GIAC 2001 BT Software

[FrancoTheTanko]

I was looking at GIAC's website http://www.giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=265 and noticed they now sell software for BT's, up to GT30's. I know people have said that 2001's are nightmares for BT's but if their s/w works well, I can't see how they will be problems. I would love to upgrade to a BT (and get discounted s/w) but maybe next year when I finally get a job.


P.S. I couldn't find anything by searching so if this a re-post, shoot me in the foot and call me sally (or however that saying goes). lol

[GramCracker]

Thats a really good move on GIAC's part IMO. Before it was all custom tuning.

[sean1.8t]

I know people have said that 2001's are nightmares for BT's

this was true in the past. but the last 6 months, there has been a lot of progression as far as tuning for the 2001's.

this is another great leap!

miss my 2001

[gotaudi]

yeah the 2001 is imo the best to get (of the B5's) to get a BT chip tune. you have so many options in terms of tuning. you can get ots tuning up to a GT30XX you can either have a MAF or MAF less tune (which is great for the larger turbos and some of the mani's)


If you want some info on the tune contact Austin@GIAC he will let you know what it is all about.

[FrancoTheTanko]

you can get ots tuning up to a GT30XX you can either have a MAF or MAF less tune (which is great for the larger turbos and some of the mani's).

That's pretty freakin' sweet! And is his email address [email protected]?

[Richard]

I have been reading quite a bit about the OCT tuning and have been impressed. It is nice to see GIAC getting into the higher end turbo market. Their numbers have always impressed me, as have their prices.

[Seerlah]

I am no expert, but the site says a "GT28R71 to a mild GT30R turbo". For the GT30 tune to be able to push hp gains as one might expect from dishing out dough for the set up to begin with, would not one need more fuel. I would expect a tune with 630cc injectors as compared to what the GIAC calls for with 580cc. But I am more than sure the GT2871r tune should be well put together. Just seems that the "mild" tune for a GT30 is not what people whom want that extra kick is looking for.

[gotaudi]

I am no expert, but the site says a "GT28R71 to a mild GT30R turbo". For the GT30 tune to be able to push hp gains as one might expect from dishing out dough for the set up to begin with, would not one need more fuel. I would expect a tune with 630cc injectors as compared to what the GIAC calls for with 580cc. But I am more than sure the GT2871r tune should be well put together. Just seems that the "mild" tune for a GT30 is not what people whom want that extra kick is looking for.

If I were to go with a GT30xx turbo, I wouldnt go with GIAC (Sorry GIAC) I would choose Unitronic or CTapp on that one...

[Devious27t]

If I were to go with a GT30xx turbo, I wouldnt go with GIAC (Sorry GIAC) I would choose Unitronic or CTapp on that one...

I guess you will have to get a ride in my avant when I am done with it. Let me say I am sorry for proving you wrong now

[Devious27t]

That's pretty freakin' sweet! And is his email address [email protected]?

Correct.

[Devious27t]

I am no expert, but the site says a "GT28R71 to a mild GT30R turbo". For the GT30 tune to be able to push hp gains as one might expect from dishing out dough for the set up to begin with, would not one need more fuel. I would expect a tune with 630cc injectors as compared to what the GIAC calls for with 580cc. But I am more than sure the GT2871r tune should be well put together. Just seems that the "mild" tune for a GT30 is not what people whom want that extra kick is looking for.

Care to share why you feel that way? Any info showing that IDC's max out on the 580's? Or is this just speculation?

[HOFFY11]

call giac and see what they can do price wise..they were really good in the customer service department when i needed them for my broken chip..its worth a ttry

[Seerlah]

Care to share why you feel that way? Any info showing that IDC's max out on the 580's? Or is this just speculation?

Just speculations. As I said, I am no expert. But as far as I know, one would need more fuel for more power. Say one was to get a GT3082r on a built 2.0. Could one maximise a 600chp turbo with 580cc injectors? <<<<<not a debate, a real inquiry.

Don't get me wrong, I know GIAC to be one of the best aftermarket providers for the Audi/VW. But this seems that GIAC is just startin go indulge in off the shelf tunes for BATs besides custom tunes which GIAC is always good for. From my understanding, other companies have done intense testing to get thier tunes right to be able to sell them as off the shelf and not have people spend so much money on custom tunes. I would think maybe GIAC would have to test thier tunes on different car set ups to be able to compete in the GT30 range, and if they did so could be a great competetor for Unitronics or CTapp. But for the GT2871r, I am more than sure the GIAC tune will be top notch.

Once again, I am no expert. But it just seems logically correct.

[Don Supreme]

Care to share why you feel that way? Any info showing that IDC's max out on the 580's? Or is this just speculation?

So you think 580s can SAFELY support 400 AWHP on pump gas? I doubt it.

I've compiled the theoretical HP numbers that common sized injectors can support. There are 4 variables:

Injector flow rating: amount of fuel an injector can flow at 100% duty cycle (wide open) at a specified pressure (3 bar is assumed)

Relative fuel pressure at injector: The fuel pressure the system is set to minus any effects from boost or vacuum.

Duty cycle: the percentage time the ecu signals the injector to be open. Depending on which injectors and who you ask, maximum should be less than 80 or 90%.

Brake Specific Fuel Consumption: the amount of fuel the engine burns to make one (crank)horsepower for 1 hour in pounds/hour. This is the "unknown" variable. I have included values form .45 (really, really excellent) to .60 (mediocre). I don't believe any value lower than .45 for a 1.8T, BUT some people would disagree with that.

There is no question that the equation from which these values are calculated is accurate. (HP= Injector Flow*Duty Cycle*# injectors/BSFC) What can be questioned are the variables- what is actual fuel pressure? Do the injectors really flow at their rating? What is the actual BSFC? The only one we can be completely sure of is the number of injectors. Fuel pressure is pretty certain.
Injector flow is less so: people may be surprised how much injectors can vary from rated flow.
BSFC: the only guide here is we have here is similar engines where this is actually measured on an engine dyno. In my OPINION, the farther you get from stock (the more HP), the higher this number is likely to be.


Injector size: 580cc (55lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 3 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 391.11 HP
85% 415.56 HP
90% 440 HP
95% 464.44 HP
100% 488.89 HP

BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 352 HP
85% 374 HP
90% 396 HP
95% 418 HP
100% 440 HP

BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 320 HP
85% 340 HP
90% 360 HP
95% 380 HP
100% 400 HP

BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 293.33 HP
85% 311.67 HP
90% 330 HP
95% 348.33 HP
100% 366.67 HP

Injector size: 580cc (55lb Hr)

Fuel Pressure 4 Bar
BSFC .45

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 452.98 HP
85% 481.29 HP
90% 509.6 HP
95% 537.91 HP
100% 566.22 HP

BSFC .50

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 407.68 HP
85% 433.16 HP
90% 458.64 HP
95% 484.12 HP
100% 509.6 HP

BSFC .55

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 370.62 HP
85% 393.78 HP
90% 416.95 HP
95% 440.11 HP
100% 463.27 HP

BSFC .60

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 339.73 HP
85% 360.97 HP
90% 382.2 HP
95% 403.43 HP
100% 424.67 HP


60 lb/hr
3bar FP

.45 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 426.67 HP
85% 453.33 HP
90% 480 HP
95% 506.67 HP
100% 533.33 HP

.50 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 384 HP
85% 408 HP
90% 432 HP
95% 456 HP
100% 480 HP

.55 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 349.09 HP
85% 370.91 HP
90% 392.73 HP
95% 414.55 HP
100% 436.36 HP

.6 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 320 HP
85% 340 HP
90% 360 HP
95% 380 HP
100% 400 HP

4 bar
.45 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 498.49 HP
85% 529.64 HP
90% 560.8 HP
95% 591.96 HP
100% 623.11 HP


.50 BSFC
Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 448.64 HP
85% 476.68 HP
90% 504.72 HP
95% 532.76 HP
100% 560.8 HP

.55 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 407.85 HP
85% 433.35 HP
90% 458.84 HP
95% 484.33 HP
100% 509.82 HP

.60 BSFC

Duty Cyle Max HP @ Duty Cycle
80% 373.87 HP
85% 397.23 HP
90% 420.6 HP
95% 443.97 HP
100% 467.33 HP




Modified by bobqzzi at 9:36 AM 3-30-2006

[gotaudi]

I guess you will have to get a ride in my avant when I am done with it. Let me say I am sorry for proving you wrong now

Maybe you will have to prove me wrong ... I think it is normal for someone to be skeptical. when I think of Unitronic and CTapp you think of cars tuned with big turbos making a generous amount of power... GIAC was just too busy working on other things, But its better late than never right...

[Devious27t]

So you think 580s can SAFELY support 400 AWHP on pump gas? I doubt it.

FWIW "smaller" 30's, IE 3071R's or even 2871R's will not support that powerlevel "safely" on pump gas (especially 91) on what I would call a "real" dyno (DD or properly calibrated mustang). I am not one for using speculated data so I would rather use actual testing before jumping to any conclusions.

Do you have any logs of 580s on an actual 1.8T making 400whp? I am all for discussing these things, but don't really get off on the speculation tip as it tends to make the discussions turn in to a pissing contest with no real learning going on.

I will run 580's at 5 bar with an 044 with my 3076R and will be more than happy to share my fueling logs (vag-com and zeitronix WB) with everyone when the setup is complete. We will see if they will make it to 8500

[Devious27t]

Maybe you will have to prove me wrong ... I think it is normal for someone to be skeptical. when I think of Unitronic and CTapp you think of cars tuned with big turbos making a generous amount of power... GIAC was just too busy working on other things, But its better late than never right...

There were previous ties that prevented further development of new BT software. It was not a matter of being too busy. There was plenty of big hp development in the 1.8T area with transverse engines with Del Rio, though.

[Don Supreme]

FWIW "smaller" 30's, IE 3071R's or even 2871R's will not support that powerlevel "safely" on pump gas (especially 91) on what I would call a "real" dyno (DD or properly calibrated mustang). I am not one for using speculated data so I would rather use actual testing before jumping to any conclusions.

Do you have any logs of 580s on an actual 1.8T making 400whp? I am all for discussing these things, but don't really get off on the speculation tip as it tends to make the discussions turn in to a pissing contest with no real learning going on.

I will run 580's at 5 bar with an 044 with my 3076R and will be more than happy to share my fueling logs (vag-com and zeitronix WB) with everyone when the setup is complete. We will see if they will make it to 8500

5 bar (base)...... Thats quite a bit of fuel pressure..... Please let us know when its done.

[mike-2ptzero]

FWIW "smaller" 30's, IE 3071R's or even 2871R's will not support that powerlevel "safely" on pump gas (especially 91) on what I would call a "real" dyno (DD or properly calibrated mustang). I am not one for using speculated data so I would rather use actual testing before jumping to any conclusions.

Do you have any logs of 580s on an actual 1.8T making 400whp? I am all for discussing these things, but don't really get off on the speculation tip as it tends to make the discussions turn in to a pissing contest with no real learning going on.

I will run 580's at 5 bar with an 044 with my 3076R and will be more than happy to share my fueling logs (vag-com and zeitronix WB) with everyone when the setup is complete. We will see if they will make it to 8500

5 bar, ouch.

I dont like pushing mine even close to 4 bar to get more fuel from my 1000cc injectors. Just more fuel being moved by the pump at 3 bar compared to 4 bar and would hate to see the #'s at 5 bar.

[gotaudi]

yeah imo 5 bar is a lot... too much? idk, but that is why they make larger injectors. why would you bump up the fuel pressure if you could just go up in size with the injector?

[Devious27t]

5 bar, ouch.

I dont like pushing mine even close to 4 bar to get more fuel from my 1000cc injectors. Just more fuel being moved by the pump at 3 bar compared to 4 bar and would hate to see the #'s at 5 bar.

*sigh* I expected better from you Mike. Hit me up on aim if you want to chat about it.

[mike-2ptzero]

Well I still like running 3 bar then 4 or 5 bar. since I run 32psi. So with a 3 bar I am pushing fuel pressure of 75psi, no way I could see myself doing that at 5 bar since it would put me at 104.5psi.

[bassed]

I guess you will have to get a ride in my avant when I am done with it. Let me say I am sorry for proving you wrong now

When you beat my most recent CAPS and have something for my setup I'd be happy to trial and compare against UNi or CT.

[sean1.8t]

what's your most recent CAPS time?

you do know that CAPS are more of a tuning guide for yourself than a penis ruler

[mike-2ptzero]

what's your most recent CAPS time?

you do know that CAPS are more of a tuning guide for yourself than a penis ruler

he made another thread, but it was 4.013.

[maxspeed]

what's your most recent CAPS time?

you do know that CAPS are more of a tuning guide for yourself than a penis ruler

caps are absolutley a gauge of cock size, the lower the caps, the smaller the dick

j/p

[sean1.8t]

lol!

[bassed]

what's your most recent CAPS time?

you do know that CAPS are more of a tuning guide for yourself than a penis ruler

I had no IDEA Sean, Im the noobs noob what's logging and Vag Scope? FWIW I've kept a pretty complete database of logs and codes since day one of this motor. I've adjusted things and been back on the rollers at UNI for a revisit. I've brought the CAPS time down more and more with all the little tweaks to the car more so than the tune.