need to sell my Z to fund a lot of it...

[InTTruder]

Sounds like you've got a good track. An S6 Avant is a Q-ship (google that), a TT done right is just a joy to drive hard. A Quattro Coupe is a work of art, but getting that 20 y/o beastie up to snuff is another whole project. Whatever you get, I want to see the pics.

And no Z please! It is SO done!

[ENDEE666]

I get the impression people think I want to get a 350z. I do NOT. I already have a 300zx TT and that is what I have been talking about replacing. It has about 550hp (Will be dyno tuned in next few weeks) and likely looks like no other 300zx you have seen. Have even had her up to 175mph, sat confirmed cause speedo only reads 160... Pics-

[ENDEE666]

Oh, and those pics are with the old wheels. I now have 19x10 & 19x8.5. Those were 18x9 & 18x8

[Wizard-of-OD]

This shows me that you really dont know too much about these cars. Getting 500-600HP out of a tt its going to be very hard(if not impossible)

Pot calling the kettle black?

To the OP,send me a PM to discuss this further or add me to aim : issamabed.

Pick a HP goal and we will guide you from there.600hp is certainly doable from the engine but the dfferentials will start to let go.

For the record the "1.8T" engine has been taken to over 800whp allready.I am going for more with this:

[InTTruder]

A Z is a Z!

Looks VERY nice, and obviously you know how to get the power down. Well done! Good luck on this project. I know a certain "Roach" and another Stage 3 that can make that kind of MPH just fine!

[mianol]

lol im my head 500hp is still pretty BIG numbers.....
doesnt ur 300 get A LOT of turbo lag and the TT has very little?
just askin =P

once u go german comfy u cant really go back to imports....thats what happened to me lol

[ENDEE666]

Yeah, lag is pretty rough in the Z.. Even compared to my K04 2.7T.

I know the T has very little lag stock, but once you put a big enough turbo to make big power I am sure it will increase. Thats why increasing displacement was a big priority. a 2.2L will have less lag than the 1.8..

[O2VW1.8T]

Im building my Gti 1.8T, I have full audi TT drivetrain... Im going for 600whp and i dont see any problems. This car will run 10's on pump gas

[ENDEE666]

What is involved in the build? What size turbo, what displacement on the motor?

[O2VW1.8T]

What is involved in the build? What size turbo, what displacement on the motor?

gt35r, stock displacement, rods, stock pistons, fully built head, nothing to wild. Trying to keep it simple.

[ENDEE666]

Wow. 10s with stock displacement? How will lag be on a GT35R with only 1.8L? I would think that going 2.0-2.2 would dramatically reduce lag & beef up some torque... What redline will you be running to with the built heads?

[O2VW1.8T]

Wow. 10s with stock displacement? How will lag be on a GT35R with only 1.8L? I would think that going 2.0-2.2 would dramatically reduce lag & beef up some torque... What redline will you be running to with the built heads?

1.8L is plently enough to go 9's. Its a little laggy i get full boost with the .82 housing at 5300rpm and im reving to 9k. Im not trying to get more torque, torque is a clutch killer.... Hopefully the car will be done by next month.

heres my small build up. I'll start a new one onch everything gets here.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3793464&page=1

[ENDEE666]

Very nicely done!! See the 5300 rpm thing is a buzz kill for me. Its one of the things I grew to hate about my Z once I got the Audi. I am hoping 2-2.2L along with head work will get full boost by mid 4k's.. And I still plan to rev to close to 9k as well. But props, nice build you have going..

Question tho- That manifold looks sick! Does top mount vs bottom have any effect on lag or performance? Or is it just the "Hey look at my turbo" thing?

[ENDEE666]

And what kind of head work did you do?

[O2VW1.8T]

And what kind of head work did you do?

AEB head, Supertech valve's, supertech springs and retianers, Cat 3652 cams, and cat cams sprocket. Head should be good for 9000rpm

[BlkOut]

Well I think this thread from another forum is very informative!!!
http://audiforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94165
also think of the survivability over the JDM's, they aren't built to autobahn safety specs! I feel safer in my TT than I did in my mitsu eclipse, friends sti, and evo. I think that the TT has more potential for eating moFo's on the top end and curves rather than straight line racing, lets see them catch you at 120+

[ENDEE666]

Well I think this thread from another forum is very informative!!!
http://audiforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94165
also think of the survivability over the JDM's, they aren't built to autobahn safety specs! I feel safer in my TT than I did in my mitsu eclipse, friends sti, and evo. I think that the TT has more potential for eating moFo's on the top end and curves rather than straight line racing, lets see them catch you at 120+

YES!! My Z is very stable @ high speeds (had it to about 175 once and many runs to 150+) but still not as "German" as the Audi feels. And even with a goal of mid-high 10s I still plan on running a full weight & full interior car for some added sleeper factor.

My main point is this- You don't even see stock Evo's or Sti's anymore, without something done to them. So its basically old news and getting more played by the day. How often do you see a 10 or even 11 sec TT??

I have pretty much decided that the TT is the next project for me. So this thread is now more "How do I do it" instead of "Can I do it"... Time line I would say it should be done by Spring. I need to do a little tuning & clean up on the Z so I can sell it for as much as possible so the money from that can help fund it. Will probably do the work itself over the winter.

So far my desired mod list-
Eurospec 2.2L Short block
Worked AEB head w cams, valves, port work
Tubular exh mani
GT35R
Upgraded intake mani
Big intercooler
Injectors, 85 or 100mm MAF housing, tuning, etc
3" Turbo back. Muffled but also with electric dump
Haldex conversion (Looking at HPA one so far)
Launch control
Clutch & fly
Big brakes
Coilovers & sways

PSYCHED!!!