Minimum to run K04's ?

[Dimcorner]

Ok so one of my turbos likes singing right now.

If I do end up popping in K04's, what is the least I can do to the car to just run it (don't need to be over stock HP)?

Reason is that I am going to do this in stages (wife is just starting school so I have to figure out the expenses plus the ginourmous loan she is about to take).

Can I do the K04 with no fueling on stock boost? Or maybe get a Stage 1 or 2 program and call it a day?

Keep in mind that right now my car is completely bone stock.

[tike0rz]

Yes. STFA for more information.

[Dr.Duct]

Im going to be nicer then normal..

You need the inlets, turbos, and a stgIII- Software..

Pm me and I can give you some more info on what, and who to go with if you want to do a budget build...

[Dimcorner]

Well, I have heard a few "you need a FPR" and some say that is ok.

What I wanted to know is short of the inlets and turbos, will the stock software limit the boost from the K04's or not. Is there a software for K04's installed on a stock motor with NOTHING done to it or can such animal not exist (need to get FPR).

I know that from my RX7 days you could run a single turbo on them but the boost would have to be 8psi or you blow the engine.

[Caddy7]

From what I hear you can just bult the K04's in if you are keeping stock performance.

Otherwise get a stage 3- = Chip, K04, 5 bar FPR.

[Dr.Duct]

From what I hear you can just bult the K04's in if you are keeping stock performance.

Otherwise get a stage 3- = Chip, K04, 5 bar FPR.

This will give you a little more then SgII+, but you got it.. 5 Bar FPR, ko4's, Inlets, Install Hardware, and Stg3- Software.. I was telling him in pm, you could really do all of this for no more then $2600 if you shop around the right way.. I did my Stg3++ with hybrids for right around $3100.00, but thats a little out of the norm

[JackalS4]

So is the 5-bar FPR factored into most Stage 3- software then i'm guessing?

[drewwynn]

So is the 5-bar FPR factored into most Stage 3- software then i'm guessing?

I'm not positive, but i'm pretty sure GIAC is the only tuner who has an "off the shelf" stage 3- tune. I know you can get custom tunes through shops like VAST.

Stage 3- is pretty uncommon, and vague. I've browsed just about everything I can on it over here and on AW so if you have any questions I'll try my best to answer.

[2ndEngineS4]

I ran pj KO4's with 2Bennett KO3 inlet pipes modified to fit KO4's on a APR 2+ tune for more than two years and had not a single problem. 15 psi, stock fueling.

www.2Bennett.com

I'm not saying that you should buy it from them, but at minimum, you can check the website to see what is required. The info that you need is at the bottom of the "B5 biturbo" tab.

[Iosilver]

I just got my hybrids installed, is the 3- file mod specific or should i have a tunner lemmi? I'm not planning on fueling.

[lrg8683]

you don't need a 3- file.. you just need the hardware, k04's and inlets, just make sure you don't intend on raising the boost.

[drewwynn]

you don't need a 3- file.. you just need the hardware, k04's and inlets, just make sure you don't intend on raising the boost.

Right, you will run leannnnnn.

[Nogaro_PhiDelt]

I ran pj KO4's with 2Bennett KO3 inlet pipes modified to fit KO4's on a APR 2+ tune for more than two years and had not a single problem. 15 psi, stock fueling.

www.2Bennett.com

I'm not saying that you should buy it from them, but at minimum, you can check the website to see what is required. The info that you need is at the bottom of the "B5 biturbo" tab.

ahh best post for me. If my turbos go, that where she's getting cut. 2B is VERY friendly and helpful.

[01svtL]

Will the RS4 intercoolers help the car make a little more power, more efficiently ... therefore being better for the stock KO3's?

[Trigger Happy]

Basically anything you do to the engine bay to make it cooler at running temps (I.E. fmic, smic, dps, etc.) will improve performance and increase reliability by stressing other components less due to lower temps.

So yes RS4 intercoolers will make alittle more power (about 25 hp? correct me if I'm wrong I've never seen a dyno of them for a stock turbo car) and allow your turbos to last alittle longer.

If all you want to do is replace your turbos with K04's and wait to upgrade all the other components that would put you to STG3 you can. All you need is KO4's and associated hardware. You will see a slight increase in HP because you will be running more efficient turbos, but other than that I do not believe you need anything else, unless you want more power.

If you want more power then you should upgrade to STG 3- which is everything but fueling. The cheapest thing you can do is gutted dp's, Darintake, and DV's. 10secs4 can also hook you up with a cheap STG3 kit and more information on budget builds. This is just information I've accumulated reading this forum.

[Dr.Duct]

This thread has ALOT of people who really just need to read up on thread's, geesh.

Why run the 2bennets when you can just get 034's inlets for cheap?? Honestly.. Just shop around.. you can do the turbos, downpipe, inlets, downpipes, injectors, hardware, maf, and tune for under or around 4k.. Its going to cost you nearly that much to buy OTS turbos, OTS inlets, Hardware, and OTS software.

PM me if you are SERIOUS about this and ill give you info.

Edit* NVM I dont want my inbox junked up...

As many people that are claiming to blow their ko4's..

Buy blown ko4's, Reasonable price is 600-700 for tem blown (both need to be rebuilt)

$600 each for the rebuild.. youve now spent about $1800 on the turbo's.

034 inlets

piggie pipes

[drewwynn]

This thread has ALOT of people who really just need to read up on thread's, geesh.

Why run the 2bennets when you can just get 034's inlets for cheap?? Honestly.. Just shop around.. you can do the turbos, downpipe, inlets, downpipes, injectors, hardware, maf, and tune for under or around 4k.. Its going to cost you nearly that much to buy OTS turbos, OTS inlets, Hardware, and OTS software.

PM me if you are SERIOUS about this and ill give you info.

Edit* NVM I dont want my inbox junked up...

As many people that are claiming to blow their ko4's..

Buy blown ko4's, Reasonable price is 600-700 for tem blown (both need to be rebuilt)

$600 each for the rebuild.. youve now spent about $1800 on the turbo's.

034 inlets

piggie pipes

Contact Marc at [email protected] for pricing on the fueling and software

Meh. I'm dealing with this same kind of thing right now. Its not quite that simple from my experience. First off, if you can't install the turbos yourself, that adds a significant cost. I understand thats an expense regardless of if he gets fueling or not. You will need supporting mods to be able to run fueling. Things like upgraded IC(s), upgraded clutch, piggies, exhaust?. Piggies would be free if you were doing the install yourself, but if it was at a shop, they would have to do it, and who knows if they would be willing. Also, you have to pay for the install of all these supporting mods as well. Granted, you save money putting a clutch in while the engine is out, but its still not cheap.

So realistically, adding fueling is more expensive than meets the eye. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you would be hard pressed to go from "completely bone stock", to stage 3 for $4000 in parts alone, and $5500-$6000 total with labor.

However, if you are getting k04s and can spring the extra money on a stage 3- tune and 5.0 bar FPR you can get away with stock clutch, if its in good condtion, and stock ICs.

[Dimcorner]

I was shooting for PJ K04's (plus inlets and gasket kit), clutch, and 034 motor mounts.
I was hoping to call it a day there because I don't want extra boost or power right now.
All the fuel and stuff can be added later on (along with new IC's).

I'm going to shoot Marc an email and see what's up, but right now I'm looking at the K04 options as a direct replacement for K03's AND keeping the same HP levels since I don't have any supporting mods.

On the install side I'm going to do it myself. I have pulled a RX7 TT engine out and installed it back before so the process should be fairly similar (except that now I have to take care of front shafts). On that car my friend and I put in a single turbo and just kept boost to 6-8psi to run all other things stock until all other stuff came in.

[Rajan147]

+1

do it right the first time or you'll just pay down the road.

The clutch is easier to do while the motor is out so dont get screwed on labor twice if your paying someone to do it, or you'll just pay them for a trans job later down the road($500-$800).

I would try to anticipate what you are going to do with the car so you can make the right decision. Daily driver with little to no mods or Stage 3 all the way.

Fueling is an easy add on, but i would with out question do the clutch, flywheel and piggies/downpipes while the care is apart, it just makes sense.

If you buy piggies for around $250-$300 and then sell your downpipes you'll come out only spending a $100 on piggies pipes if the shop doing the install wont tear out the pre-cats.

Ko4's - $2150-2500 - necessary if the weasel goes pop or be foolish and put a k03 in.
$1800+ for rebuilds
inlets- $350-450- necessary
Clutch disc+ rs4 pp: $500-800 - optional, but if going stage 3 in the future necessary
lwfw or dmfw: $150-500- resurface a must with new clutch or new flywheel
stage 3- Fueling setup: $500-800 - necessary or your car will run like shit

Stage 3
above parts with
more aggressive clutch disc
SMIC/FMIC -$400-1500
fueling- $1300+

The prices are broad because you can pick up stuff cheaper by piecing it together over time or when people are upgrading to different kits.

If i were in your position I would plan on running low boost(15<), mbc and some home brew ecu from the classifieds on your k04, do the clutch and piggies while the motor is out.

[xx_s4quattro_xx]

I was wondering can you pass smog with the stage 3-?

[2ndEngineS4]

This thread has ALOT of people who really just need to read up on thread's, geesh.

Why run the 2bennets when you can just get 034's inlets for cheap??

Read much, clown? Reread my post. I was not telling him to shop with them, I merely directed him to the website so that he could see the inlet pipes. Their pipes are the stock KO3 inlet pipes with an adapter welded on the end to allow them to mate to KO4 inlets. It doesn't get any cheaper than that seeing as how he already has KO3 inlet pipes and all he would need is some welding skill and the coupler. Worst case, he could punt and buy them from 2B for $350 ($50 cheaper than the 034 pipes). I'm just trying to be helpful. . . .why the f*ck are you here?


and remember to Woo-sah before you write back with your usual silly nonsense.

[2ndEngineS4]

I was wondering can you pass smog with the stage 3-?

No problems here. I just passed smog at Smog N' Go back in november.

[Dr.Duct]

Meh. I'm dealing with this same kind of thing right now. Its not quite that simple from my experience. First off, if you can't install the turbos yourself, that adds a significant cost. I understand thats an expense regardless of if he gets fueling or not. You will need supporting mods to be able to run fueling. Things like upgraded IC(s), upgraded clutch, piggies, exhaust?. Piggies would be free if you were doing the install yourself, but if it was at a shop, they would have to do it, and who knows if they would be willing. Also, you have to pay for the install of all these supporting mods as well. Granted, you save money putting a clutch in while the engine is out, but its still not cheap.

So realistically, adding fueling is more expensive than meets the eye. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you would be hard pressed to go from "completely bone stock", to stage 3 for $4000 in parts alone, and $5500-$6000 total with labor.

However, if you are getting k04s and can spring the extra money on a stage 3- tune and 5.0 bar FPR you can get away with stock clutch, if its in good condtion, and stock ICs.

You dont NEED intercoolers or even an exhaust.. You dont have to do anything, including fueling.. But might as well just save up the extra few hundred for the clutch, do the piggies with the motor out.. Contact people in your local forum.. Thiers always people willing to help.

[xx_s4quattro_xx]

Oh so thats cool then i was worried bout that.

[AMC]

$600 to rebuild a K04! wow......thats just crazy talk and you tell him to shop around? i got mine for 450 a pop, and why waste your money on a 5bar FPR when the stock 4bar is prefectly fine.

[JD797]

No problems here. I just passed smog at Smog N' Go back in november.

You can pass smog with test pipes??? or is this jsut for gutted precats? cuz im still deciding between test pipes and HFC's..

[Dimcorner]

See why searching forums didn't help much! ;)

Anyhow to recap all I have seen so far on this post..

1. Need turbos, inlet pipes (whichever ones).

2. Can do without fueling as long as you can program the ECU to keep the boost down.
- Or get a 5 bar FPR and reprogram with Stage 3-
- Or get the fueling kit for $1k plus and still have Stage 3- because missing IC's.

3. Might as well save up for clutch and DP's since motor is out. Also check the gaskets on the valve cover.

4. Marc can do magic and has a pact with el diablo because he can do anything on the ECU.

Sounds about right?

[The_Jerbel]

VAST certainly does offer an OTS stage 3- tune.

[The_Jerbel]

See why searching forums didn't help much! ;)

Anyhow to recap all I have seen so far on this post..

1. Need turbos, inlet pipes (whichever ones).

2. Can do without fueling as long as you can program the ECU to keep the boost down.
- Or get a 5 bar FPR and reprogram with Stage 3-
- Or get the fueling kit for $1k plus and still have Stage 3- because missing IC's.

3. Might as well save up for clutch and DP's since motor is out. Also check the gaskets on the valve cover.

4. Marc can do magic and has a pact with el diablo because he can do anything on the ECU.

Sounds about right?

Marc is banned here, and it is against forum rules to advertise for him.

I would get a MBC and a 5bar FPR and tweak your software with lemmiwinks until you can afford to do the fueling for full stage 3. Email me if you need anything.

[Dimcorner]

Can lemmiwinks run by itself on a Stock ECU?
Buy a VAG cable and get lemmiwinks or do you need something else in order to get lemmiwinks running?

[RudyH]

All you need is inlet pipes + K04s. IF you can affoard it, get the clutch done as well, it saved me $$ in labour in the long run.

You can run stock programming just fine, even Stage I, as the car will only build boost as specified, and dump the rest.

I would recommend though slowly building on that. Below is the order I am personaly going:

Stage III- ECU + FPR
Downpipes
Intercoolers
Exhaust

From there you have a safe Stage III-, until the bug hits you again and then get fueling.

[The_Jerbel]

You can run Lemmiwinks on your laptop. You just need a VAG cable and then download Lemmi for free. The ECU can run lemmi-tweaks without any other chip.

[Slow4]

Didn't feel like creating a new thread so I searched and I think I found my answer.

Quoted Dr. Duct for his post...

You dont NEED intercoolers or even an exhaust.. You dont have to do anything, including fueling.. But might as well just save up the extra few hundred for the clutch, do the piggies with the motor out.. Contact people in your local forum.. Thiers always people willing to help.

Here's my dilemna. This past weekend I went to get my turbo flanges/DP flange tightened because I have this horrible exhaust leak emitting from that area. I'm amazed that I had enough clearance to tighten it THAT much with the limited space I had...

Anywho, long story short I'm experiencing an exhaust leak where the flanges of the K03 and DPs meet. We tightened all 7 of the nuts, the 8th one couldn't be tightened because it seems to be stuck on the stud thread. We cant tighten anymore due to it being a little bent from it being mis-tightened by me @ 2am after my DP install. I want to be rid of my hissing exhaust leak and I figure this would be the good time to upgrade to K04s (replacing the 1 bent stud at the same time too).

According to Dr. Ducts post, I can do this task WITHOUT upgrading my stock ICs, yes?

[Dimcorner]

I'm about to plant K04's on a totally stock car first week of Dec. I'll let you know if it blows up. I'm probably going to do the piggies as well. Other than that, no ECU, no IC, no injectors.

[Bimmer2Audi]

What have you guys been getting quoted for labor on a K04 swap? I've been getting quotes for the past month...

[Daness373]

labor should be around $2250

[Das General]

If you guys are in the tri-state area. PM greg@SSP tuning / 2001S4NY

He does labor at a competitive price.