Turbo Question

[HTA A4]

I'm planning to upgrade turbos this winter, but I'm debating on which to get. I'm ordering from DTH and I was going to get the GTRS setup becuase I have a stock engine as of now. But I plan on building my engine up in the next few years, keywords FEW YEARS though. So which should I get, just the GTRS setup, or the 71r? I like the thought of the earlier spool on the GTRS but will the 71r really be worth the extra hp? And how much horsepower? Especially becuase I don't have a built engine yet too? Thanks guys

[Condo]

Either one will work fine without a built motor. From what I've read they both have about the same power but the 71r will hold it a little longer.

[A4Tuuuurbo]

+1 ^

Between those two I would go 71r.. Just for the simple fact that when you DO happen to get around to some other things, you can really pull some more power out of it..

It really depends on what kind of driving you do.. You want power up top or down low?

[HTA A4]

I want power that will just keep you back in your seat and pulling harder and harder until you shift

[A4Tuuuurbo]

71r then.. Especially if you plan on doing mani, internals, and fuel later on.

Don't believe what everyone tells you if you want to do internals later.. its fine just don't go nuts on boost until you get some internal work done. You don't even have to replace the pistons because they are forged from the factory, talk to Pauter when you are ready. They make custom machined rods to fit the stock pistons that allow for the new gap. They are def badass and will save you money.


EDIT: And your spool will be fine!

[AudiA4Turbo22]

really depends on ur plans and tune:

If u want a turbo that will spool before 3500 rom's get the GTRS it is nearly the same as the 71R, just spools faster and holds the power till a tad bit over 6k rpm's the 71R will spool a bit later and hold till about 7k rpm's i might be wrong about the RPM numbers, but not too far! the 71R has a capability to generate more power, but again it depends on ur tune! If u go with a more aggressive timing and boost setting the turbo will boost sweet but the stress on the motor is increased by enough that by one wrong move or a simple mistake in the setting can blow the connecting rod through the side of the block. I always think that it should be run conservatively especially if ur engine has lots of miles as the piston rings have worn a bit already(do a compression test before u go BT) so it is up to u if ur planning on going 2.0 Stroker in the future than i'd suggest u save up for it instead of buying turbos twice, and just get a 3076R like Shawn and call it a day, then u'll have so much power not only ur tires but ur brain will spin as well!

[A4ringedONE8T]

Both the GTRS and 71R Elim ran to there MAX will not go beyond the limits of a stock motor. Greg has maxed his 71R out for the most part, with 323awhp on MS109, GTRS's have also been maxed out on race gas around 320awhp. There is nothing you can do with either of those setups thats going to yield much better results. And unless you run MS109 100% of the time and always have your settings maxed out, those power levels should not destroy a stock bottom end.

If you are wanting something that can go beyond those power levels, with a built motor in the future, look more into the full framed GT2871R setups, as well as the 3071/3076R setups. Either of these can be ran on more moderate settings, make equal power, then have room to grow once you break into the motor.

[AudiA4_20T]

honestly man, get a BAT and run low boost, no need to keep switching setups if you plan on building the motor anyway

[A4Tuuuurbo]

Both the GTRS and 71R Elim ran to there MAX will not go beyond the limits of a stock motor. Greg has maxed his 71R out for the most part, with 323awhp on MS109, GTRS's have also been maxed out on race gas around 320awhp. There is nothing you can do with either of those setups thats going to yield much better results. And unless you run MS109 100% of the time and always have your settings maxed out, those power levels should not destroy a stock bottom end.

If you are wanting something that can go beyond those power levels, with a built motor in the future, look more into the full framed GT2871R setups, as well as the 3071/3076R setups. Either of these can be ran on more moderate settings, make equal power, then have room to grow once you break into the motor.

WAIT! We weren't talking about the 3071? lol... I thought we were!

I guess I've been out of the loop too long.

[Toast]

so a BAT without a built motor is asking for trouble - right?
what rpms does boost start hitting with a BAT?

rough estimates

K04 spools 3200
GTRS spools 3500
71R spools 3600
307x spools

[dougyfresh]

Not really. If you're running some form of boost controller you can have the boost set low and it'll be fine.

Its all about the tune. You can run whatever you want with or without a built motor. Its the tune that controls how much power you're going to make and whether or not you are going to stress the internals to their limits (in the case of a stock motor).

[A4Tuuuurbo]

^ Bon Doogey!

[HTA A4]

I'll be REVO tuned with an SPS3

What kind of power numbers are you runnning Doug? and guesses if you haven't dyno'd?

[A4Tuuuurbo]

^ Bon Doogey!!!

[dougyfresh]

I'm planning to upgrade turbos this winter, but I'm debating on which to get. I'm ordering from DTH and I was going to get the GTRS setup becuase I have a stock engine as of now. But I plan on building my engine up in the next few years, keywords FEW YEARS though. So which should I get, just the GTRS setup, or the 71r? I like the thought of the earlier spool on the GTRS but will the 71r really be worth the extra hp? And how much horsepower? Especially becuase I don't have a built engine yet too? Thanks guys

Do you really plan on keeping your car for many years to come? (like myself)

If so, then please sit down and lay out your ultimate goals. Categorize things relative to 'want' and 'need' and 'cost'. From there you can piece together exactly what you want and figure out a timeline that meets your budget. Once that is established you can being to start piecing together the engine/turbo/system you so desire.

For example: If your desire is something along the lines of a 2.0 stroker with a Garrett 30 series turbo then you can start with the turbo and hardware on your stock motor and detune it to avoid pushing the internals beyond their limits.

Another example is to run with an eliminator kit (28 or 71 whatever you want) and run that as-is for now until you have the funding for a built motor (forged internals and whatever you want in the head) and a 30series turbo. You can always sell the eliminator kit for they are in high demand. Just note that you won't sell it for what you paid for (if you bought it new).


Just some things to think about before you open your wallet. I personally feel stuff like this requires a plan. I planned out my car from the get-go. That is why I never bought any software flash or other tidbits and went straight from bone stock to GT28RS on a 1.8T with supporting mods. That lasted a few months and I immediately jumped into my next phase (2.0) since I had a spare motor sitting around my garage.

I'll be REVO tuned with an SPS3

What kind of power numbers are you runnning Doug? and guesses if you haven't dyno'd?

My car is going back to ASP on Sept 13th for a complete rewrite of my software. Custom Me7 tune. Once that is complete I'll post up numbers. Right now my car is running at the minimum amount of power it'll make since I know that is safe (based upon my logs) and the file I currently have is incomplete. I won't guess numbers for its all inconclusive unless you have real world info to back it up (dyno graphs).

[HTA A4]

^ Bon Doogey!!!

lol what?

[AudiA4Turbo22]

^^that means: "Right ON"

byt ya i would recommend u do what the big motor guys are saying, as they've tried almost every turbo on the market before going 2.0 stroker and i think that buying a 3071/3076R and tuning it conservatively is the right way to go, Shawn can help u get one of those, and this way in the future u build the motor up the tune and ur golden!

[HTA A4]

Do you really plan on keeping your car for many years to come? (like myself)

If so, then please sit down and lay out your ultimate goals. Categorize things relative to 'want' and 'need' and 'cost'. From there you can piece together exactly what you want and figure out a timeline that meets your budget. Once that is established you can being to start piecing together the engine/turbo/system you so desire.

For example: If your desire is something along the lines of a 2.0 stroker with a Garrett 30 series turbo then you can start with the turbo and hardware on your stock motor and detune it to avoid pushing the internals beyond their limits.

Another example is to just slap on an eliminator kit (28 or 71 whatever you want) and run that as-is for now until you have the funding for a built motor (forged internals and whatever you want in the head) and a 30series turbo. You can always sell the eliminator kit for they are in high demand. Just note that you won't sell it for what you paid for (if you bought it new).


Just some things to think about before you open your wallet. I personally feel stuff like this requires a plan. I planned out my car from the get-go. That is why I never bought any software flash or other tidbits.






My car is going back to ASP on Sept 13th for a complete rewrite of my software. Custom Me7 tune. Once that is complete I'll post up numbers. Right now my car is running at the minimum amount of power it'll make since I know that is safe (based upon my logs) and the file I currently have is incomplete.

Yeah, I plan on keeping this car for a veeerryy long time so I had a plan... Get a GTRS elim. with all the goods (supporting mods) and leave at that. But then I was thinking, lots of people are going bigger than that and building their engines. So I, in turn, wanted more. I'm still trying to learn everything about logging though. I'm ordering a cable from AWE sometime this week because I've been trying to read up and understand timing and what to log and how to know when and how much to change your timing.. Still don't really have it but I'm trying..

Here's what I'm looking for.. ~325 AWHP on pump when I'm done with the engine build.

[mike-2ptzero]

Yeah, I plan on keeping this car for a veeerryy long time so I had a plan... Get a GTRS elim. with all the goods (supporting mods) and leave at that. But then I was thinking, lots of people are going bigger than that and building their engines. So I, in turn, wanted more. I'm still trying to learn everything about logging though. I'm ordering a cable from AWE sometime this week because I've been trying to read up and understand timing and what to log and how to know when and how much to change your timing.. Still don't really have it but I'm trying..

Here's what I'm looking for.. ~325 AWHP on pump when I'm done with the engine build.

You would need a full GT2871r with the big a/r to get 325whp on pump gas with a built 2 liter. Easier way to get that would to just run a GT3071 or 3076 on low boost and then bump that boost up after you build the bottom end. If your running low boost on the 1.8t you wont feel as much lag since you wont be running anything higher then 10psi anyway, so boost will be there even at 3000 rpm. Then if you go 1.9 or 2.0 liter build it wont feel so bad when you really start to push that boost into the 20's.

So now would be the time to just go big with the turbo setup and not have to end up buying 2 completely different turbo kits.

There are plenty of choices for a full GT2871r to 3076r setup which include ATP, SPA, 034, ER and full-race. Feel free to pm me if you have questions on any of those.

[HTA A4]

Both the GTRS and 71R Elim ran to there MAX will not go beyond the limits of a stock motor. Greg has maxed his 71R out for the most part, with 323awhp on MS109, GTRS's have also been maxed out on race gas around 320awhp. There is nothing you can do with either of those setups thats going to yield much better results. And unless you run MS109 100% of the time and always have your settings maxed out, those power levels should not destroy a stock bottom end.

If you are wanting something that can go beyond those power levels, with a built motor in the future, look more into the full framed GT2871R setups, as well as the 3071/3076R setups. Either of these can be ran on more moderate settings, make equal power, then have room to grow once you break into the motor.

Shawn,
What do you mean by a "full framed GT2871r setup"? Like fueling mani. TIP and the BT software or is there more?

[Condo]

Shawn,
What do you mean by a "full framed GT2871r setup"? Like fueling mani. TIP and the BT software or is there more?

Full framed means that it is not an eliminator turbo. The eliminators have a smaller turbine housing in order to work with the stock exhaust manifold.

[dougyfresh]

Full framed means that it is not an eliminator turbo. The eliminators have a smaller turbine housing in order to work with the stock exhaust manifold.

smaller turbine inlet

[Condo]

smaller turbine inlet

I always thought the whole housing was smaller. Does anyone have a picture of a GTRS elim next to a GT28RS?

[sean1.8t]

I won't guess numbers for its all inconclusive unless you have real world info to back it up (1/4 trap numbers).

fixed

[absolutegtr]

So running a 3071 on a stock 1.8, a safe boost level would be around 10psi? How much power would you see on pump? More than a GTRS?

My original plan was to run a GTRS, but since I am at a 100k miles, I would like to run a BT/BAT for another 30k miles or so and then upgrade the rods and install new rings (staying 1.8). Then i would be able to up the boost on the 3071 with the new rods.

Would that make sense? Would I see more power with a GTRS at ~20psi o a 3071 at ~10psi?

[dougyfresh]

I always thought the whole housing was smaller. Does anyone have a picture of a GTRS elim next to a GT28RS?

I don't have any pictures of an Elim. I can provide pictures of my old 28RS. I know the inlet is smaller so the Elim will fit on the stock manifold. I thought the turbine wheel is the same. The exit is the same size as stock which is smaller than the 5 bolt flange on the 28RS. Does that make a difference? Probably, because of exhaust velocities.

[Condo]

I don't have any pictures of an Elim. I can provide pictures of my old 28RS. I know the inlet is smaller so the Elim will fit on the stock manifold. I thought the turbine wheel is the same. The exit is the same size as stock which is smaller than the 5 bolt flange on the 28RS. Does that make a difference? Probably, because of exhaust velocities.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the elims have the same size turbine wheel stuffed in smaller housings and a smaller inlet. I'll post up a pic of my GTRS when I get home tonight.

[dougyfresh]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the elims have the same size turbine wheel stuffed in smaller housings and a smaller inlet. I'll post up a pic of my GTRS when I get home tonight.

Here are shots of my 28RS:

[sean1.8t]

So running a 3071 on a stock 1.8, a safe boost level would be around 10psi? How much power would you see on pump? More than a GTRS?

My original plan was to run a GTRS, but since I am at a 100k miles, I would like to run a BT/BAT for another 30k miles or so and then upgrade the rods and install new rings (staying 1.8). Then i would be able to up the boost on the 3071 with the new rods.

Would that make sense? Would I see more power with a GTRS at ~20psi o a 3071 at ~10psi?

10psi on a 3071 would be like ~220Awhp(give or most likely take 20whp)

fwiw, 16psi on a 3076r would be in the 280whp range

[absolutegtr]

10psi on a 3071 would be like ~220Awhp(give or most likely take 20whp)

fwiw, 16psi on a 3076r would be in the 280whp range

Right. From what I have gathered though, it is not "safe" to run any more than ~10psi on stock internals with a 3071...right?

For me, right now, it is a toss-up between a GTRS or 3071.

[sean1.8t]

Right. From what I have gathered though, it is not "safe" to run any more than ~10psi on stock internals with a 3071...right?

For me, right now, it is a toss-up between a GTRS or 3071.

where did you gather that? psi is not what kills a motor. (these aren't high compression motors. they are built for boost). too much hp/tq is what kills motors. that and a bad tune.

so keep it within safe power levels(like a 3071r @ 15psi w/a good mild tune) and you will be ok

[mike-2ptzero]

fixed

Well unless he runs on a dyno that we already know to give a "correct" reading, not that over inflated reading dyno of his tuner. How long did they really think it was going to take for people to figure that out when a shop pops out 700whp S4's running drag radials that cant break into the 10's running at some of the fastest tracks in the country.

Whats going to be next, 400whp A4's from them that cant break into the 12's?

[A4ringedONE8T]

My car with the 3071R, stock MAF and 430's with REVO BT did 264whp on 18psi, pump gas. With the correct file, larger injectors, and a larger MAF, I would not go over 18-20psi on a 3071R with the stock bottom end

[dougyfresh]

Well unless he runs on a dyno that we already know to give a "correct" reading, not that over inflated reading dyno of his tuner. How long did they really think it was going to take for people to figure that out when a shop pops out 700whp S4's running drag radials that cant break into the 10's running at some of the fastest tracks in the country.

Whats going to be next, 400whp A4's from them that cant break into the 12's?

How do you figure? My car bone stock on that same dyno was 100awhp (LOW). Granted that the atmospheric conditions won't be the same in September as December 30th but still.

[sean1.8t]

^it's called 2 700+Awhp S4's that can't trap higher than 130

[absolutegtr]

Thanks to the two sean/shawn-(s)

My car with the 3071R, stock MAF and 430's with REVO BT did 264whp on 18psi, pump gas. With the correct file, larger injectors, and a larger MAF, I would not go over 18-20psi on a 3071R with the stock bottom end

I was just going over your onethousand page thread I might have to break that read over the course of a week, lol

[A4ringedONE8T]

Thanks to the two sean/shawn-(s)

I was just going over your onethousand page thread I might have to break that read over the course of a week, lol

haha, that thread kept going and going and going and going ... and going and going .... yup and going and going

A4RingedONE8T = Longest BT Thread in AZ History! lol

[dirtybrd]

I'd go 3071 or 3076 and all other supporting mods, keep the boost under 20 psi and put rods in it later after you're tired of the power level. Those turbos don't even start working until 23+psi.

[Toast]

whats the difference between 3071 and 3076 assuming they are both running at ~15psi?

I was also thinking GTRS but the BAT idea sounds really good. Price wise there doesnt seem to be much difference between GTRS kit and 30xx turbos with mani and custom tune.

[JMRQuattro]

ok so i have a question about something relating to earlier in the thread. With the 71r, as opposed to the GTRS, wouldn't you be able to get better gas mileage easier since it spools at sightly higher rpm's? Since the boost wouldn't kick in until later if you were to shift early enough you wouldn't even be getting any power assistance from the turbo which makes it easier to better mileage?