APRstage3 How much am I really looking at???

[AquattroZ]

Hey guys. I've had my Audi for a few months now and have done a few minor things to it (suspension). I used to drive a tuned up RSX-S and getting into the audi has me wanting more. The torque is great and shows the potential of a turbo (my first turbo car) but the power in this car is pathetic. Comparing the two cars i ridiculous but I just brought it up to make clear that i'm used to running mid/low 14's. I was going to get into a stage1+ setup and I still might. I'm wondering though, should I hold out and go straight to a stage 3. I'm pretty serious about this and realistically going to stage up within the next 3 months or so (stage 3) What I'm really interested in is how much guys have spent on their APR stage3 setups. I'm set on APR as they seem to be the most reliable (publicly) and their system seems pretty straight forward. If you guys don't mind, it'd be great if you could list approx what you spent on your setups after everything.

Looking at: APR kit,fmic,dv,coilpacks,exhaust,clutch,brakes, etc...

What have you guys gone through and put into your cars to make them a reliable and well rounded APR A4?....

[430hps4]

I had a PC16 setup in my B5 A4, and I liked it. It was based off a K04 turbo, larger injectors, and a FMIC. I drove another A4 with a GT28RS setup, and it was a nice kick in the pants, but... I liked the quicker spooling of the K04.

What year is your A4? That will help most people give you advice on what to look at.

If you are already considering something as hefty as a stage 3 setup from APR, swing over to Eurojet in Tempe. They offer Revo and Unitronics tuning, and can set you up with a really nice turbo setup. Awesome fabrication skills, and great guys to sit down and talk with about your options.

EvoMS is also in Tempe. My personal feeling, they really don't cater to Audi's anymore. Their time and money is dumped into Porsche development, and and some of the newer VWs. But, if you are a B5 or B6 1.8T, you may want to look elsewhere.

All in all, I think you can get a better bang for the buck than ANYTHING APR can offer. Do some research on Vast Performance, JHM, Eurojet, maybe even AWE if you want something quick/easy and off the shelf.

Just my two cents...

Also... feel free to join www.azaudi.org.

Wealth of knowledge and support, and LOCAL!!!

[B6driver]

here are your expenses in a nutshell:

APR kit $5000+
IC kit $1000+
Exhaust $1000
clutch $800
labor $800 or diy (based on 8 hours)

[AquattroZ]

Thx for the input guys. I've done some searching on the sight and haven't seen too many people include what sort of brake upgrades they've been doing along with stage3 and how much they're spending. I know the car will obviously be a lot better and more complete with upgraded brakes but I'm wondering if the factory stuff will be sufficient. I'm not autocrossing and what not, my car is a daily driver. In addition has anyone upgraded to APR's differential? I guess I'm looking for someone who has done a complete APRstage3 setup (suspension,brakes,differential,supporting mods, etc...). I watched the APR/Stasis build from the speed channel and was sold on their setup. I know it's costly but I want a solid, well engineered audi with performance and reliability. Has anyone followed through with such a setup and if so, how much did you end up spending after all was said and done? I understand that the prices are all out there and I have done some calculations but I'm just wondering how much others have spent (used kits and other parts?...) I'm going to do all of the labor myself so that price will not be a factor. Thanks guys, appreciate the input

[rxrep]

You could by without a true brake upgrade other than pads and fluid if you're not planning to ever track.
I've spent enough to have just bought a track specific car... what was I thinking, lol?
All in all though, it is what you make it. Click on sig stuff to see my mod list. It can get pricey. But to me it's worth it. I love my car and it is most fun beating up on Mustangs and American V8's.
You're going to get vague answers because you have so many options.

[Maverick]

those factory mushroom brakes are not sufficient. after your APR Stage 3 install, you want and will go faster than stock, how the hell are you going to stop then?
the cheapest upgrade would be B5S4 front, but most would skip this step. simply go to big brake kit with brands such as Brembo/Stoptec/Stasis Alcon. there might be a GB for this.
by the way, a front BBK new would be more than $2000.

[Maverick]

Lee, what you said about brakes are true, but I am afraid the OP wil find the happy pedal more enjoyable so he is speeding more. Speeding Tickets are never good.

[GTMRS4]

The cost for the APR kit can be justified because it is a solid setup. However, you should consider if you want to do further tuning since the kit is "conservative" in comparison to the rest. Both Lee and I have been tinkering with our setups and love it.

Pricing:
ER Sport FMIC: 1000
APR Kit: 4799 if bought during a promo
Turbo Back Exhaust: 1000
Brakes: S4 upgrade 250ish / BBK 1600 if stoptech
Suspension: 1000

[Papachristou]

several have mentioned it but ive spent about $6k to do all my supporting mods ready for a BT kit (APR 3+ or ATP/REVO kit) this includes the following:

clutch $650 (southbend FE SS) installed myself $50 in random bolts, beer and stuff
neuspeed exhaust $850
racetec FMIC $850
JHM SS $250
034 motor/tranny mounts/apikol snub $275
stasis 4:1 differential (will be much more fun when i have BT power) $485
new timing belt kit $250 + $10 beer
stasis coilovers $800 (cheap at the time )
podi boost gauge $200
upgraded 3.0 brakes, SS lines, motul fluid $1000
hitachi coilpacks $130




and a piece of advice, if you want more than a high 14 second car, dont even spend the $ for 1+ just do your supporting mods and then BT kit last...

check on the ATP/REVO kit as well because you will never get even half the money you pay for the APR kit back because they are so picky about their software... they pretty much DO NOT want to to sell your kit used. i wouldnt be confident in allowing them to remove a chip from someones old ECU and soder it in to mine, they were quite hateful about it...


also if you ever want MORE than a standard 3+ (gt28rs) apr doesnt offer a whole lot, i know they have some custom 2.0 flashes, but maybe someone else who has inquired will acutally know.. whereas REVO offers flashes for built 2.0s, higher rev limiters, gt30 series flashes and more..

sooooo by the time you are completely done, with suspension, brakes, goodies here and there, probably need (if you DIY everything)$12-15k and like Lee always says, it wont be the fastest but you can beat 98% of the cars on the road, and walk an s4 with ease, out brake and outhandle one as well...

[Maverick]

lol

^^^ words of wisdom :)

[Papachristou]

why u laughing at me its true! i should have just found a nice bimmer and souped it up, ive got so much money in mine and a hemi dodge truck walks me with ease but i do love that i can outhandle just about any car on the road, especially in traffic.... and i did a u turn in the dry this weekend and it got it pretty sideways to my amazment (thanks to that 4:1 diff)

and i did walk a cobalt SS on the interstate this weekend (thank GOD, i think i would have cried if he edged me out ) i also turned inside of a v6 eclipe i was messing with... he had a amazed look as i turned a few lanes inside of him!

[Maverick]

because you said the exact same to me before, words of wisdom, remember?
your post in #9 is words of wisdom, that's why.
don't worry about the Dodge Hemi, it will always be a truck, never handles like your A4

[Papachristou]

thanks Mav, i feel better now that damn hundayi sonota v6 though

[widgget]

Never again will i deal with APR, WAY overpriced crap! go REVO and you will be happy.

[rxrep]

Lee, what you said about brakes are true, but I am afraid the OP wil find the happy pedal more enjoyable so he is speeding more. Speeding Tickets are never good.

I'd bet cash that the average user will not tell the difference between good fluid, pads, and rotors on a stock set up, and a BBK.... for a few high speed stops. I'm not talking continuous like at a track. And I'm saying that if you could blindfold them getting in to the car, they'd never know what the brakes were for a few spirited stops if they didn't see them first.
I'd also bet that most people with a BBK never really use it for the way it was designed.

like Lee always says, it wont be the fastest but you can beat 98% of the cars on the road, and walk an s4 with ease, out brake and outhandle one as well...

To set the record straight, I don't recall saying I'd walk an S4 with ease. That isn't the case. Lot of factors going in to that equation.

[Papachristou]

yes, it does irk me that they wont give me credit for my software ive already purchased from them...

and lee is pretty accurate with that, my 3.0 brakes ( i wouldnt pay retail for them again) but they resist fade much more

[dougyfresh]

those factory mushroom brakes are not sufficient. after your APR Stage 3 install, you want and will go faster than stock, how the hell are you going to stop then?
the cheapest upgrade would be B5S4 front, but most would skip this step. simply go to big brake kit with brands such as Brembo/Stoptec/Stasis Alcon. there might be a GB for this.
by the way, a front BBK new would be more than $2000.

Very true. I have B5 S4 brakes and they are prefect for the power I'm making. Stops the car very well for the $200 I spent on them. Highly recommended as a minimum for brakes when going BT.




FWIW: I have about $10k into my car including a built engine and all the supporting go/stop mods for a BT. I also did everything myself (minus actual engine internal assembly) so I saved a ton on labor.

[b6onboost]

My only advice is this: at ~$10k for performance mods/labor...just realize that S4s run mid 13s stock, and are nicer inside and out than most A4s. There are a ton of reasons a BT A4 is better than an S4, and vice versa. A BT setup on an A4 is a lot of money, time, and effort, most people on here mod over time and keep stepping up to the next level. Starting from scratch, you may want to crunch the numbers and see if it's worth it.

[AquattroZ]

Like I said before, mine is a daily driver. I really wanted to get into an S4 or even better an RS4 (a guy can dream) but in the back of my head I continuously thought to myself "Just tune an A4!". The A4 is obviously a lot cheaper up front and can always be improved. I'm not looking to have the fastest car on the road and I don't even race anymore, of course there are those few occasions, but none the less I just want a solid well rounded car that is fun to drive when I really want to get on it. I do understand that the APR kit isn't the biggest and meanest setup for the B6 but I guess that's what gives me confidence as far as reliability. What sort of reliability can I expect from other kits? Note: Though I plan do do all labor, I don't want to have a car that I am tinkering with all of the time. I more or less want to install a kit and not have to worry about it. I understand that usually isn't the case and though I'm prepared to experience issues with a BT setup, obviously I'd rather not. Again, what sort of reliability can I expect from other kits?


Widgett.... Why the negativity? What was your experience with APR?

[AquattroZ]

By the way. I've considered going with a K04 setup (very tame) and expect it would be a big improvement over stock but my mindset is that if I'm going to put a new turbo and ALL the supporting elements, why not just go big and do it right? How do you guys feel about the K04.

I really need to meet more Audi guys and see/ride/drive their cars to get a better idea of what to expect from each setup. I'm realizing this now

[Papachristou]

my bad lee, i wasnt talking about that, i was talking about the 98% thing! the other stuff i didnt write it in right...

k04 is very similar in price to the gtrs setup, still need the same supporting mods (at some point) and many people also quickly tire of k04 setups because they too run out of breath pretty quick...

like anything else, if you build it right, you "shouldnt" have any trouble, with standard BT kit, you arent pushing the limits of the engine

[rxrep]

I more or less want to install a kit and not have to worry about it.

That is APR stage 3+ or even the AWE kit. Which is good and bad. As mentioned above, tinkering becomes an obsession. We're going in with Lemmi or unitronics and messing with stuff to try and tweak it more.
But honestly, I bought the kit initially for the same reason as you're stating. I wanted to plug and play. Install and forget.
Unfortunately, the kit is the same tune for someone at sea level as it is for someone at altitude; the same for someone in 100 degree heat as it is for someone in more moderate climates... or even someone with heavily modded supporting stuff as it is for the bozo running stock exhaust and little supporting mods (yes, there was a Stage 3+ with stock exhaust at Waterfest.... the kit as very poorly installed, too). They make the tune work for the masses, which can keep it too safe for some who can afford the extra power with good supporting mods and climate.
With that said, if I'm data logging and my temps are cool, my CF's are low, and I'm at sea level, I want to be able to bump up some stuff. That is the one reason I'd like REVO software with SPS3, as they can control boost and timing externally in real time. APR hardware, however, is tops. And if you TRULY want to plug it in and forget it, the kit is amazing.

[dtm4me]

I agree about APR stage 3+ as a plug n play, reliable solution. It has been great with no probs so far (~15k miles). Def upgrade the front brakes due to the obvious more power=more speed and faster. I have Stoptech 13" fronts with stock rears and Axxis ceramics and they work well. Nothing like spoolin in 3rd gear on the highway!!!!
Best of luck in your decision...

[AquattroZ]

What suspension setups are you guys running with your Stage3 setups? Right now I'm running OEM sport with the RS4 sway. I imagine I'll have to upgrade but again, I'd like to put something in there and not have to worry about it (plug and play). Are coil-overs COMPLETELY necessary in your experiences? From what you guys know is there a solid spring & shock setup that'll handle the power? I imagine there would be but would like to hear from personal experiences. Guys, I really do appreciate all the feedback and I'm finding it very helpful. I've been on this sight for months and months and decided to finally start a thread in hopes to get more specific info, and so far so good.

[Exanimas]

Never again will i deal with APR, WAY overpriced crap! go REVO and you will be happy.

Have any sound clips of your exhaust? Race or sport? Thanks.

[GTMRS4]

I'm running the tein ss coil overs - i'm getting ready to do the Stasis track sports, and I have the RS4 rear sway. I only run coils because I track my car from time to time, if you aren't going to do track and just keep a daily driver then I just recommend getting some after market springs to give you better handling. Coils suck if the roads in the area are not that great, I have a buddy here with a 500awhp S4 who is still running just springs and sport shocks.

Here is a mild video of revving the car. I'll get you a better one tomorrow.

APR Sport Exhaust

[martini]

check on the ATP/REVO kit as well because you will never get even half the money you pay for the APR kit back because they are so picky about their software... they pretty much DO NOT want to to sell your kit used. i wouldnt be confident in allowing them to remove a chip from someones old ECU and soder it in to mine, they were quite hateful about it...

disagree... bought my kit used.... got the eprom with the kit, went to my local apr dealer with the ecu in hand and they soldered the chip for 40 bucks...

never had a problem, and it couldn't have gone any smoother

[GTMRS4]

Yeah I remember when Martini bought the kit - I was bidding for it too, but just decided on something new.

The kits are solid plug and play - it just all depends on how much more you want to tinker.

[martini]

my kit has been purely plug and play... never tweaked it once