GTRS- how the hell do you get this thing to spool pre 4000RPM?

[gotaudi]

Hey guys well my problems with my car still exist and I dont know what to do about it, unitronic doesn't answer emails so I am looking to the audi community for some insight on the persisting problems...

First I have so much timing pull it is ridiculous... here is a log of timing corrections, A/F ratio, block 3 and Boost

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...lVWMUF3d6zmCbA

if you look at the timing, I pull close to max timing when boost hits, my A/F ratio is right on spec, Boost takes forever to build to 19psi.

Here is what is installed on my car:

GTRS
Unitronics
Precision FMIC (350 HP core)
neuspeed TIP
bosch Green Giant 440cc injectors.@4 bar
VR6 MAF housing with a fairly new stock MAF sensor
APR 2.5" exhaust
Labree high flow cat
ATP Manifold.
Evo MS DV
K&N custom intake.
Apexi AVC-r boost controller...

First what can I do to lower the timing corrections? it is scary high, second why does it take almost until 5000rpms to spool this turbo? I dont know how everyone is saying that they are getting a full spool by 4000RPM's. I do not have any exhaust leaks, boost leaks or vacuum leaks. I have checked with an air compressor up to 15psi and also took it to a shop that hooked it up to a smoke machine and still no leaks... Also when boost hits, the overall timing is pretty low, is this normal or should it be higher?

[317ssayzarc]

what are your afr's?

[gotaudi]

what are your afr's?

? sorry i think i am retarded right now but what does afr's mean? maybe air fuel ratio?

[317ssayzarc]

you got it

[gotaudi]

you got it

I posted it above, it is in the log... I have 4 different logs in the link, each worksheet is listed on the top. let me know if you guys ca access the logs

[317ssayzarc]

eh, that doesnt mean ish... get a wideband gauge in their asap or you could end up having to tear you motor apart like me... get a wideband setup NOW!

[gotaudi]

what do you mean the 2001 uses a wideband just multiply the value by 14.7.... but i agree i need to get a wideband for reference

[mike-2ptzero]

Your tune doesn't run enough timing down low to spool the turbo and too much timing in the mid-high rpms. It almost looks like your running a K03 file that has been tweaked for larger injectors.


Are you sure the boost issue isn't because of the EBC? Have you unhooked the vac lines to see if the turbo spools up much quicker?



Jake. Even his AFR is on the rich side during spool up, it should be leaner then 12:1 at that point which is what his log shows.

[gotaudi]

Your tune doesn't run enough timing down low to spool the turbo and too much timing in the mid-high rpms. It almost looks like your running a K03 file that has been tweaked for larger injectors.


Are you sure the boost issue isn't because of the EBC? Have you unhooked the vac lines to see if the turbo spools up much quicker?

that is kinda scary to unplug the line going to the wastegate. I use to use the N75 valve, then i went to a MBC then a EBC, all pretty much the same spool The ebc did help a little.

The timing issue is pretty bad but i dont know what to do about it.

[317ssayzarc]

yea... try the vac line to the wastegate.... turning off the ebc will do effectively the same thing...

how olds that primary 02?

[gotaudi]

when i turn off the EBC it just bypasses and it is like a vac line is directly from the boost source to the wastegate, I think mike is talking about take the line off completely and see if the spool gets better. The car runs at around 14~15 psi, so the wastegate is around 1 bar or so

The primary 02 is 66,000 miles old it is the original

[mike-2ptzero]

yea... try the vac line to the wastegate.... turning off the ebc will do effectively the same thing...

how olds that primary 02?

Actually doesn't turning off the EBC just cause it to blow thru the step motor causing the turbo to run at the wg spring rate? This would be the same as bypassing the step motor completely which isn't the same as running no vac line to the WG.

[317ssayzarc]

Actually doesn't turning off the EBC just cause it to blow thru the step motor causing the turbo to run at the wg spring rate? This would be the same as bypassing the step motor completely which isn't the same as running no vac line to the WG.

thought you meant eliminate the ebc and just run a straight vac line... i wouldnt reccomend running no vac line for this particular car because hes already pulling timing and the turbo could spike awefully quick and thatll add to an already not good situation... unless its in a high gear, 4th or 5th, i dont reccomend the no vac line... thats just me

[gotaudi]

thought you meant eliminate the ebc and just run a straight vac line... i wouldnt reccomend running no vac line for this particular car because hes already pulling timing and the turbo could spike awefully quick and thatll add to an already not good situation... unless its in a high gear, 4th or 5th, i dont reccomend the no vac line... thats just me

I kinda agree, i wouldn't feel comfortable maybe when my gas tank gets low I will go put some race gas in and try it on a cold night... I also get roughly the same timing pull running just off the wastegate (about 14~15 psi shouldnt it be lower?)

Any other things i should look at?

[317ssayzarc]

well the race gas will tell you another thing... if the timing pull is afr or timing related... id say that'd be a good start

[gotaudi]

fair enough, but my afr is perfect with the requested. I remember running race gas awhile ago and it really didnt help with the timing correction values

[Squarrl]

I thought you were supposed to run different injectors then the green tops

[gotaudi]

unitronic says it is tuned for 440cc injectors at 4 bar.

[mike-2ptzero]

thought you meant eliminate the ebc and just run a straight vac line... i wouldnt reccomend running no vac line for this particular car because hes already pulling timing and the turbo could spike awefully quick and thatll add to an already not good situation... unless its in a high gear, 4th or 5th, i dont reccomend the no vac line... thats just me

That test should always be done in nothing but 4th or 5th so it gives you more time to lift off the throttle if needed.

I thought you were supposed to run different injectors then the green tops

Injector size wouldn't make a difference since the ecu sets a requested AFR to control how much fuel is being sprayed.


Gotaudi - running racefuel on that tune is just going to make it worse in the lower rpms where you are trying to spool the turbo since there is no adv timing and zero timing pull. Like I said before, it really looks like you are running a tweaked K03 file for large injectors. This is why you have very little timing in the low rpms and way too much timing in the high rpms which is where the K03 would be falling on its face.

[gotaudi]

That test should always be done in nothing but 4th or 5th so it gives you more time to lift off the throttle if needed.




Injector size wouldn't make a difference since the ecu sets a requested AFR to control how much fuel is being sprayed.


Gotaudi - running racefuel on that tune is just going to make it worse in the lower rpms where you are trying to spool the turbo since there is no adv timing and zero timing pull. Like I said before, it really looks like you are running a tweaked K03 file for large injectors. This is why you have very little timing in the low rpms and way too much timing in the high rpms which is where the K03 would be falling on its face.

i will see if i can get out and try unplugging the line to the wastegate. Do you think unitronic would really re tune their ko3 file for larger injectors? I have spoke with Unitronic and i have sent them many logs. they seem to believe their is something wrong with the ECU, and about 2 months ago i was ready to send them a stock ecu to re chip. That was the last time I have heard from them. since i have sent them emails about one every 1.5 weeks trying to get some follow up information... but no word... I really dont know what else to do. my car is not running like it should be and it has already been close to a year. A local audi performance shop even told me that it is most likely the tune, they took a bunch of logs and performed a bunch of tests trying to figure out the problems...

I just dont know what to do with the cars problems

[mike-2ptzero]

i will see if i can get out and try unplugging the line to the wastegate. Do you think unitronic would really re tune their ko3 file for larger injectors? I have spoke with Unitronic and i have sent them many logs. they seem to believe their is something wrong with the ECU, and about 2 months ago i was ready to send them a stock ecu to re chip. That was the last time I have heard from them. since i have sent them emails about one every 1.5 weeks trying to get some follow up information... but no word... I really dont know what else to do. my car is not running like it should be and it has already been close to a year. A local audi performance shop even told me that it is most likely the tune, they took a bunch of logs and performed a bunch of tests trying to figure out the problems...

I just dont know what to do with the cars problems

Maybe we can talk to mike and see if he would be willing to swap his Revo tuned ecu, 550cc injectors, stock maf housing into your car and see if the problem goes away.

[gotaudi]

Maybe we can talk to mike and see if he would be willing to swap his Revo tuned ecu, 550cc injectors, stock maf housing into your car and see if the problem goes away.

yeah I spoke with him about 2 weeks ago, he didnt feel comfortable swapping everything. Which I understand and respect. I am getting kind of annoyed at unitronic not getting back to me.

[gotaudi]

I unplugged the line going to the wastegate, I did both a pull in 3rd 4th and 5th gear
the results are as followed:

3rd gear i will hit 2300mbar at 4440RPMs
4th gear I will hit 2300mbar at 4180RPMs
5th gear I will hit 2300RPMs at 4080RPMs

again Roughly 4500rpms in 3rd gear for this tiny turbo. I know if my car would run more timing it would spool quicker but I just cannot find out what is causing the aggressive timing pull.

[mike-2ptzero]

I unplugged the line going to the wastegate, I did both a pull in 3rd 4th and 5th gear
the results are as followed:

3rd gear i will hit 2300mbar at 4440RPMs
4th gear I will hit 2300mbar at 4180RPMs
5th gear I will hit 2300RPMs at 4080RPMs

again Roughly 4500rpms in 3rd gear for this tiny turbo. I know if my car would run more timing it would spool quicker but I just cannot find out what is causing the aggressive timing pull.

It is pulling timing because there is way too much timing programmed into the tune in that section of the tune. This is why I keep saying it looks like a K03 or maybe K04 file.

yeah I spoke with him about 2 weeks ago, he didnt feel comfortable swapping everything. Which I understand and respect. I am getting kind of annoyed at unitronic not getting back to me.

Could be that he just wasn't comfortable doing the swap himself. I will see if he would be willing if I do the swap on both cars, plus since he bought the parts from me he knows if I mess up one of the parts I will just replace it.

[gotaudi]

It is pulling timing because there is way too much timing programmed into the tune in that section of the tune. This is why I keep saying it looks like a K03 or maybe K04 file.




Could be that he just wasn't comfortable doing the swap himself. I will see if he would be willing if I do the swap on both cars, plus since he bought the parts from me he knows if I mess up one of the parts I will just replace it.

Well if the timing is decreased their will be some parts where i would not be running any timing at all. I dont know how the timing works on the cars... I thought that the car requests a particular degree of timing then the car pulls the timing back (or various reasons) then you take the requested timing minus the timing pull and you get the overall engine timing. some parts in my tune (right when boost hits) I have roughly 11 degrees of timing pull and my overall timing is around 1-2 degrees. so does this mean my car is requesting 12-13 degrees of timing but my car cant handle it? I have seen some BT cars run much more timing when boost hits.

[Wizard-of-OD]

You sure you got the UNI BT software?

[gotaudi]

You sure you got the UNI BT software?

yeah sean@unitronic said I have the newest file loaded onto the ECU. The only thing is him and Michal Zielinski think the ECU has something wrong with it. I have been email the both of them for about a month to see what I can do but they havent responded to any of my emails.

[beejohn]

what psi should the wastegate be set to?

[317ssayzarc]

ask if you can switch to the 630cc file

[mike-2ptzero]

what psi should the wastegate be set to?

15psi, but that doesn't really matter since still cant get the turbo to spool like it should even without a pressure line to the wg actuator or while using a EBC.

He could pull the turbo off to see if the WG is already in an open position.

[Nebone]

are you getting any knock sensor issues? Pulling all that timing could be related to it. Try logging knock sensor voltage, block 26, at idle and at WOT 3rd gear.

[gotaudi]

ask if you can switch to the 630cc file

I am sending in a spare ECU for them to re-chip.

are you getting any knock sensor issues? Pulling all that timing could be related to it. Try logging knock sensor voltage, block 26, at idle and at WOT 3rd gear.

I will do a log of this and see what is going on with the knock voltages

[audiholix]

Gotaudi: were you able to work out the kinks with your unitronic tune? s\I've been overseas this summer and forgot about your issues. Mike is right, I just wasn't comfortable doing it myself but if you haven't sorted the problem out yet, and if mike has time then i'd be more than happy to meet up so mike can swap the parts. I'm still in the process of breaking in my clutch, which hopefully will be done by this week. pm me or have mike call me , I'm usually free on fridays and weekends.

[mike-2ptzero]

Gotaudi: were you able to work out the kinks with your unitronic tune? s\I've been overseas this summer and forgot about your issues. Mike is right, I just wasn't comfortable doing it myself but if you haven't sorted the problem out yet, and if mike has time then i'd be more than happy to meet up so mike can swap the parts. I'm still in the process of breaking in my clutch, which hopefully will be done by this week. pm me or have mike call me , I'm usually free on fridays and weekends.

Just let me know, I am in Seattle/Silverdale right now but will be back on tuesday night.