tranny oil

[nul0s]

Wich oil did you use in your 1.8t quattro 5 speed manual tranny and how many liter is required when you changing it...

thank

[mike-2ptzero]

Redline or Motul, with 1 qt of Redline ShockProof.

IIRC it is 3 quarts, just leave the side plug off while filling it so you know when you have enough in the tranny.

[nul0s]

redline mt-90??? or MTL ??? so i need 3 quart of redline mt.. and 1 quart of Redline ShockProof...

and i wanted to do a seafom tranny traitment befor changing my oil.... did anybody ever done this?

[nul0s]

hum and wich grade of oil??? and superchock???

[dougyfresh]

I have MTL because I thought it was MT90 until I finished putting the 2nd bottle in. Somehow I had a bunch of both MT90 and MTL sitting in my garage and grabbed the MTL. Don't know where it came from but it was still sealed.

I also have a quart of Heavy Shockproof in mine like Mike suggested.

Insert 1 quart of regular, 1 quart of Shockproof and the rest regular. This way it'll mix well up front as opposed to after some amount mileage.

From a fully empty trans mine took 3 to 3.5 quarts if I recall correctly. That was a drained trans since I had the tailhousing off and the trans out of the car. I think 3 quarts should work if you drain from the drain plug. Might as well buy 4 so you have an extra quart to top off and use in the future.

Once you drive it for about 10-20 miles let the car cool and recheck the fluid level to make sure you got it full after having the oil move around a bit. Kind of like how you start your engine after changing the engine oil to get it pumping and lubricating. Then shut down and recheck the oil level.....

[wolfdog]

Note to myself in the future:
Nov 2012, ~131k miles
Rear Differential: 1.5 Motul 300, 0.5 Heavy Shockproof
Transmission: 1 MT90 GL4, 1.5 Motul 300, 0.5 Heavy Shockproof

Note to everyone else:
Was running 100% MT90 and the cold starts were painful shifting. We've had some cold morning so far and this mix is amazing. Definitely shifting smoother in the cold and warmed up. Very happy with this new mix after 2k miles in some cold weather.

EDIT: Feb 2017 this mix is still doing well, now at 184k miles. Due to replace both of these again and will absolutely use the same mix.

[westie180]

We've got a good discussion on this that's been going over a year now.

[maurizio]

seeing the mt90 issue only with very cold weather here too. I will either go back to OEM or add some shockproof.

[MikTip]

Motul Gear 300!
Its GL4 and GL5!
Have it in my 6 speed gear box and rear diff!
One oil for both! Easy!

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

We have manual transmission service kits available below!

Click HERE to order or for more information.


Let me know if you have any questions.

Jason

[Timtheguru]

Redline is considered the worst fluid for these transmissions... Sorry Jason for shitting on all of your product plugs... but please don't suggest Redline to people.

[Charles.waite]

Redline is considered the worst fluid for these transmissions... Sorry Jason for shitting on all of your product plugs... but please don't suggest Redline to people.

Citation Needed...

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Citation Needed...

Yeah really. We run this fluid in the majority of the vehicles here as well as in many of our personal vehicles and never hand any issues.

Jason

[Timtheguru]

Citation Needed...

So says an Audi/VW transmission expert.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post8128139

Edit: This is just the latest post that I could quickly find from Scotty on the matter... this has been known for years. Would be nice if Scotty could say why here.

[Charles.waite]

So says an Audi/VW transmission expert.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post8128139

Edit: This is just the latest post that I could quickly find from Scotty on the matter... this has been known for years.

He's sure got a lot of facts to back up that assertion.

I'm sure Scotty knows his shit, but I need a little more than that to go on. Read this for instance: http://www.syntheticoilhq.com/pdf/g2...comparison.pdf

Or join the discussion here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...25-redline-mtl

If I took every "this is the best because I said so" statement from the purported experts on AZ I would probably not have a functioning car.

[Timtheguru]

He's sure got a lot of facts to back up that assertion.

I'm sure Scotty knows his shit, but I need a little more than that to go on. Read this for instance: http://www.syntheticoilhq.com/pdf/g2...comparison.pdf

Or join the discussion here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...25-redline-mtl

If I took every "this is the best because I said so" statement from the purported experts on AZ I would probably not have a functioning car.

It's true, research should be done, but I don't need to prove his point because it's all in the archive. I don't have time to re-iterate every single thing that has been discussed in the past and link to all of the archive data. Just know that this has been proven before and it's there to research if you don't believe me or Scotty.

Aside from that, I don't just go by what people say and do them, once someone makes a claim, I'll research it on my own to prove one way or another. Anyway... my two cents on that.

I don't believe that ECS tuning does a lot of testing with fluids (tell me if I'm wrong) and I bet Jason isn't in the know about the products that his buying department chooses to pick up and sell and the reason to do so. Anyway... just wanted to put that out there for you guys.

[Timtheguru]

Yeah really. We run this fluid in the majority of the vehicles here as well as in many of our personal vehicles and never hand any issues.

Jason

Good job removing the sentence about how it's notchy when it's cold and not shifting hard until it's warmed up.

[Charles.waite]

It's true, research should be done, but I don't need to prove his point because it's all in the archive. I don't have time to re-iterate every single thing that has been discussed in the past and link to all of the archive data. Just know that this has been proven before and it's there to research if you don't believe me or Scotty.

Aside from that, I don't just go by what people say and do them, once someone makes a claim, I'll research it on my own to prove one way or another. Anyway... my two cents on that.

I don't believe that ECS tuning does a lot of testing with fluids (tell me if I'm wrong) and I bet Jason isn't in the know about the products that his buying department chooses to pick up and sell and the reason to do so. Anyway... just wanted to put that out there for you guys.

Irony...

And of course ECS doesn't do testing. Neither does Napa when they push Valvoline or whatever else is on sale there. Just think about that, people who sell things try to push the products they sell.

Not trying to start an oil war here (haha) just hate seeing people jump all over ECS because they're ECS.

[Timtheguru]

Scotty sells motul 300 as well so thats that. ECS is fine, just has shitty shipping charges and sales people that dont know what theyre selling.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Scotty sells motul 300 as well so thats that. ECS is fine, just has shitty shipping charges and sales people that dont know what theyre selling.

Funny, I actually know quite a bit about the products we offer. That would be pretty silly to be on the forums full of Audi enthusiasts if I wasn't one myself and had no idea what I was talking about. Do I know everything about every single Audi model? No. I never claimed to either. I have lots of resources available to me and the ability to search the internet to find out about something if I don't know. I learn new things everyday - so please don't ever doubt my ability.

As for shipping check this out.. We now offer shipping through USPS! Below is a helpful image that walks you through how to change shipping options!



Cheers!

Jason

[Timtheguru]

Irony...

And of course ECS doesn't do testing. Neither does Napa when they push Valvoline or whatever else is on sale there. Just think about that, people who sell things try to push the products they sell.

Not trying to start an oil war here (haha) just hate seeing people jump all over ECS because they're ECS.

What is the irony here? I researched this topic before, and I drew my own conclusions based on the information available. I suggest you all do the same. I'm just pointing out that the info is available.

Funny, I actually know quite a bit about the products we offer. That would be pretty silly to be on the forums full of Audi enthusiasts if I wasn't one myself and had no idea what I was talking about. Do I know everything about every single Audi model? No. I never claimed to either. I have lots of resources available to me and the ability to search the internet to find out about something if I don't know. I learn new things everyday - so please don't ever doubt my ability.

As for shipping check this out.. We now offer shipping through USPS! Below is a helpful image that walks you through how to change shipping options!

Cheers!

Jason

Not a cut on you, although, what are the benefits of Redline transmission fluid?

Just trying to keep one vendor from sending mixed messages that they only sell the best products for our cars. Just because you link a product that is generally the same product as the thread title from 4 years ago doesn't make me think you know what you're talking about. I don't doubt that you understand what products you sell, but you sell thousands of them, and you're in sales... most sales people I know don't know anything about retail COTS (commercial off the shelf) products so you'd be the exception.

[Charles.waite]

I think whole milk is the worst kind of milk. I heard a farmer say it once.

^^ Thats essentially what you said above. Now you are backtracking and saying you do your research and that others should to. Thats fine, but you offer no proof for your assertion other than a link to a post where the farmer stated he drank 2% and in his testing (whatever that may be) skim milk 1% and whole were inferior.

Theres no defiinition of what inferior might mean in that regard. Does it taste funny? Is it too thick? Too much fat and thus unhealthy? Or is it just that he's always drank 2% and thats just what he prefers?

See what I'm getting at? The myriad of Gear oil threads generally go along the same lines as Motor Oil threads. No proof just a bunch of he said she said and he's an expert so he must know.

Simply saying Whole Milk is the worst kind of milk is completely pointless without the reasons and THE SCIENCE as to why.

[Timtheguru]

For fucks sake, here are some threads about it. All data that Scotty has collected. BTW, Whole milk is way better. :)

Summary is that the shear strength of redline sucks, that it eats syncros and destroys gearboxes.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post5236218

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...redline+syncro

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...redline+syncro

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...redline+syncro

[Charles.waite]

For fucks sake, here are some threads about it. All data that Scotty has collected. BTW, Whole milk is way better. :)

Summary is that the shear strength of redline sucks, that it eats syncros and destroys gearboxes.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post5236218

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...redline+syncro

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...redline+syncro

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...redline+syncro

Those aren't facts either. Just scotty saying redline sucks.

Read the PDF I posted above. you'll find Redline is middle to upper pack with its wear prevention characteristics. I've never bought a redline product in my life, and I probably won't but saying its the worst thing to put in your tranny is false and misleading.

Diagnosticator runs MTL in his tranny for christs sake. And I'm pretty sure he maintains his car meticulously...

[Timtheguru]

I think whole milk is the worst kind of milk. I heard a farmer say it once.

^^ Thats essentially what you said above. Now you are backtracking and saying you do your research and that others should to. Thats fine, but you offer no proof for your assertion other than a link to a post where the farmer stated he drank 2% and in his testing (whatever that may be) skim milk 1% and whole were inferior.

Theres no defiinition of what inferior might mean in that regard. Does it taste funny? Is it too thick? Too much fat and thus unhealthy? Or is it just that he's always drank 2% and thats just what he prefers?

See what I'm getting at? The myriad of Gear oil threads generally go along the same lines as Motor Oil threads. No proof just a bunch of he said she said and he's an expert so he must know.

Simply saying Whole Milk is the worst kind of milk is completely pointless without the reasons and THE SCIENCE as to why.

I never once backtracked... re-read everything that I have posted. I just didn't want to take the time to prove the point, I don't have to.. it would be ignorant of anyone not to look once I said that the data was there. Anyway... enough with this.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

I never claimed it was the best. I was simply putting out what we have available.

Anyways - facts wise, I could rattle off every piece of information found on the net which any sales person could do. But in my opinion, yes facts/statics are nice, but me as a consumer when I make a purchase, I consider other things than just facts/stats. Such as price - is it more expensive or less expensive than OEM fluid? Does it meet the same requirements as OEM fluid? To answer my own questions it is indeed less expensive than OEM fluid (which is nice since everyone likes to save money where they can) As far as requirements - it also meets or exceeds the requirements for Audi transmissions.

Something else I always consider is availability. If I need it, I can place an order for it, and not have to wait for it to come in when I am planning on doing the service over the weekend? It's a big plus if its always in stock. This for me is HUGE. I will gladly run a fluid that meets or exceeds the requirements that is readily available.


Redline fluid fits the bill it all three of the questions I ask as a consumer. I've run it previous vehicles - EVO 8, B5 A4, and my current B6 A4, I even ran it in my first car I ever bought (Ford Probe GT). I hardly like to push products I wouldn't personally use and trust.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Jason

[Charles.waite]

Scotty also gets called out in one of those threads with the exact same argument I just had and he has nothing other than "I've heard..." and "I've read...", etc.

I get it you hate ECS and Redline. Good for you. Show me empirical, unbiased data on this "sheer strength" issue with redline and I'll relent.

[Timtheguru]

I also never said you claimed it was the best, but that's the fluid you linked to an Audi forum.

My understanding is that the syncros in these transmissions are a little more delicate to the type of fluid that is used.

From the years of archive info on this site, and from the expertise of known good shops, why would you do the opposite?

For something as important as a "lifetime" fluid, cost should not be a consideration for something that is rarely changed.

[Timtheguru]

Scotty also gets called out in one of those threads with the exact same argument I just had and he has nothing other than "I've heard..." and "I've read...", etc.

I get it you hate ECS and Redline. Good for you. Show me empirical, unbiased data on this "sheer strength" issue with redline and I'll relent.

I knew you would say that, keep reading those threads.

You sure like to argue and prove points don't you. :)

Edit: Also, I would run Redline in my DSM any day of the week, because that's what is proven to work well for that car. (not going to re-research this again from 10 years ago for you)

ECS is fine.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

For something as important as a "lifetime" fluid, cost should not be a consideration for something that is rarely changed.

"Lifetime fluid" is a term Audi likes to throw around - take it with a grain of salt. Replacing the fluid every 40-50k really can't do any harm in a manual transmission - lets be honest a transmission consists of moving parts with tight tolerances. Metal particles will accumulate over time its good to replace that particle exposed fluid.

Automatic transmissions are a different story - well sort of. If you replace the fluid often it wont cause any harm. But if you replace it after 130k miles it could cause slipping issues since a lot of auto trans fluids have detergents in them which help with cleaning. A lot of the time the dirty fluid is what keeps the transmission from slipping, but replace it with new and bad things could happen.

I'll have to do more research on whether or not Audi syncros are delicate. Personally I haven't read anything but - I'll be sure to look into it.

Jason

[Timtheguru]

"Lifetime fluid" is a term Audi likes to throw around - take it with a grain of salt. Replacing the fluid every 40-50k really can't do any harm in a manual transmission - lets be honest a transmission consists of moving parts with tight tolerances. Metal particles will accumulate over time its good to replace that particle exposed fluid.

Automatic transmissions are a different story - well sort of. If you replace the fluid often it wont cause any harm. But if you replace it after 130k miles it could cause slipping issues since a lot of auto trans fluids have detergents in them which help with cleaning. A lot of the time the dirty fluid is what keeps the transmission from slipping, but replace it with new and bad things could happen.

I'll have to do more research on whether or not Audi syncros are delicate. Personally I haven't read anything but - I'll be sure to look into it.

Jason

I know, that's why I quoted "lifetime."

That's interesting about the A/T, I didn't know that, since I usually only drive manuals and hate A/Ts haha. Since I got my Tiptronic Avant I have been wanting to change the ATF, but I'll have to look into this more. Thanks!

[Scotty@Advanced]

Charles--

I don't recommend Redline, why because I've seen a disproportionate number of transmissions running Redline fluid come in with gear galling and burnt up syncros. There are also a couple published tests comparing a number of gear fluids and Redline scored one of the lowest in terms of shear strength, which supports the evidence I've seen. However that I will add, I am merely going off what I've seen and what my customers have told me, so that's open to analysis and interpretation, believe what you want and take it for what it's worth.

One big issue I have personally with Redline fluids is that they are recommended "For all manual transmissions using gear oil" however if you look at the factory specifications for the lubricant used in a BMW manual transmission (that uses gear oil), versus a honda transmission (that uses gear fluid) versus a VW/Audi transmission (that uses gear oil) the actual specifications (shear strength, viscosity, smoke point etc) are quite different. So I ask if the factory specifications (the OEM should know their product best) are so different how can one single fluid meet a series of totally different specifications?

As far as good fluids go, I highly stress Motul Gear 300, the factory fluid, or Titan Fuchs Sinto fluid, which is a direct cross to the factory fluid, and I happen to sell, because I feel it's the best fluid out there for these transmissions. AGAIN this is my opinion so take it or leave it.

As far as the lifetime fill comment, lifetime to an auto manufacturer generally is meant to be 100,000 miles or as long as the warranty period is, a fluid change costs ~$50.00 and a rebuilt transmission is ~$2000+ which costs less?

A safe recomendation is to change the fluid at least a 50,000 mile change interval, or 20,000 if the car is raced.

[Charles.waite]

Which redline fluid though?

Its already been established that there are fluids that do and don't meet GL-4 spec and shouldn't be run in an Audi Trans, but nobody ever seems to be specific with what fluid was run and why. Do you ask customers what brand they run, or what fluid specifically.

Its like putting in a conventional oil and developing a sludge problem, then swearing off that brand of oil because YOU put the wrong oil in. I'm not saying your experience is wrong, I just doubt that all Redline Fluids WILL cause damage as you seem to assert.

I'm not being argumentative to be an ass. I'm trying to get some actual info based on something other than conjecture and word of mouth. I posted a test done by Amsoil. Yes it only tests Redline 75w90 NOT MTL or MT-90, but it compares quite a few other oils. The Redline fares quite well in the shear tests.

Oh yea and ditto on the "lifetime" fluid. Its "great" for the lifetime of the tranny. When the tranny fails then the fluid is done. But yea the fluid clearly had no part to play in the failure of said tranny. Sweet reasoning Audi.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Scotty also gets called out in one of those threads with the exact same argument I just had and he has nothing other than "I've heard..." and "I've read...", etc.

http://www.oilteksolutions.com/GearLubeWhitePaper.pdf

A few excerpts regarding Redline 75W90

ASTM D-2893 test 22.35% viscosity change at 100c (the worst)
FAILED the new oil and used oil foam test -- As oil foams it's lubricity decreases as does many liquid properties (flow etc)

Came in #5 overall.

There are a few other published tests showing similar results if you care to Google past the first page. As far as the difference between MT90 and MTL and 75W90 I don't know let the chemists answer that one.

[Charles.waite]

^^ Thats the same PDF I posted above and I read the whole thing a few months back.

But I'll stick to not reading past the first page on google results...?

No need to get defensive...

I don't see how a foaming test that over half of the other gear oils failed too means Redline is the worst.

[Timtheguru]

Unfortunately the OEM fluid isn't tested in that article, but I bet it doesn't fail the same tests.

Thanks Scotty for chiming in.

Charles,

Don't see where he's being defensive, other than saying to look past the first page for other tests as well. Scotty is using excerpts from the article that you posted to show you that the info was there the whole time (I assume, I doubt he googled for that same exact test). Good luck!

[MikTip]

MOTUL Gear 300! FTW!

[old guy]

What he said ↑ Been running it for a few winters now and have no complaints.

[Charles.waite]

^^ Probably what I'm going to use anyway, haha.

I'm just curious why Redline is such an Audi Transmission killer...

[Timtheguru]

^^ Probably what I'm going to use anyway, haha.

I'm just curious why Redline is such an Audi Transmission killer...

Seriously? Shear strength for one....