Lets talk engines...

[AudiA4_20T]

Ok so are all the 2.2 Inline 5 turbo engines the same?

Ive seen this engine in random cars like 4000s, original UR-Quattros, S6s, S4s, sport quattros, S2s, etc

So, whats the deal? are there many different 2.2 Inline Turbo 5s? and if theyre different what makes them different?

Thanks guys

[chucka4]

well there is a list of differences, and i only know a small portion but i will try and do my best.

i think the first inline 5 turbo was made in the early 80s, maybe 83. it was used in the Ur quattro, and later in the S1. it was around 200hp i think. that engine is a inline 5 10 valve turbo. this was also in the 4000, 5000, 100, and i think the 200. the engine code is a 3B

later in 89, they began the 2.2 inline 5 20 valve. it was installed in the s2, rs2, Ur s4 and later the Ur s6. in the usa, we only saw the 2.2 230hp, 230tq motor in the Urs4 and s6. but in the rs2, it put out around 320hp. that was in Europe though. although there is a genuine rs2 in Pittsburgh, its not taken care of very well, and thats a whole different rant lol. the motor for all these modles is called a AAN.

the mods to make a stock AAN from the s4/s6 into a rs2 is very basic. the RS2 turbo, manifold, injectors, and intake bolt right up, and they just need a chipset to go along with the tuning and you have a full rs2 motor. for the most part.

now, they also made a inline 5 non turbo. which is most common in some early 100 and coupe quattros from 89,90,91. its called a 7a. some of the parts are interchangeable from the 7a to the AAN and back, but after all said and done it is better just to get the AAN.

a company in colorado put the AAN from a Ur s4, into a B5 a4 and use it for hill climbs and rally. i have wanted to do that for a long time, but i don't have the money right now. i think it would be the best of both worlds though.

the biggest differences between the B3 and the AAN is that the B3 is 10 valve, where the AAN is 20 valve. also the fuel system is a lot different. with those, the tuning/ecu's are going to be different. all around i think the AAN is better, but if you were trying to put a motor swap in a older than 89 audi, the 3B would work better.

and also, the AAN bolts to a B5 tranny, so you can get a 6 speed in there. the RS2 have a 6 speed but there big bank to get.

hope this helps a bit.

[branden]

chucka4, the 3B was only in the Audi 200 in 1991. The 5000's and early 200's all had 10V Turbo motors. Not 20V Turbo motors.

5 Cyl 2.2 10V Turbo Engine Code: MC-1 <5000's, 200's till 90
5 Cyl 2.2 20V Turbo Engine Code: 3B < audi 200 1991 ONLY
5 Cyl 2.2 20V Turbo Engine Code: AAN < S4/S6 from 1992-1995
5 Cyl 2.3 20V Engine Code: 7A < 90's and Coupe Quattros from 1990-91

Bottom line. Best motor is the 3B or the AAN. Any more detailed questions you have regarding the Audi 5 cyl. Go to Motorgeek.com That website is full of us old school Audi guys who are obsessed with the 3B and AAN. :D Or 034 motorsports for performance parts.

[Nebone]

Isn't 034 an engine code for one of the 2.2 I5 motors?

[s6sputnik]

Isn't 034 an engine code for one of the 2.2 I5 motors?

Nope 034 is Javads company! NOT a Motor!

Also Branden is correct about the 3B in the USA it was only available in the 1991 200q20v. It is very similar to the AAN motor of the '92 S4-97 S6. Coils vs distributer being the big difference!

[AudiA4_20T]

so say I found an AAN motor from a 91 Audi 200... That would be nearly the same as the URS4 motor?

[chucka4]

if it was a AAN it would be the exact same. but if it was out of a 200, its the 3b and they were a little different. what are you looking to put the motor into?

[BING]

The 3B from the 91 200 and is not the same as the AAN from the 92-97 urS Cars[IMG][/IMG] This is the 3B swapped into a Coupe Quattro with a Porsche intake in the same position where a stock intake would also be..

[BING]

Here is my AAN in my 93 urS4 that has a new turbo and header with airbox delete...

[e.Mills]

hey, no love for the NA I-5's on here? hehe... yeah, my '89 (pre-20v production run) has a wopping 130 hp! i just gotta find an old 5k around here and talk the mrs into letting me use it as a parts car

[Renaissance_S/C]

Isn't 034 an engine code for one of the 2.2 I5 motors?

Actually 034 is the first 3 numbers of the AUDI 20v motor code. Javad used this as the premise for the company name....pretty slick.

http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticle...nge/index.html

[BING]

Actually 034 is the first 3 numbers of the AUDI 20v motor code. Javad used this as the premise for the company name....pretty slick.

http://www.eurotuner.com/techarticle...nge/index.html

"Most" of the part numbers for my S4 begin with 034 . .I cant remember if that applies to the other 2 i have. I dont order many parts for them..

[branden]

034 Motorsports RULES!!!

[AudiA4_20T]

ok what came in the UR-Quattro? is that a 10v turbo?

[BING]

Ur-Quattro had a 10v turbo with CIS and mid 100's for horse , WX i believe was the engine code..There was also a gray market urQuattro that had a 200 hp 10vt, KG might be the engine code for that one.....IIRC !

[pilihp2]

wheres the love for the 115 horsepower 10v N/A I5 outa the 4000? its slow as balls but its......well its reliable right? i think thats all it has going for it...

and just a quick correction. the actual s1 was also known as the sport quattro in 1984. it was a I5 20v turbo motor putting out 300 horses. and then later changed to something like 350.

[Nebone]

Guy at work here has a 1987 Audi 4000 CS with a 10V turbo. It say for 10 years w/o use and he one day starts it up and uses it as a daily. Then, bunch of stuff started breaking and not its been sitting. It was pretty fast when it ran.

I knew 034 had something to do the with I5 motor.

[PRY4SNO]

I might be buying a '90 CQ with the 7a, wondering how reliable they are > 216,000 km?

How hard is it to find an AAN engine, and what's a reasonable cost? Can you not just turbo the 7a?

[chucka4]

i had one with about the same miles, it was still strong and i just kept up with minor things needed replacing, plugs and wires, oil, stuff like that. best thing would be to get it and try to replace whatever you can that is basic upgrades. filters, fluids, stuff like that.

[e.Mills]

wheres the love for the 115 horsepower 10v N/A I5 outa the 4000? its slow as balls but its......well its reliable right? i think thats all it has going for it...

that's what i'm talking about! no love for my little gas sipper (34 mpg's on last tank!)

[AudiA4_20T]

this is what I'm looking for right?

http://cnj.craigslist.org/car/713194486.html

he said its a 7a but I think its an AAN right?

[tecknoquatt]

[QUOTE=Renaissance_S/C;2672510]Actually 034 is the first 3 numbers of the AUDI 20v motor code. Javad used this as the premise for the company name....pretty slick.

exactly!

[tecknoquatt]

this is what I'm looking for right?

http://cnj.craigslist.org/car/713194486.html

he said its a 7a but I think its an AAN right?

nope thats defintely a 7A car. unless there is a swap done but dont think it would be priced that low if it did.

[tecknoquatt]

i Might Be Buying A '90 Cq With The 7a, Wondering How Reliable They Are > 216,000 Km?

How Hard Is It To Find An Aan Engine, And What's A Reasonable Cost? Can You Not Just Turbo The 7a?

Its Hard, But Not Super Hard. Reasonable Depends On Condition And What All Comes With It. I Paid 3200 For Mine In 2003. Came With Ecu That Was Chipped, Uncut Harness And Was Super Clean With Only 100k On It. Had It All But The Dp And Ic. Typically I See Them Go For 1800-3500 Either 3b Or Aan

[e.Mills]

^ tactic, let audifans, justfourrings, audiworld and your local listings become your friends. most of the older cars that i've found, and been interested in, are owned by guys in their 40's that have taken care of these cars since new... there's a premium to be paid, but the ol' school guys have been doing this shiz for awhile. also, be prepared to be super frugal about your mods and learn the art of DIY.

or, you could just buy a car to rally the hell out of and not care that it's a NG

[Jung]

there was a guy wiht a urs4 in eurotuner a few months back that had an rs2 turbo on the i5t. It put out llike 400whp or something like that. pretty good shit for not very much money. i really want a urs4

[Mcstiff]

The RS2 turbo will not support 400whp.

Turbocharging the 7a can be done, 034 makes a kit, the 7a block and head are very similar to the AAN (the AAN has a diferent h2o manifold but you can machine the 7a for it).

Your HP goal should determine if it makes sense to use the 7a or swap in a 3b or AAN. If you want much more then say 350whp you should consider h beam rods and better pistons which pretty much makes swapping out the 7a pointless.

FWIW, Javad's 80 had a built 7a until recently.

[AudiA4_20T]

so what exactly is the difference between the 3b and AAN?

[LowlyOilBurner]

AAN has individual coils (1per cyl), 3B has a dizzy. You can easily convert the 3B to individual coils. The intake mani's are different on the aan and the 3b as well.

[317ssayzarc]

3B heads dont crack valve seats too right?

[LowlyOilBurner]

huh? Good question!

[317ssayzarc]

I think I read that a while ago on Motorgeek, but let me look around to check... Ill post up later though, Im out for now

[317ssayzarc]

Heres where I found it!

http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=360

I wouldnt question them on I5's haha, so Id assume thats a good hard fact

[Mcstiff]

LOL WUT?

It says that they like 7a heads because they are rarely cracked. Where does it say that 3B heads do not crack? They are talking about bringing it the 3B spec regarding the water manifold ports.

We use the 7A head for heavily turbocharged applications, mainly for the reason that the 7A heads are RARELY cracked between valve seats due to the lack of stress the heads have seen, by performing this machining procedure the head is brought to basically 3B specification. The AAN uses a provision for a hall sensor on the camgear, this can be modified by the user or a 7A distributor can be used for the cam TDC signal to the stock ECU.

[PRY4SNO]

The RS2 turbo will not support 400whp.

Turbocharging the 7a can be done, 034 makes a kit, the 7a block and head are very similar to the AAN (the AAN has a diferent h2o manifold but you can machine the 7a for it).

Your HP goal should determine if it makes sense to use the 7a or swap in a 3b or AAN. If you want much more then say 350whp you should consider h-beam rods and better pistons which pretty much makes swapping out the 7a pointless.

FWIW, Javad's 80 had a built 7a until recently.

So what you're saying is that I should rebuild/balance my 7A and then add a turbo afterward? What's basic hp range (I know I know) for a built 7A with aggressive but streetable cams? 300-330 bhp?

I ask so I know what I'm working with before going FI. I.E. would I need to do a clutch before I add boost, etc.

[Mcstiff]

So 300 bhp = 225 AWHP. With a IC and a CDHG you should be able to hit that with a a 7a. Mine made about ~240bhp on 034's dyno with no IC and stock compression.

Take a look at my project thread, link in my sig.

[PRY4SNO]

Is that with or without turbo?

[Mcstiff]

Is that with or without turbo?

http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/view...5451&highlight

[PRY4SNO]

*chuckles*

I read that (a few weeks ago, actually) and noticed

-034 7a Stage 1 Turbo Kit, T3 60 trim turbo, 034 Stainless 7at manifold ~180whp

but wasn't sure if you specifically meant it was part of the dyno run from your earlier post.

Got it though.

I'm looking at a GT2871R with a well-planned build and some custom work here and there relating to the plumbing, piping and heating/cooling (I'm a steamfitter, dad is plumber, steam/gasfitter and we know a bunch of highly skilled stainless/aluminum/chrome and even some A-welders). Taking for granted I'll need to upgrade the ignition and fueling, brakes.

Gathering info for the build now while I catch up on deferred maintenance (PO) and restore/upgrade other aspects as needed.

So ~450awhp (or ~550 bhp) is not out of range, I'd assume? Looking for rally spec power with road car amenities.

I'm thinking a cross between RSCoupe's engine build and an OEM+ interior.

[PRY4SNO]

My inspiration, but I know cost and my needs for the car will change things along the way.

Props to RSCoupe and his work on this beautiful sister to JetJockey's car.

Engine
7A block bored to 83mm and align bored
O-ringed block
Crank polished and balanced
ARP main studs
ARP head studs
Scat forged rods
ARP rod bolts
JE pistons (8.5:1) - swain coated
RS2 main and rod bearings - swain coated
Copper/steel layered head gasket
7A cams
Heavy duty valve springs
Oversize valves
Titanium retainers
Lightweight lifters
Adjustable cam gear
034 Motorsport tubular exhaust manifold
Garrett GT30R turbo w/ 3” V-band discharge
034 Motorsport 3” downpipe w/ V-band connections
034 Motorsport custom exhaust (oval side exit) w/ V-band connections
Wagner intake manifold
VR6 throttle body w/ 034 adapter
96lb. injectors (1000cc) - I'll be running E-85
Bosch 044 fuel pump
Audi wastegate
Intercooler – 24”x12”x3”
Tial 50mm blow-off valve
034 Motorsport aluminum radiator
RS2 fan and shroud
034 Motorsport motor and trans mounts – motorsport spec
034 Motorsport snub mount
Fidanza aluminum flywheel
ARP flywheel bolts
Spec stage 3+ clutch

Electronics
034EFI IIc standalone engine management

Examples of compromises: I'd go with Tracksport density mounts, and a steel billet flywheel (OEM maybe?), different injectors... those kinds of things.