Slow caps times, decent logs, what now?

[Ewok_Fetus]

I am at a loss for what to check now!

Channel 001 - Shows hardly any fuel correction needed.

Channel 002 - Reading up to 170g/s which is good.

Channel 020 - Getting about 3 - 5 CF's mid-high rpms.

Channel 031 - Mixture richens at top end by about 11.8-12.1 AFR, supposedly I should be around 12.5 correct? It has done this with stock program, Upsolute program and GIAC. I don't want to tweak it with Lemmiwinks. Could this be where my problem lies? What would I do to change this?

Channel 115 - Boost looks fine... I am supposedly peaking around 30 psi and holding 25-27 according to VAGCOM but my boost gauge says I peak at 14-15 and hold around 10-12 and 8 by redline... Boost gauge is on, but there are NO leaks in the system, period... I have checked there for vacuum and boost leaks... All good...

[gotaudi]

block 115 reads atmospheric pressure as well as your boost pressure, so you take the reading at idle and subtract that from the peak boost (for example vag-cam says your peak boost was 2300Mbar you subtract about 1000mbar from that = 1300mbar = 18.85psi)

in regards to your caps run what was it? around the 7 -8 second range= kinda normal

[Ewok_Fetus]

OH okay... I wasn't aware of the subtracting atmospheric... My caps time was 9.66 and about 9.1 for an ABSOLUTE best, that was with colder weather too...

Edit: Okay, so I corrected my boost readings through VAGCOM... Car is requesting about 13-14 PSI which is NOT right for a GIAC X... Now, what can cause low requested boost? Should be a bit higher than that!

[gotaudi]

yeah when I had the x chip it would boost around 19-20psi then taper down to 12-14psi, and I think your caps times is close to stock levels...check the DV it might be leaking.

[Ewok_Fetus]

LOL! That is everyone's answer... It is not the DV for sure... I have used 3 different DV's, checked them all, installed in both directions with the same results each time... My car is requesting too little boost... I think if a DV were the case, then I would see good requested boost but low actual boost correct?

[gotaudi]

what file do you have? I think there is and old file (that I had) and it requested more boost than a new file. email GIAC and see what the software should be requesting

[Ewok_Fetus]

Once upon a time with this program, I was running 22 spikes with 18 holding and 15 to redline...

[gotaudi]

o ic, do you have logs showing that it is requesting that much boost? idk what to say.

[Ewok_Fetus]

This is the best I can do for now... This is my log from yesterday... Temp was roughly 75 degrees which is still plenty enough to want to boost 20 psi... At least what it use to be...

[mike-2ptzero]

Your chip is not requestiong what it should if you are running a chip. Have you talked to the tuner and see if you can get it reflashed?


Your highest requested boost is only 1930, the Xchip would be requesting around 2300 mbar.

[Ewok_Fetus]

Just e-mailed GIAC, hopefully they will be able to reflash me for no fee... I won't be able to use the same person since I have moved... Would GIAC pay the local tuner here to do the reflash or would that be under my bill?

[Ewok_Fetus]

Well, yippee!! I removed the ECU and it wasn't a flash, it was a actual chip... The date on it is 23/03/01... So, I guess it is an early chip, did they even have the X chip back then or is the X chip a recent thing? Was I had by the person that sold me this chip?

[maxspeed]

Well, yippee!! I removed the ECU and it wasn't a flash, it was a actual chip... The date on it is 23/03/01... So, I guess it is an early chip, did they even have the X chip back then or is the X chip a recent thing? Was I had by the person that sold me this chip?

dosent the x chip utilize bigger injectors?

[Ewok_Fetus]

God I hope not! Because here are my new logs for this evening... I don't think I did it right the first time plus I was having problems, these are done right...

MAF is still good, reading 160's-170's...

Correction factor is 0 all the way up to redline except #4 had about 3 1.5's in the lower end

Spec boost is still the same

At about 4k RPM my mixture starts to richen... ALOT... Because by about 5k it is in the 10.8 range and won't go any lower... Stays like that till redline...

[gotaudi]

mine was soldered

[mike-2ptzero]

Well, yippee!! I removed the ECU and it wasn't a flash, it was a actual chip... The date on it is 23/03/01... So, I guess it is an early chip, did they even have the X chip back then or is the X chip a recent thing? Was I had by the person that sold me this chip?

Yes the Xchip was first a chip/board before they came out with flashing technology.


Is the chip on a board with a black snap ring that is mounted on some pins and has a small black square chip on the bottom of that board?

dosent the x chip utilize bigger injectors?

No, you are thinking of the hammer file which is for a K04. Larger injectors were never used by the tuners for a K03 on the B5's, that is a B6 thing.

God I hope not! Because here are my new logs for this evening... I don't think I did it right the first time plus I was having problems, these are done right...

MAF is still good, reading 160's-170's...

Correction factor is 0 all the way up to redline except #4 had about 3 1.5's in the lower end

Spec boost is still the same

At about 4k RPM my mixture starts to richen... ALOT... Because by about 5k it is in the 10.8 range and won't go any lower... Stays like that till redline...

Your CF readings are going to look like that because your are way down on boost. Not enough timing is also going to effect the AFR. You are hitting 10.8 but is your target AFR also hitting 10.8 ( .735)?

[Nebone]

I'll have to do a CAPS on my 2001.5 and see how it stacks up to yours. I have APR and its an older file and now there is an updated file that is said to make more power so I'll get a reflash at Waterfest most likely.

[mike-2ptzero]

I'll have to do a CAPS on my 2001.5 and see how it stacks up to yours. I have APR and its an older file and now there is an updated file that is said to make more power so I'll get a reflash at Waterfest most likely.

Hey that would be the prefect time to do a before and after run at the drags.

[Nebone]

Hey that would be the prefect time to do a before and after run at the drags.

That would surely test it out. I raced last year and beat Clints B6 by a fraction of a second and some modded VR6 but my stock like 15.9s runs were not so fun. I finally got the knock sensor issue figured out but the clutch is not up for it. I'm doing Autocross this year.

I talked to Keith from APR and he told me they will have the new file at Waterfest and its free of charge. It also has the P0420 prevention feature, but some said it will not set Readiness as Passed w/ that feature.

[Ewok_Fetus]

Is the chip on a board with a black snap ring that is mounted on some pins and has a small black square chip on the bottom of that board?


Your CF readings are going to look like that because your are way down on boost. Not enough timing is also going to effect the AFR. You are hitting 10.8 but is your target AFR also hitting 10.8 ( .735)?

I don't recall seeing a "snap ring." But you have the OEM board and what looks to be little black risers that go to the GIAC board... The GIAC board then has a chip soldered onto that with a serial number, date and a I assume, program type...

My car is hitting 10.8 and I thought the wideband is limited to that... The car is requesting .68 lambda or 9.996 AFR... I tried to up the boost with Lemiwinks last night but it was already maxed at 100%...

What block is it to log your AIT? I mean, that in all honesty could cause low requested boost correct? Reason I ask, is because when I was trolling around the reading blocks, I came acrossed it and it said 113 degrees or 45 celcius... I didn't even have the car on, nor has it been driven in the past 24 hours. It was also roughly 68 degrees outside... I took the IAT out and tried to clean it/inspect it but didn't help much...

Honestly Mike, I don't think that a program would just sort of loose itself unless somehow the program became corrupt... There has to be something else causing the low request...

I appreciate your help as this is teaching me to do some more advanced dattaloggin which I have been wanting to do for a while so when I go BT, I know what to look for without asking 10000000 time on the boards...

[mike-2ptzero]

I don't recall seeing a "snap ring." But you have the OEM board and what looks to be little black risers that go to the GIAC board... The GIAC board then has a chip soldered onto that with a serial number, date and a I assume, program type...

My car is hitting 10.8 and I thought the wideband is limited to that... The car is requesting .68 lambda or 9.996 AFR... I tried to up the boost with Lemiwinks last night but it was already maxed at 100%...

What block is it to log your AIT? I mean, that in all honesty could cause low requested boost correct? Reason I ask, is because when I was trolling around the reading blocks, I came acrossed it and it said 113 degrees or 45 celcius... I didn't even have the car on, nor has it been driven in the past 24 hours. It was also roughly 68 degrees outside... I took the IAT out and tried to clean it/inspect it but didn't help much...

Honestly Mike, I don't think that a program would just sort of loose itself unless somehow the program became corrupt... There has to be something else causing the low request...

I appreciate your help as this is teaching me to do some more advanced dattaloggin which I have been wanting to do for a while so when I go BT, I know what to look for without asking 10000000 time on the boards...

Does it look like this?

Top


Bottom


Can also look like this but it must be a white board with a black snap ring holding the chip down.


If it doesn't look exactly like that then you dont have a GIAC chip and might just have a stock chip on a board that gets installed when removing the GIAC chip/board. Another way to tell is if the chip is soldered directly to that small board it is either a stock chip or a copy someone is passing off as a GIAC chip.


Block 004 for IAT readings. IIRC on that block you will have a IAT reading and a coolant temp reading.

[Ewok_Fetus]

Well, the board the chip is on reads GIAC everywhere... It looks like the top board but the chip is soldered to the board... As I said, it has a barcode/sticker that has a date and some GIAC info on it... I USED to boost 20-22 psi so the chip I am 100% sure was a genuine GIAC doing what it should... Something just doesn't add up... Did the GIAC chips also look like that in 2001?

[mike-2ptzero]

GIAC never soldered the chips directly to their encription boards, they only did that for the stock chip module option.

You might want to snap a picture of it when you get a chance.

[Ewok_Fetus]

I'll have one up tonight... I wish I remembered who sold me the chip... Cause I am starting to get pissed if what you say is truth...

[Ewok_Fetus]

Oh and what is the stock chip module option?

[mike-2ptzero]

Oh and what is the stock chip module option?

It is just a standard board that has a chip soldered directly to it that is flashed with a stock file. It allows the customer to pull the ECU chip/board off and sell it, then put the stock one back in without having to remove the pins and solder the stock chip back to the ecu board.

[Ewok_Fetus]

Oh okay... But it isn't a stock program in this chip... GARH!! I searched and cannot remember who I got it from!

[ModifiedA4]

i threw this together in 5mins:


whats block 032 say?

[Ewok_Fetus]

LOL! I am glad you have Excel skills cause I sure don't... I suck at graphing... The problem isn't the boost requested vs actual boost... It is that it isn't requesting the boost it should be... Sorry for the ingorant block 31 results... 32 didn't register anything... Also, GIAC is 100% sure the program is doing what it should... I sort of agree with them... It is a hardware issue that is requesting the low boost according to them...

Group A: '031
Lambda Lambda
TIME Actual Value Spec Value
STAMP
0.01 0.938 0.953
0.4 0.953 0.953
0.8 0.961 0.953
1.21 0.938 0.953
1.71 0.977 1
2.11 0.992 1
2.51 1 1
3.02 1 0.945
3.52 0.899 0.899 ~2500 RPM
3.92 0.875 0.899
4.32 0.875 0.899
4.73 0.891 0.899
5.23 0.891 0.899
5.63 0.891 0.899
6.14 0.906 0.899
6.54 0.899 0.899 ~4000 RPM
6.94 0.899 0.899
7.44 0.875 0.867
7.84 0.821 0.821
8.25 0.813 0.821
8.65 0.805 0.805
9.05 0.813 0.813
9.45 0.797 0.797 ~5000 RPM
9.85 0.789 0.789
10.25 0.782 0.782
10.67 0.774 0.774
11.16 0.766 0.758
11.56 0.766 0.75
11.98 0.766 0.735
12.47 0.743 0.727
12.87 0.735 0.727
13.37 0.735 0.719
13.77 0.735 0.727
14.19 0.735 0.711
14.68 0.735 0.704
15.08 0.735 0.696
15.5 0.735 0.696
15.9 0.735 0.68
16.41 0.735 0.688
16.91 0.735 0.68
17.31 0.735 0.68
17.82 0.735 0.68
18.22 0.735 0.696
18.62 0.735 0.719
19.02 0.735 0.68
19.42 0.828 0.922
19.82 0.844 0.992
20.22 0.899 1
20.62 1.367 1.047
21.02 1.991 1.047



Group B: '020
Ignition Angle Ignition Angle Ignition Angle Ignition Angle
TIME Retard Cyl.1 Retard Cyl.2 Retard Cyl.3 Retard Cyl.4
STAMP CF CF CF CF
0.51 0 0 0 0
1.81 0 0 0 0
3.12 0 0 0 1.5
4.53 0 0 0 1.5
5.74 0 0 0 1.5
7.04 0 0 0 0.8
8.25 0 0 0 0
9.47 0 0 0 0
10.67 0 0 0 0
12.17 0 0 0 0
13.48 0 0 0 0
14.79 0 0 0 0
16.2 0 0 0 0
17.61 0 0 0 0
19.02 0 0 0 0
20.22 0 0 0 0

[ModifiedA4]

block 032 can tell you quickly if something is really amiss. also, keep in mind the car will request lower boost if things are not running right
is it me or do the primary O2s look lean in the upper rpm? funny how that is right where your boost curve takes a nose dive hmmm.



read block 032, anything significantly non-zero is bad.

[Ewok_Fetus]

This is a 2001 so those readings are pig rich... It is rich enough to where I can see smoke comming from my exhaust... Yes it is all fuel, no oil burning... I had my dad to a take off in front of me... Black all the way... So my theory is, since I am not boosting as much as I should, it is getting REALLY rich up top there like Mike said... Just have to find why it doesn't request that boost!

[gotaudi]

does the GIAC ecu really run the A/F ratio down to 10:1 or is the car just dumping fuel or what?

[Ewok_Fetus]

Well, according to the requested AFR, that is what GIAC is requesting... So not only does it request too little boost, it also requests too much fuel... Kinda weird on that one!

[gotaudi]

Well, according to the requested AFR, that is what GIAC is requesting... So not only does it request too little boost, it also requests too much fuel... Kinda weird on that one!

yeah that is what i am talking about, the car is requesting to lower the boost and dump fuel.

[Nebone]

Here is m run from tonight. Temp was @25*C



I think thats a good caps run and actual boost matches requested boost pretty well. Timing pull is still there even after replacing my Knock Sensor.

[Ewok_Fetus]

Found this on ebay none the less... It says the car will not compensate for fueling and boost if you had a bad o2 sensor... Thing is, I have no codes...

O2 Sensor – Because of strict emissions these 1.8T’s are very sensitive to readings from the O2 sensors. 2001+ have a wideband front O2 sensor with high accuracy and a linear response. The car will adjust the fueling based on the readings from the sensor. If the sensor is over heated, exposed to lead (race gas), flooded with soot (too rich) or is just old, it can provide the car with false readings and the car will not provide the proper fueling. When the O2 sensors go bad and the ECU detects this the car will run on reserve fueling maps and will not be able to adjust for boost leaks, fuel pressure, MAF readings or any other parameter that affects fueling. To check for a bad sensor the first thing to do is run block 032 on the VAG com. If the sensors are bad, the readings will both be 0%, replace the Front O2 sensor. If the sensor is bad, it will also respond slowly, or reach a peak. Logging block 031 will show the lambda reading from the O2 sensor as well as the requested lambda from the ECU. To get air fuel ratio multiply lambda by 14.7. If the lgo shows the lambda jumping wildly when running through a gear, or perhaps it flat lines at an unreasonable level, then the O2 sensor should be replaced. It is a 50$ part. If the o2 sensors get shorted out or the wires get pulled, they will damage the ECU, be careful with the wiring on these sensors. 2000 and older cars do not have a wideband sensor, however they will still perform some adjustment of fueling based on the sensor.

[gotaudi]

What do your fuel trims read? (Block 32)

[Ewok_Fetus]

I'll log them tomorrow...

[Ewok_Fetus]

Hey guys, I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I cannot perform any output tests for the ECU... Damn thing better not be dying...

[Ewok_Fetus]

Well, did my measuring block homework... Found some of great importance... Others are just for FIY for later... But these are what I found... The ones in bold are what I think I should log...

Block 001 - Lambda adjustment
Block 002 - MAF readings/Injection duty cycle
Block 003 - MAF/throttle/ignition angle
Block 004 - IAT/coolant temp
Block 006 - IAT/engine load
Block 020 - Ignition retard
Block 030 - Oxygen sensor status
Block 031 - Oxygen sensor voltage
Block 032 - Oxygen sensor learning values
Block 033 - Lambda control
Block 043 - EGT
Block 046 - Catalytic converter test
Block 080 - Control module ID
Block 081 - Control module ID
Block 082 - Control module ID
Block 111 - Boost pressure control - Boost adaption
Block 114 - Boost pressure control - Load/duty cycle
Block 116 - Correction factors for temp
Block 118 - IAT/boost duty cycle/pressure before throttle
Block 119 - N75 adapt value
Block 140 - Fuel pressure?
Block 160 - Lambda control for ULEV