Best Year for Daily Driver Build

[fshowcars]

Hello Everyone,

I am in the market for a newer Audi... I currently have an Audi 80 with a 10v turbo swap. I would like to retire this project for a 1.8t project. I feel that my path for this car would be something around the 300whp range. I have ambitions on getting a car, pulling the motor, swapping rods and rings, cleaning it up and throwing a turbo at it. I feel as though the aftermarket install and tuning is no big deal, as i have options there... What I need is insight into the best model and year to look for.

I have been narrowing my search to the 97 / 98 a4 years... this way I have the AEB motor and the drive by wire throttle body (would be nice for standalone in the cars future).

Is there anything I should look out for? Should I try to get one year over another?

What power range is the transmission and drivetrain good for? What is the best clutch setup for holding and using some power?

Some direction and insight on the year of a4 and transmission setup would be great!

Thanks

[docurley]

I think you mean NDBW as DBW means it as an electronic TB.

Anyways I would say if you want to put down 300whp then Quattro should be added to the options matted to a Southbend Stage IV+ the year is irrelevant for the Quattro trans as it changed very little but another option is to swap the 1.8T box out for the 2.8 it more or less a straight swap and I understand you get better gearing.

For the turbo side of things I will let the BT guys step in as they will know what is your best options here but I would think you are looking at a GT30 may be GT35 turbo with a set of rods (Scat are regarded as cheap more than up to the job).

[t1demont1]

hey man, welcome.

The AEB was used in the a4 from 97-99.5. This is the strongest motor from the factory, capable of about 330whp before you need rods. This has been the ideal motor to build for a while, until recently when tuners finally figured out tuning on the 01-01.5 motor, allowing for a maf-less tune, and giving the user the ability to adjust the tune him/herself.

The tranny can handle more power than your planning on running. Mike Hood runs a stock 1.8t tranny on his 600+whp drag a4. However if your tranny does go out, look for a 00-01 tranny as they seem to be built stronger. Also, like docurley stated, the 2.8 transmission is a direct swap and has longer gears.

As for clutch setups, Southbend is the way to go. The Stage 4 will hold the power very well, but if you plan on launching get the Stage 5 because many people have melted the stage 4 clutch to the flywheel from launches (I believe its the organic material that causes this)

For 300whp you could use a gt2871r and achieve those numbers

[fshowcars]

thanks guys... exactly the info i needed.

so... yeah, i obviously meant NON-dbw...

questions to follow up:

1. so any 97 - 99.5 A4 1.8t will be an AEB?

2. i heard some have maf / map and some just map... i see you indicated they are 01/01.5... is this desirable for any reason?

I see you, t1demont1, run tapp which is an option of mine. I feel that this will be totally suitable until I feel the need or desire to go full standalone. I think I was going to go with a gt35r or something of the size... i want the 300ish whp for daily driving and winter... i'd like to have something in there capable of more.

I'm not sure if I trust scat rods... i guess? either way I do plan on throwing in rods and some total seal rings.

I do plan on 'launching' the car for drag racing and for fun! lol... so i'd like to man up on the clutch up front rather than have issues... i'll check out southbend stage V

[VTAudiA4]

If possible try to find a 99.5 A4. 99.5-01.5 are the facelift models and come with 1 piece headlights, newer taillights, upgraded interior, and bunch more. But the 99.5 still retains the AEB engine.

[fshowcars]

How would an idiot like myself identify the 99.5? lol... i guess if i'm in person i can check the engine ear to see the AEB stamp, maybe if it has a throttle cable and the new style headlights?

[t1demont1]

Heres how to tell external differenced http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/a4/diff/
Btw a gt35r will talk a good amount of time to spool on a 1.8t and blow your 300whp goal out of the water. If you go with a 3071r, you should be able to achieve at least 350whp with a relatively nice spool. I dont know why people dont trust scat rods with so many people running them.

[fshowcars]

Thanks for the link! Perfect.

I feel that the gt35r might be on the bigger side, but I have a gt30/40 on my 2.0 drag car and I would say that it spools 'earlier' than i expected... i do understand where you are coming from and get it... I feel that my goal is rather in teh 400whp mark but i understand that will be less than logical on a winter / daily car. maybe a 30r or my 30/40 would make sense on here... regardless i'm not all that concerned with the turbo yet... i want to make sure i have the right platform to start with.

I don't really not like scat for any reason other that I've never run their products to have an opinion good or bad. I have an aircooled and scat has been around for ever, so i'm not skeptical, just never ran them.

how do you guys like your a4's...? Is this a car that would daily drivable and fun to drive? I have a 2002 gti 1.8t that i could simply dump this money and parts into... but I feel that the audi with awd might make more sense... i'm not all about going to a sedan, but can live if its' fun to drive. What do you guys think?

[t1demont1]

I love my car, and i belive a lot on here would. Many people have big turbos and daily drive them on this platform. its fast and handles amazingly with some suspension and h-sport swaybars. are you plans to go 2.0 on this car, or maybe a built head at all later on?

[fshowcars]

I don't think so, but i guess you never know! I want this car for a daily driver... so I don't think the game plan will be to go balls to the wall, but i suppose you never know! If this ends up making more sense of a drag car than a daily, i'll make the move later down the line. For now i just want a fun car to drive in rainy weather and during winter! I have a drag car and a fun summer car...

My biggest thing is just making sure I like the platform... I already have the 1.8t and just want to be sure that going AWD is the right choice... I have a fwd drag car and am going to be getting rid of my only AWD ever, to which i barely ever drove... so i'm not sure how a car handles with all the power.

[speedydragon]

How would an idiot like myself identify the 99.5? lol... i guess if i'm in person i can check the engine ear to see the AEB stamp, maybe if it has a throttle cable and the new style headlights?

the easiest way to identify a 99.5 is to look under the hood for a nDBW engine coupled with one peice projector headlights and fogs on the front bumper.

[BONFIRE074]

i usually check in the interior to see if it has the older style head unit, the audi concert

[pipe7284]

like said by t1demont1, the strongest engines are on the AEB.

My plans are 400 awhp as well. I rebuild the bottom with scat rods. head is staying stock for right now until i can get more funds to build the head. I am going with a gt3076r aka gt30r which is capable of flowing up to 550 hp. But i know with a 1.8 i will not flow that much. but i know that in the future my plans are to go 2.0.

I love my b5 would not change it in the worl for something else.

[fshowcars]

maybe we can stay in touch... i'm trying to find a car... i found a small port 2000 but want to stay away from those if i can... i was told that teh aeb is MAF only so it's pretty important as far as the tuning goes... so you have to upgrade and finangle (make work) an inlet on the turbo to get the maf in working order... anyway, no biggie i guess? right?

also, do we think the southbend stageV will be too much for trying to drive in the winter / rain? is engagement intense on it, or will it allow you to get into gear without shocking the drive train?

I will be going with a very similar turbo... i'm looking at gt30r's 30/40's 30/76's and 35s

I was told that I might want to consider diffs? can anyone speak to that?

thanks!

[fshowcars]

Is there any reason why an avant would cause me any issues? Anything different on them between the years that will make or break me? I am going to look at a 99.5 avant. Thanks!

[gotaudi]

maybe we can stay in touch... i'm trying to find a car... i found a small port 2000 but want to stay away from those if i can... i was told that teh aeb is MAF only so it's pretty important as far as the tuning goes...

IMO the DBW cars are the best to go BT (just for shear MAF less tune, and stock wideband) why would you want to keep a sensor in your car that fails way too often? also if you go with one of the larger turbos with an AEB (requires a MAF unless you go for standalone) CTapp is the only one who uses a 4" MAF, unitronic uses a 3" which is small for a a larger turbo...

[njm23]

Uhh, 2000 dont have a MAf-less tune. That is 2001... I wish it was for a 2000.

[sean1.8t]

The AEB was used in the a4 from 97-99.5. This is the strongest motor from the factory, capable of about 330whp before you need rods.

there is not real tangible proof that the AEB is stronger than the others(ATW, AWM, AMB, etc..). it has 1mm larger wrist pins, yes, but when have you ever seen a rod failure in the later 20v motors happen due to the smaller 19mm pins?... never.

the only thing that the AEB has an advantage on is the higher flow head. but that is really only going to help you when going gt30 and above. the higher velocity small port heads are great for mid size 28 series turbo's..

and the biggest thing, DBW > nDBW when dealing with stock ECU tuning. there is no comparison anymore. hardware can be changed. the ecu can't

[iin10ded]

agreed, the dbw car's use a stock wb02 and more sophisticated ecu, which make tuning more forgiving. the Ndbw [drive by cable] cars run off the maps, they're a little 'dumber'.

[sean1.8t]

agreed, the dbw car's use a stock wb02 and more sophisticated ecu, which make tuning more forgiving. the dbw cars run off the maps, they're a little 'dumber'.

that didn't make any sense?

you just called the dbw cars better.

but then "dumber"

[iin10ded]

whoops! edited. thanks. i no type-a so good-a!

[djwimbo]

Prefeacelift AEB. Higher flowing head, simple and numerous.

Facelift car: Go 2001. MAF-less tunes are pretty cool, and I'm jealous of them. The 06A Blocks are nice too.

Smart ECU vs Dumb ECU? Aren't they both Motronic Ecu's? Last I checked they were as close to a SEM as possible w/o spending the $$.

[sean1.8t]

^ME5 vs ME7.

ME7 can be tricky and have a mind of it's own sometimes. but with new advances in software as of late, they can be monitored and controled much easier

whoops! edited. thanks. i no type-a so good-a!

haha, closer.

but the nDBW cars don't have map sensors(running a map sensor is what allows you to run mafless, in conjunction with wbo2). the dbw cars run maps

[ILoveT]

^ME5 vs ME7.

ME7 can be tricky and have a mind of it's own sometimes. but with new advances in software as of late, they can be monitored and controled much easier



haha, closer.

but the nDBW cars don't have map sensors(this allows you to run mafless in conjunction with wbo2). the dbw cars run maps

What? I thought nDBW could NOT run MAFless, only the 00's or 01's or something... WTF MATE?

[djwimbo]

Show me a quality tune that'll actually make power for a nDBW car that's MAF-less and you have yourself a customer.

The MAF-less files are for engines that run both the MAF and MAP. AFAIK you absolutely need one of the two, the second is really just a failsafe/checksum.

nDBW cars have to keep the MAF's, DBW 2001/01.5 can use MAF-less, not sure about 2000's

[sean1.8t]

What? I thought nDBW could NOT run MAFless, only the 00's or 01's or something... WTF MATE?

sorry, the way i wrote it was confusing. what i wrote in parenthasis was referring to using a map. i'll edit

[fshowcars]

Guys... i think i've decided to go 01ish to try to take advantage of the DBW tuning the is out there... I doubt this car will ever be my full blown drag car, and if so, i'll be happy to convert it to cable...

my issue is now telling myself to go out and buy an a4 and do this work... as opposed to buying a pretty much stock s4, maintaining it and driving it.

thoughts? :)

[t1demont1]

BAT a4s blow s4s away until the s4 is a stg3. If i could, id go 01. Build the bottom end and throw a AEB head on her with a gt30 or higher and youll be happy

[iin10ded]

i think the 01 is a great call. there are tons of nice cars out there cheap. the s4 is a different beast. think of it as a 4door gt car - luxury and performance. nicer interior, it feels like a much nicer car than the a4. the a4 is lighter, much cheaper to maintain [turbo swap on the s4 means pulling the motor] and also cheaper to insure [it was a huge difference when i last ran the #'s].

if you want a car you plan to do extensive mods and DIY then i'd say go a4. modding the s4 and/or having the work done will make you vy poor.

if i were to do the a4 over i'd get an s4, and just do the easy stuff. i've got 5 friends with b5s4's from stock to having the stasis catalog thrown at them and a mildly modded s is a really brilliant do it all car. and you can save a few$ on insurance if you get an avant.

[317ssayzarc]

Guys... i think i've decided to go 01ish to try to take advantage of the DBW tuning the is out there... I doubt this car will ever be my full blown drag car, and if so, i'll be happy to convert it to cable...

my issue is now telling myself to go out and buy an a4 and do this work... as opposed to buying a pretty much stock s4, maintaining it and driving it.

thoughts? :)

have a sn on vortex?