how much power REALLY can i expect from a water injection kit?

[lil' is 300]

I've done some research on these various kits and I think Devils Own is the best kit out there with the progressive kit (best price too).

[AudiSportB5S4]

go with VAST they have a progressive kit, im gonna run it.... Jerbel (Jordan) runs it

[sean1.8t]

Who tuned yours? How much did it cost, if I can ask? What kit is it? I ask because I'm also in Utah and may be interested in doing this.

i "tuned" it.

all i did was monitor my CF's, knock, and lambda readings as i added more timing.

like i said, mine really isn't aggressive for daily driving. just a bit more timing and i keep the boost at ~21psi i the summer instead of the ~18 i used to.

and i run a Devils Own stg 2 kit.

[casawhites4]

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...tage-2-12.html
so thats what your runnin??? its only 330?? and i can throw that on my car as is, without a tune for now..cause i plan getting a FMIC or SMIC, W/M and a tune..but obviously i want to run w/m first then get my FMIC and then have someone tune it for me...im runnin the old open element vast set-up GIAC software (i know outdated like whoa, but isnt vast asking for an arm for an upgrade) any idea on exactly what this set-up had?? i lost my mind and dont remember at all (jerbal, this is where you can help me alot, lol)...sorry guys...

[AUDILUX]

Pictures worth a thousand words:

Sweet.

[lil' is 300]

go with VAST they have a progressive kit, im gonna run it.... Jerbel (Jordan) runs it

FYI, VAST's progressive kit = Devils Own Stage 2

[Rated S]

FYI, VAST's progressive kit = Devils Own Stage 2

Get out.



Anyway, with DO Stg 2 kit, it comes with a bottle, but you can easily put it in your washer fluid bottle, correct?

[lil' is 300]

Get out.



Anyway, with DO Stg 2 kit, it comes with a bottle, but you can easily put it in your washer fluid bottle, correct?

DO Stage 2 doesn't come with a reservior -- I would think it would be much easier to just use the stock windshield washer tank since it holds about a gallon and already has a low level sensor. You should also get two nozzles.

Here's VAST's kit (note the controller)


Here's DO's controller:


Direct link to their stage 2 kit: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...tage-2-12.html

[hyperlight944]

depends on how your car is tuned for it. if it's a pretty decent change in timing and fuel, then your engine will grenade pretty fast. lots of guys have blown their engines this way because of a pump going out.

which is why for daily driving mine isn't tuned agressively, just tuned to make the motor run more effecient.



i could still install it without the bi pipe

theres no bipipe theere hombre its the stock everything including tbb hahah

cheers

--daniel

[hyperlight944]

and god that water meth kit from vast is beautiful lol and the pic of one installed could be cleaned up better to look good .... but then again we do drive s4's lol meaning they look plain(ish) motor is vissually not to exciting but then BAM bitches s4 powa!

cheers
--daniel

[S4Per]

here's a question: can you use the wiper fluid tank for both the wipers and the w/m system?

i'm all about retaining stock functionality where possible ;)

[exorcet]

i just may have to do this... 91 octane is not serious business. this kit would make it serious business.

[Rated S]

i just may have to do this... 91 octane is not serious business. this kit would make it serious business.

I feel you on that.
CA piss gas ftl.

[AB18]

How much is Vasts kit? I am really starting to think about running one of these aswell. Just seems like a cheap easy way for insurance, and a good gain in hp.

[Boris]

oh theres a devils own ad at the bottom!

there hasnt been to much mention of the Aqumist setups.. they always seemed overly complex to me. Are snow and DO notably simpler than Aqumist?

[1997gtx]

Note how a 'real' W/M system looks

This is on my 3000GT:

[1997gtx]

here's a question: can you use the wiper fluid tank for both the wipers and the w/m system?

i'm all about retaining stock functionality where possible ;)

Yes, you could ... but you'd have to custom cut your stock fluid tank for another hose going out. Not too difficult, I guess.
--Adam

[generationjdm]

How far from the tb should it be?

[1997gtx]

You want it pretty much as close to the engine as possible. The picture on my VR4 is about a perfect placement, IMO.
--Adam

[generationjdm]

So can u plumb it in the intake manifold direct port haha

[1997gtx]

LoL -- not quite that close, lol.
--Adam

[generationjdm]

I'm going to start tapping all my aluminum Bi-pipes to be plumbed for the meth jets already, so they will have a threaded plug to cover the hole until the jets are installed, i was thinking 2 inches from the tb boot?

[1997gtx]

I think the picture posted of the S4 is about perfect.
--Adam

[AudiSportB5S4]

I'm going to start tapping all my aluminum Bi-pipes to be plumbed for the meth jets already, so they will have a threaded plug to cover the hole until the jets are installed, i was thinking 2 inches from the tb boot?

i was going to buy your bipipes soon(er) lol, eventually. when i do, can you have that done for me ? so that when i get the setup from VAST/devils own its all good to go? that would be sweet

[lrg8683]

does vast list this one their website?

[S4Per]

Yes, you could ... but you'd have to custom cut your stock fluid tank for another hose going out. Not too difficult, I guess.
--Adam

Would it be a bad idea to have some type of y tubing going out of the one hole on the tank as an alternative to cutting a 2nd hole in the tank?

[AudiA4_20T]

I'm going to start tapping all my aluminum Bi-pipes to be plumbed for the meth jets already, so they will have a threaded plug to cover the hole until the jets are installed, i was thinking 2 inches from the tb boot?

Put one up close to the TB, and one down further on the other pipe, this ensures both cooling and detontion suppression, talk to Scott@USRT he is EXTREMELY knowledgable on the topic

[lil' is 300]

I could have sworn you were supposed to place the jets at least 6'' away from the TB so the water/meth can atomize.

[lrg8683]

no one know if VAST has this on their site somewhere?

[lil' is 300]

no one know if VAST has this on their site somewhere?

It's not officially out yet.

[S4Per]

I could have sworn you were supposed to place the jets at least 6'' away from the TB so the water/meth can atomize.

I've read something similar here

[Allaidback]

Which one would you order? And how long would diy installation take? Is there any write ups on how to tune it yourself? (changing the timing and fuel with vag-com)

*2 Bar Controller [5101]
for engines with 2 bar map sensor $330.00 Quantity :

*2.5 Bar Controller [5102]
for engines with 2.5 bar map sensor $330.00 Quantity :

*3 Bar Controller [5103]
for engines with 3 bar map sensor $330.00 Quantity :

*Voltage Controller [5104]
0-5 Volt Input, most maff, tbs,egt, other map $330.00 Quantity :

[1997gtx]

Would it be a bad idea to have some type of y tubing going out of the one hole on the tank as an alternative to cutting a 2nd hole in the tank?

No -- wouldn't be a bad idea ... I guess you'll just need to find a y-tube that is exactly the right size -- I imagine that will be pretty difficult, though!
--Adam

[SoEvoL]

FYI, VAST's progressive kit = Devils Own Stage 2

I highly recommend the Vast kit

[SoEvoL]

It all depends upon your car, the nozzle you use, etc...

For instance, I am running a perfect 50/50 W/M mixture on my 3000GT.

It runs an 11gph nozzle -- which is huge. "Normal" kits (ie - suitable for the S4) would be in the 5gph or 7gph range.

I have a Snow Variable controller on my car, which starts a light spray (40%) when i'm at 10psi. When the car is hitting 20+ psi, the nozzle is spraying at 100%.

I have the kit (as it was made) to use the stock windshield wiper tank. You disconnect the hose that goes to the windshield wiper, and run a hose that pumps to a W/M pump (and computer) and then to a nozzle that taps directly into my intercooler pipe. When the fluid gets low, my lower washer fluid light goes on. Pretty easy.

Even running around at 20+ psi, the tank lasts just as long as a normal tank of gas.

I fill it up with a 50/50 mixture from regular windshield washer fluid.

As a rule of thumb, 50/50 Water/Methanol injection will increase the octane rating of pump gas by 25% during injection.

So, in theory ... if you're running 93 octane, and throw in a 50/50 mixture, you should see a bump in octane by about 20-23 -- or about 113octane ... (Please note I incorrectly typed 103 above).

A W/M injection will lower your A/F ratio by at least a half point just to start, so if you are able to really tune the car, the A/F ratios and an adjustable nozzle, the possibilities are limitless.

You literally could be running equivalent to 113 octane whenever you want.

Also, please note that you should definately avoid mixtures that contain propylene glycol (anti-freeze). It's sometimes added to washer fluid to lower the temperature rating and is harmful to the engine if injected...so, make sure you check!

Here are some methanol ratios of commonly available washer fluids per the manufactures MSDS:



I would stick with Peak -25 degree windshield wiper fluid for the S4 ... At about 35% methanol, it should do the trick nicely for our cars -- it would be about a 17.5% octane boost and put your octane ratiing (with 93 in the tank) to around 109.

Credits for some of the info goes to the guys on my 3000GT forum.

Hope this helps.

Cheers~
--Adam

the Peak -25 mixed with some Heet is a good mix

[1997gtx]

I could have sworn you were supposed to place the jets at least 6'' away from the TB so the water/meth can atomize.

This is true. Optimal positioning is as close to the engine as possible while allowing for the W/M to atomize perfectly... It's obviously better to be on the safe side, so that's why 6 inches is recommended.

I don't think anyone here is talking about running a big enough nozzle to warrant anything further away than that.

I have mine (on the 3000gt) set exactly 12 inches away and everything detonates perfectly ... but i'm using a nozzle that is probably twice the size of anything that will be used for the S4.

6 inches is a good bet for the S4, I would think.
--Adam

[lil' is 300]

I was thinking more along the lines of ~6'' from the IC outlet.

[1997gtx]

The IC outlet?

[casawhites4]

yeah..so that picture on D.O is not a good placement for the Nozzles??? id assume they would know where to install it for optimal performace, wouldnt you???

[lil' is 300]

The IC outlet?

About 6'' after the intercooler on each charge pipe. I don't know much of the science behind it, but wouldn't spraying closer to the IC keep the temps cooler or is it the other way around?