Just got an alignment, but the car still slightly pulls.....*PICS*

[absolutegtr]

Just got my alignment done, and it seems like the car still slightly pulls to the left. Tire pressure is the same all around (40psi). It could very well be the road, but it seems to be pulling all around town. The car did pull to the left before the alignment, its just not as center as i would like.

Here are the pics...BEFORE and AFTER...it looks fine to me, but why would it still pull?

[04QuattroTurbo]

Brakes, tire pressures, uneven tire wear, balancing...steering wheel needs to be adjusted? Bent frame. Look like your rear is still off. Why is your toe off after when it was fine before?

[02SILVANT]

Did you get the Rial's put on?

[absolutegtr]

Brakes, tire pressures, uneven tire wear, balancing...steering wheel needs to be adjusted? Bent frame. Look like your rear is still off. Why is your toe off after when it was fine before?

Tire Pressures are all even. Maybe uneven tire wear because my front left tire is beyond showing wire (due to incorrect toe). As for Bent frame, I hope not, lol.

As for brakes, thats interesting. One thing I have noticed with my stock brakes and my current B5S4 caliper is that the passengers brake pads always wear faster than the drivers brake pads. Maybe a malfunctioning proportioning valve?

As for the rear toe, the reason it is off versus what it was, is because we [my friend who works at the toyota dealership and I] decided to set the right rear toe identical to the left rear toe. And the reason we could not set the left toe into the green area, is because the eccentric bolt would bottom out, before it would reach the green area.

Did you get the Rial's put on?

No. I decided to use my current 18" wheels for the alignment, so they heads (for the alignment machine) dont scratch up my new wheels. Plus they just shipped out!!

[bananas]

Brakes, tire pressures, uneven tire wear, balancing...steering wheel needs to be adjusted? Bent frame. Look like your rear is still off. Why is your toe off after when it was fine before?

agreed. Check your tires for uneven and excessive wear.

[02SILVANT]

Did u get a staggered set up on those rials and were they 19's or no?

[brewmastr]

pulls what direction, you have to realize the roads are crowned for water run off so you will never truly be able to get the vehicle to not "pull" there is always a slight right side pull, and it dosent look like they did much to the rear for you at all, its all out of spec still.

[absolutegtr]

Did u get a staggered set up on those rials and were they 19's or no?

I did get 19" but not staggered. Just 8" wide all around.

pulls what direction, you have to realize the roads are crowned for water run off so you will never truly be able to get the vehicle to not "pull" there is always a slight right side pull, and it dosent look like they did much to the rear for you at all, its all out of spec still.

It pulls slightly to the left. And yes, I do understand about how the roads are crowned. But even the most straight road, it still seemed to still pull to the left. Hopefully when the new wheels arrive it might fix itself. (Because the front left tire, like I said, is beyond bald on the inner edge).The only thing I am concerned about is my power steering rack and how it is leaking pretty badly, and whether if it just threw my new alignment out of whack again.

As for the the toe in the rear, that is the best that we could do. I was doing the alignment with my friend (tech at the toyota dealer). I guess I will see what happens when the new wheels arrive. He did the alignment for me for free anyways, I did give a $20 tip though,

What is the rear toe supposed to be at?

[vdubstreets]

What is the rear toe supposed to be at?

thats odd the same thing happend to me when i went to my friends shop to do an alligment. Then i brought it to another shop later on (my car was to low to get on the lift and they had a pit at the other shop) and they said the got it spot on. oldschool shop no printouts and it was straight as can be.

[diagnosticator]

The toe out on the rear is why the car is pulling. The rear toe must be reset accordingly. Toe settings of +0 or on the toe out side of zero, have been demonstrated to be prefered, even though Audi specs say more toe out is the specification setting.

[04QuattroTurbo]

The tow out on the rear is why the car is pulling. The rear toe must be reset accordingly. Toe settings of +0 or on the toe out side of zero, have been demonstrated to be prefered, even though Audi specs say more toe out is the specification setting.

There you go...Diagnosticator to the rescue.

[absolutegtr]

The tow out on the rear is why the car is pulling. The rear toe must be reset accordingly. Toe settings of +0 or on the toe out side of zero, have been demonstrated to be prefered, even though Audi specs say more toe out is the specification setting.

Thanks, but I dont quite understand...Are you saying that the toe on the left and right rear should be at zero? Because the lowest that we could get out of the left rear was about .28* before the eccentric bolt would bottom out and start to increase in degrees. That is why we decided to get bothe rear tires as close as possible.

What number am I supposed to be looking for? Total Toe or the toe settings individually?

[diagnosticator]

Thanks, but I dont quite understand...Are you saying that the toe on the left and right rear should be at zero? Because the lowest that we could get out of the left rear was about .28* before the eccentric bolt would bottom out and start to increase in degrees. That is why we decided to get bothe rear tires as close as possible.

What number am I supposed to be looking for? Total Toe or the toe settings individually?

If the toe can't be set to +/- zero, there is something wrong with the suspension or the alignment rack setup.
Regarding the value of the toe as set, it's been the experience of numerous people, with A4s and sport suspension or lower, that setting toe to zero, nominal toe out, or ~+0.0, to ~+0.1 per side, or less than ~+0.2 cross or total toe, is preferred. Nominal toe out, or +0.0 applies to the front also, but front camber can't be adjusted. Using more toe out results in quicker turn in, less straight line stability, less under steer, and higher wear of the tires inner tread edges. Camber angle effects tire inner edge wear also. More toe out also causes the handling on the freeway to be "busy", with constant corrections to the steering required.

[A4p]

Alignment is such a big ass job.. you will need to find a really good alignment factory where they only dealing with road balance. how is the steering wheel feel??

[absolutegtr]

If the toe can't be set to +/- zero, there is something wrong with the suspension or the alignment rack setup.
Regarding the value of the toe as set, it's been the experience of numerous people, with A4s and sport suspension or lower, that setting toe to zero, nominal toe out, or ~+0.0, to ~+0.1 per side, or less than ~+0.2 cross or total toe, is preferred. Nominal toe out, or +0.0 applies to the front also, but front camber can't be adjusted. Using more toe out results in quicker turn in, less straight line stability, less under steer, and higher wear of the tires inner tread edges. Camber angle effects tire inner edge wear also. More toe out also causes the handling on the freeway to be "busy", with constant corrections to the steering required.

The only thing I can think of as to why my toe is so off and cannot be adjusted, is because my camber is too positive. Would that make sense? (If I was to apply more negative camber, maybe it allow me to toe out more?)

Alignment is such a big ass job.. you will need to find a really good alignment factory where they only dealing with road balance. how is the steering wheel feel??

Honestly, the steering wheel feels kind of loose when initially turning right for like the first couple degrees. And when cruising down the road, i have to hold the steering wheels slightly to the right to keep it straight. But the car does feel SUPER stable at higher speeds (100+mph)

[diagnosticator]

Yeah, the camber should be about -1.0 to -1.5 (negative camber is tipped in at the top)

[absolutegtr]

Yeah, the camber should be about -1.0 to -1.5 (negative camber is tipped in at the top)

Right, I guess I will adjust the rear camber, its just that I want prolonged tire life.

[diagnosticator]

"If I was to apply more negative camber, maybe it allow me to toe out more?",

Well, the rear toe is already to positive, or toe out. Did you mean to say to adjust the toe more negitive, or toe in?

[absolutegtr]

"If I was to apply more negative camber, maybe it allow me to toe out more?",

Well, the rear toe is already to positive, or toe out. Did you mean to say to adjust the toe more negitive, or toe in?

Yes. I guess I got my terminolgy mixed up....

Toe "IN" is for the front
and the rears go by toe "OUT"...correct?

Also, I would assume, that the culprit to my steering is the left rear wheel correct? Dont I want to bring the arrow into the green, therefore bringing the toe IN (for that wheel), correct?

TIA!

[diagnosticator]

Yes. I guess I got my terminolgy mixed up....

Toe "IN" is for the front
and the rears go by toe "OUT"...correct?

Also, I would assume, that the culprit to my steering is the left rear wheel correct? Dont I want to bring the arrow into the green, therefore bringing the toe IN (for that wheel), correct?

TIA!

See:
http://www.aa1car.com/align.htm

Toe IN (negetive) or Toe OUT (Positive) is defined:




And is the same relationship for both front and rear. The pull involves all of the wheels, in balance with each other at the alignment setting existing now. The front and rear toe, should be ~+0.05 on each side or ~+0.10 cross toe or total included toe. front and rear. There is to much toe out in the front, and the rear, and the camber needs to be more negetive, on both sides. The only camber adjustment on the front, is to have the total cross camber divided equally for each side, the subframe is shifted side to side to balance the total cross camber divided side to side.

[absolutegtr]

/\ Thank you very much! (BTW, its John, correct?)

The new wheels come in tomorrow, and I will wait until I replace the power steering rack, to get the whole car realigned.

It does all make sense, but what I find wierd is how the the most toe in we could get out of the left rear is ~.28, but just to make sure, I will have to apply more negative camber to get the toe it to about ~.05....correct?

[diagnosticator]

/\ Thank you very much! (BTW, its John, correct?)

The new wheels come in tomorrow, and I will wait until I replace the power steering rack, to get the whole car realigned.

It does all make sense, but what I find wierd is how the the most toe in we could get out of the left rear is ~.28, but just to make sure, I will have to apply more negative camber to get the toe it to about ~.05....correct?

Yeah, that is what I'm thinking, with more negative camber, like -1.0, the tip-in of the wheel will provide more negative toe adjustment. There is no evidence that something else could be involved, so that makes sense to me. Until you re align the suspension, be careful to watch the tread for signs of rapid wear, it can occur quickly. From the tech article referenced above, with toe out at the cited setting, the tire is dragged 28 ft sideways for every mile traveled. Surprising looking at it from that perspective.!

John

[absolutegtr]

Yeah, that is what I'm thinking, with more negative camber, like -1.0, the tip-in of the wheel will provide more negative toe adjustment. There is no evidence that something else could be involved, so that makes sense to me. Until you re align the suspension, be careful to watch the tread for signs of rapid wear, it can occur quickly. From the tech article referenced above, with toe out at the cited setting, the tire is dragged 28 ft sideways for every mile traveled. Surprising looking at it from that perspective.!

John

Wow! 28ft, sure does put it into perspective!

My plan was to get a set of lowering spring and replace the powersteering rack at the same time, so I would only need an alignment one more time...I guess I need to do some shopping

Thanks John, I will fill you in, when I get the next alignment done!

[doublezero30]

that rear alignment sucks. you can adjust both camber and toe in the rear....no reason besides a frozen bolt why they shouldnt beable to get them better. if your lowered, tell them to use the sport suspension specs. thats what i did when i did my alignment.

[1/4 scale]

Yes, I would change that rack and do your springs, then realign. A loose rack alone could be your problem. I'm running about 1.5 negative camber front with .20 total toe in, and 1.0 negative in the rear with .10 toe-in (it should be closer to zero though as mentioned by "diagnosticator").

[absolutegtr]

Yes, I would change that rack and do your springs, then realign. A loose rack alone could be your problem. I'm running about 1.5 negative camber front with .20 total toe in, and 1.0 negative in the rear with .10 toe-in (it should be closer to zero though as mentioned by "diagnosticator").

For the rear...is that TOTAL toe in (.10) or for each wheel?

But yea, I am on the lookout for the some H&R sport springs, about to buy a new rack, and then hopefully I will be good to go!

that rear alignment sucks. you can adjust both camber and toe in the rear....no reason besides a frozen bolt why they shouldnt beable to get them better. if your lowered, tell them to use the sport suspension specs. thats what i did when i did my alignment.

We adjusted the toe in the rear, none of the bolts were frozen. What i believe is after I add some negative camber, the toe in the rear should kick out. Oh, and we did use sport suspension specs.

[1/4 scale]

[QUOTE=absolutegtr;2723738]For the rear...is that TOTAL toe in (.10) or for each wheel?

I looked again and the service advisor recorded a total of .18' for the rear, each side is .09' or 0˚18' total

For sport suspension toe, Audi recommends:

front per side: 0˚05' to 0˚15' total: 0˚10' to 0˚30'
rear per side: 0˚08' to 0˚15' total: 0˚15' to 0˚30'

You may have a little too much toe in the rear.
(remember 0.5˚ = 30')

[pape]

am sorry to bring up this old thread but I have been searching for hours and here is the closest I can get to my question.

When you add negative camber to the rear, does your toe move + or - ?? in or out??

I already got my rear sub frame as centered as posible but my RR tire has the toe bolt adjusted as far as it goes (negative) and the lowest number I can hit is +0.33.
I am tryng to get to 0.0 but the adjustment wont go any further. The RL does hit 0.0 and + and -

So if I add more negative / \ camber will I be able to get my toe to closer to 0.0?

by the way my cars rear camber is RL -2.54 and RR -2.05

Thanks