Question for those with APR 1+

[mcoupe]

I have this setup on my Avant. Car has more torque but I do not have a FMIC or exhaust. Debating if I should put more money into the car or just run it as is. Anyone with APR 1+ and FMIC + Exhaust...Is there a big difference?

[doublezero30]

wondering the same thing. i know revo 2 is the same as apr 1+ but they require fmic, exhaust, dv, and injectors....where i believe with apr 1+ you can run just injectors if youde like.

thats my understanding at least, someone please correct me if im wrong.

[Papachristou]

i have all three.. i have a racetec and for me that made the biggest difference in power.. the exhaust/test pipe made more noise, slightly quicker spool and the test pipe has lowered my EGTs a lot and they return to normal quicker but if i was choosing between the two, get teh FMIC first.. HUGE difference in power.. i ran logs before and after and the FMIC lowered my IATs almost 100 degrees (used to peak 175 IAT now even with ambient at 85-90 they dont go above 100... those upgraded SMIC only seem to lower IATs about 20 degrees

people always rag on me because i promote the FMIC for 1+ so much but the difference in power was just amazing.. the car pulled so much harder and never seemed to get tired like it used too... plus after running those logs and seeing my IATs hit 175 degrees! thats hot air.. after the racetec i couldnt get them above 92 with 85 being the ambient..

[wolfdog]

Yea, REVO detunes it without a FMIC, limits boost if I'm not mistaken.

FMIC will allow continued power since after a few minutes of driving your SMIC is heatsoaked. Not speaking from personal experience but it's apparently like the car continuing to behave the way it does the first five minutes of driving. I think it will add to your enjoyment.

Bottom line is stock isn't sufficient enough. I'm not a spirited driver and will probably do it eventually after REVO 1+.

Any minute now Papachristou will chime in with his FMIC story, which will help you decide.

[phantom b6]

I'm with Papchristou on the FMIC... It makes a HUGE difference

[Papachristou]

see you guys are so harsh on me!! but i am confident once you break down and get one, you will be a convert see, phantom is rocking the FMIC!

BTW...my REVO dealer refused to give me a stage II flash (same as apr 1+) unless i got the FMIC and exhaust


im going to do some logs this weekend for you guys... if anyone is still stock with APR 1+ do some logs as well and we will compare!

[A4 KiDD 810]

I know someone with a chipped 2.0T and they said when they got the FMIC they didnt notice too much of a difference....

[Papachristou]

different car, engine and flash.. not using bigger injectors either

[doublezero30]

so can you run apr1+ with your stock cat? thats really my main question. thats whats been keeping me from getting revo 2.

[Papachristou]

Yes, APR will give you flash regardless of your mods... obviously if you have exhaust, test pipe or intercooler it will help more... REVO has the ability to turn down the boost and timing so its better on your engine... with stock exhaust and cat my EGTs were probably 1000c.... vag doesnt read that high, now they dont get above 950c and it cools down much quicker... about 1-2 minutes to return to 400c... and obviously with my IATs hitting that high, boost needed to be turned down

[mcoupe]

That is what I thought. Need a FMIC! Especially with Texas summer. Now I have to find one within my budget. Thanks for the help!

[doublezero30]

Yes, APR will give you flash regardless of your mods... obviously if you have exhaust, test pipe or intercooler it will help more... REVO has the ability to turn down the boost and timing so its better on your engine... with stock exhaust and cat my EGTs were probably 1000c.... vag doesnt read that high, now they dont get above 950c and it cools down much quicker... about 1-2 minutes to return to 400c... and obviously with my IATs hitting that high, boost needed to be turned down

^so would it be better for me to get the revo file and just turn down boost and timing until i finish my exhaust?

[jessefrank]

I have Revo 2 without all the supporting mods. I'd say from Stg1 to Stg 2 (detuned) there is a slight difference (not quite as big as OEM-Stg 1), but a bit of a gain none the less. I didn't (and still don't) have the money to dump in to a full exhaust or FMIC and I had the injectors just sitting in my garage for like a year; so I figured what the heck and did the stg 2 flash without the supporitng mods.
I wanted REVO over GIAC/APR anyhow; but like that they de-tune it if you don't have all the mods to safely run the normal stage 2 file. My dealer said the fmic was optional i beleive (as the ecu will turn back timing as the SMIC gets heat soaked to protect against detonation...and you'll get less then stellar power w/ out the FMIC), but the TP and full exhaust were mandatory (as w/ the REVO file it puts too much back pressure on the turbo w/ stock exhaust/cat)...causing it to sefl destruct pretty quickly.

I have since added a ER TP and like has been stated earlier it facilitates spool-up (IMO the turbo spools up alot quicker/sooner and maybe a bit more torque). Also after the TP it seems that if I run the car hard the turbo isn't glowing as bad as when the stock cat was on there.
I think the exhaust would help out too; but If I had to choose between a $1000 exhaust or FMIC...I think the FMIC would give you the most bang-for-the-buck hands down.
I have no logs...but in my driving impression my OEM SMIC gets heat soaked pretty quick and if the outsided temps are 70 deg or above it's heat soaked pretty much immediately and stays that way even if just driving like an old lady.

Oh and BTW...the B7 A4's (2.0t's) have Dual side mounts from the factory...so adding a FMIC to one probably wouldn't be as big of a difference in performance as on our B6's.

[Papachristou]

i didnt know 2.0t's had DSMICs... makes sense you wouldnt see a big difference but some

[a4wd]

I was in the same boat about 9months ago. I heard so many different stories on the forums about how all supporting mods were necessary before I went stage 2 REVO. I still dont have a FMIC but have ran Stage 2 with PSI testpipe and custom magnaflow exhaust. I have a 710N DV and K&N Drop in filter. I do notice loss of power after doing one hard run with my ride. I have been searching for FMIC's but I cant justify spending that much $$. (i still need to do my timing belt, ETC). Plus, I decided to get wheels instead =).
To be honest, I was scared about flashing my car because I felt I wouldn't see too much gain over the stage 1 without a FMIC or testpipe (ran stage one for 3 years). But I will definitely say that the TP has helped the car so much in terms of throttle response. I felt the stock cat limited the responsiveness of the B6. My friend who has a MK2 GTI with a VR6 drove my car after my flash and TP, and was very surprised at the difference. In his words he said , " it feels like a normal car now." Driving his GTI, the throttle response is amazing...something you would expect when the car has about 200whp and weighs about half of our car. (has cams, LSD, lightweight flywheel ETC). So he def knows about throttle response!! But anyway I decided to go stage 2 because summers here in the bay area dont really exeed 80 degrees.(around the coast, not inlands) Like right now, I am in Oakland and its about 75 degrees whereas sacramento is like 95-100 LOL I love bay area weather O__O

[kolan67]

APR stage 1+ is a gate way drug into a big turbo. I'll be selling my tt225 injectors and mag mufflers 14851's.

[Papachristou]

APR stage 1+ is a gate way drug into a big turbo. I'll be selling my tt225 injectors and mag mufflers 14851's.

indeed you are correct... 1+ is a gateway drug to the ultimate addiction in hindsight, i would have just done supporting mods ( FMIC, exhaust, clutch, SS, brakes, suspension, then gone BT

[Old Greg]

Kind of off topic but what would be my best option on injectors for APR 1+? Just the TT225s or is there something that would be better?

[doublezero30]

Kind of off topic but what would be my best option on injectors for APR 1+? Just the TT225s or is there something that would be better?

tt225s are best because they have an OEM spray pattern. manguyen sells them on here for a good price. i know there are others that are a bit cheaper but i dont remember the brands. im sure you could find out with a search.

and 1 more thing...

IM OLD GREGGGGG! (i had to lol)

[Papachristou]

anyone get a chance to run some logs with just APR 1+ without a FMIC?

[05A$SE]

will SB stage 2 support a 1+ pretty well? also am i gonna burn up the turbo if i go with a TP and stock exhuast with the 1+?

[Old Greg]

tt225s are best because they have an OEM spray pattern. manguyen sells them on here for a good price. i know there are others that are a bit cheaper but i dont remember the brands. im sure you could find out with a search.

and 1 more thing...

IM OLD GREGGGGG! (i had to lol)

Haha sounds good. Thanks.

[acbaseball186]

i have apr chip with exhaust diverter valve injectors (and a bigger turbo) but no fmic...makes a decent amount of diff

[demea]

anyone get a chance to run some logs with just APR 1+ without a FMIC?

Whats with all the running of logs???
Doesnt anyone mod then track their car and post times anymore? Kill stories at least?

Coming from 20 years in the world of Detroit muscle, where every mod has a quarter mile increase and time slip associated with it, this is a little bit frustrating relying on someones idea of "big difference".


PS: I've read that the FMIC gains are around 8-10 HP. Are you saying that the FMIC after the 1+ felt the most difference?

[Papachristou]

will SB stage 2 support a 1+ pretty well? also am i gonna burn up the turbo if i go with a TP and stock exhuast with the 1+?

no, u will be fine, just let your car cool down after running it hard.. if u are going to do the clutch job, go OFE SS or FE SS and be done with it

Whats with all the running of logs???
Doesnt anyone mod then track their car and post times anymore? Kill stories at least?

Coming from 20 years in the world of Detroit muscle, where every mod has a quarter mile increase and time slip associated with it, this is a little bit frustrating relying on someones idea of "big difference".


PS: I've read that the FMIC gains are around 8-10 HP. Are you saying that the FMIC after the 1+ felt the most difference?

two answers:

1. this clearly isnt a detroit muscle car or a quarter mile car... you could probably dump $20k in your car to be hitting 12 sec quarter mile,,, if that is your goal, you need to dump this POS, because its a heavy, pig of a 4 banger AWD car...

2. yes after 1+ the fMIC will provide the most gain in power,,, i was amazed how much harder the car pulled and it did so everytime, it never got tired (heatsoaked) like it used too... logs allow us to gauge the benefits of ours mods... we can see before the FMIC, our IATs hit 170F (85 ambient) after they max at 92F so you can tell u get your monies worth! you can also see how fast the intercooler can recover when running hard...
in the quarter mile, im not sure how much difference that would make.. probably a big difference after a few runs down the track..

i was wanting someone with stock apr 1+ (or with exhaust) to run some logs of their IATs so we could compare them to mine..

[Trev]

APR 1+ with Meth/Water injection is another way to go if your not hard on it all the time.
http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=58