Crush rings: generic or audi specific?

[Stearnsy]

I searched the b6 forums and found that the crush ring on the oil drain plug should be replaced with a new one every oil change. Is this crush ring something I could pick up at Home Depot or Lowe's or do I need to go to the dealership? The first time I changed my own oil I went to the dealership for the filter and they charged me like an extra buck for it, so I used it. I had a hell of a time getting it off of the drain plug though.

Yesterday I went to Advanced Auto to buy a breaker bar as the tire iron I have at home will not fit into my USP wheels and the one that is supposed to be in my trunk isn't there. On my stroll around the store, I noticed they were running a Mobil 1 deal that included 5 quarts of oil and an oil filter for $27. I jumped on it and decided to change my oil as it needed to be in the near future regardless. I asked about the crush ring at the counter, but of course nobody had any idea. Anyway, I went home and changed my oil, reusing the old crush ring that's been on for about 8,000 miles. I had to take my skid plate off today for something else and found a small amount of oil on the top side of it. I took notice to this and walked back outside a few minutes ago to see if more had leaked, and sure enough, there's a small amount of oil on my driveway.

I know that I am going to have to put a new crush ring on in the coming days; hopefully tomorrow actually. The nearest dealership is about a 45 minute drive, and school is 45 minutes in the opposite direction. I really don't want to have to make that trip with the way gas prices are. Can I just go to Home Depot and find something similar? I know I can't take the crush ring that is on the car off and walk into the store with it, so does anyone know what I'm looking for and whether or not it would be available in a hardware store?

My next concern is reusing the oil that I just put into my car yesterday. Taking the drain plug out is obviously going to allow all of my oil to run out. Can I use a super clean pan and simply reuse it? Or do you think I could have a buddy stick his finger over the drain hole to plug it while I put the new crush ring on the plug? I figure only a quart or two would come out during the swap and I'd only be out another $15. My concern is over burning $20 worth of oil that is nearly brand new and another $30 to drive to the dealership and back.

P.S.: When I took the oil filter I purchased at the dealership for my first oil change (I've only had the car for 12,000 miles) off of the car yesterday, I noticed that it said something about being used on applications for model years 1982 and previous. Is this right or did they give me the wrong filter? It seems to have worked okay, just wondering.

If I have to go to the dealership to get it, I suppose I have to do what I have to do. No Bitchassness.

[vdubstreets]

wow that is the longest post ive ever seen for someone so small. Dont worrie about, just change it next time you do your oil change some people never change it. and if you cant find a drain plug with crush washer locally just order it online ECS, GAP someting like that.

i would get the oil filter from the dealer, they provide a larger capacity oil filter which is better for our motors. basically the dealers oil filters are bigger then the others. or again buy the oil filter online cheaper, buy in bulk if you plan on keeping the car.

[diagnosticator]

Try this first:

With the drain plug removed, heat the copper washer on the drain plug to a dull red hot temperature using a propane torch. Just the copper washer needs to glow dull red, not the plug. Allow the drain plug to air cool only, don't water quench. After the plug is cooled enough to handle, reinstall and torque the drain plug to spec, 30 Nm.

Heating the copper washer to a dull red hot temp, softens the copper again, and allows the washer to reseal when the plug is torqued to spec.

The copper washer is metric sized, you won't likely find one at the big box hardware stores. Ace hardware may have some however.

[alexza4]

is changing it really that nessesary? i've never changed mine and have no leak...

[Stearnsy]

Haha yes, that was a long post. Ask me what time it is and I'll tell you how to build a clock.

Anyway, I see some of you have never changed it. Maybe I'll torque it a little more and see how it goes from there. If not, I'll try the blow torch suggestion.

My main issue is losing all of the oil I just put in yesterday to get to the crush washer. Anyone have suggestions for that?

vdubstreets and diagnosticator - thx for the suggestions.

[diagnosticator]

You can use a clean drain pan, and provided no dirt has fallen into the oil, just poor the used oil back into the engine again after you deal with the copper washer and reinstalling the drain plug.

[n7plus1]

i ordered 10 copper crush washers from ECS

[drmarcj]

The oil on your skid plate/driveway is possibly just leftovers from what spilled out when you changed the filter. You might give it a couple of days and see if it just goes away before blaming the crush washer. You could also try cleaning off the oil pan area with carb cleaner, which will make it easier to see whether the dripping is coming from the drain plug or somewhere else.

[Ill 3.0]

i ordered 10 copper crush washers from ECS

I would just do this and order some other maintenance items (air filter etc.) so you can make better use of the shipping costs.

[absolutegtr]

never changed mine and no leak

[pyro]

gay problems for a gay person with a gay car...seems to fit together.

[lookaught]

Wow that was a long post for a question that I expected to be one sentence long!

First off, the Mobil filter is the same size as the oversize OEM ones (or really, really close to it) and is perfectly fine to use. YOu should be changing the oil every 5k miles and no more.

Second, the original crush washer that was on the plug was hard to remove b/c its not designed to be removed. Audi actually specs to replace the whole bolt/washer every time. HUGE waste of money there! I cut mine off with tin snips and use copper washers every oil change.

Definitely the best idea is to order 5-10 OEM filters from ECS or similar store and get 10 crush washer with the order. Then you never think about it again. I have like 20 extra crush washers sitting around in a drawer so I never have to think about reusing one.

I would not bother removing the drain plug to replace the leaky washer, honestly just tighten it a bit more to Gutentight specs, and call it a day. If it drips a little, no big deal. There have got to be 15 engaged threads on the drain hole, so overtorqueing the bolt to the point of stripping the pan is unlikely. Just dont use a huge wrench and you wont be able to apply enough torque to strip it. Using a torque wrench to tighten anything that has oil is a suspect process as all torque wrenches rely on the friction of the threads. When you add oil to the threads (which there will be, it is the oil drain afterall) it reduces the coef of friction and your torque wrench is no longer accurate and will underestimate how much torque you are applying. This, in my opinion, is why having a good "feel" for tightening a bolt is a skill that every hack mechanic should develop. The only way to achieve truely accurate torque on a bolt is to measure the elongation (stretch) when you know the tensile stregth... this is how many, many airplane parts are assembled and many critical parts of your car (axle bolts, flywheel bolts, etc). Using things like locktite and then torquing to spec frequently overtightens the bolts. Thus, gutentight, the german torque!

[diagnosticator]

I agree with most of your advice "lookaught", with one exception. Specifically, regarding the torque value for the oil pan drain plug, I believe that the specified torque value is determined for oiled threads. After all, it would not make sense to specify a torque value based on dry threads, for an internally threaded oil pan drain hole, as it would be practically impossible to restore a "dry" thread condition with a just utilized oil drain hole, right? Stated another way, it is illogical for the factory to specify a torque value for the oil drain plug, that is based on dry threads, as that condition cannot exist in service. And, if that was the case, the specification could never be reasonably satisfied, therefore it would have no relevance to the conditions prevalent for the assembly in service.
In addition, in my experience, practically all threaded fasteners and especially critical fasteners, such as used in the engine, are all torqued or pre torqued, for "turn of the angle" final torquing, based on lubricated threads. The Factory requirements for lubricated threads prerequisite to torquing, is emphasized in the manuals.
Finally, as a matter of Proper Practice concerning machine assembly, torqued fasteners are without exception, require thread lubrication prior to fastener assembly. This is because the static and dynamic friction in the threads varies over a wide range with dry threads, and especially when thread damage occurs like galling, smearing and seizure that result from lubricated sliding friction in threads. Thread lubrication is necessary to minimize the variation in static and dynamic friction and to prevent the destruction of the thread form profile that would occur from galling and smearing of the metal surfaces if lubricated.
In general terms, automotive and industrial machine fasteners are torqued with the threads lubricated with a specified lubricant.

I guess this is the "Thread of Windy Posts", it happens occasionally.

[Stearnsy]

Okay, so..

I'll check underneath the car tomorrow morning to see if more "fresh" oil has leaked out. If not, I can safely assume that it's just residual oil from what may have come out while removing the filter. If there is, I'll try torquing the plug a little more. If that doesn't work (which will be determined by whether there's oil on the driveway again), I'll buy a new crush washer.

Now, does anybody know what size the crush washer is? I want to try to go to Ace Hardware or Home Depot before making the trip to the dealership. Can someone like, measure one of the many you guys seem to have lying around?

[Stearnsy]

gay problems for a gay person with a gay car...seems to fit together.

Yo Jeremy, check out this picture I found on your FQuick..

[pyro]

hahaha classic. when do you get back in tampa?
*switches over to PM mode so as not to whore up the thread*

[lookaught]

I agree with most of your advice "lookaught", with one exception. Specifically, regarding the torque value for the oil pan drain plug, I believe that the specified torque value is determined for oiled threads.

In addition, in my experience, practically all threaded fasteners and especially critical fasteners, such as used in the engine, are all torqued or pre torqued, for "turn of the angle" final torquing, based on lubricated threads. The Factory requirements for lubricated threads prerequisite to torquing, is emphasized in the manuals.

That does make perfect sense. Frankly though, sometimes Im just not too sure what the engineers were thinking when they put stuff in the manual. Take my Aprilia for instance, the engineers who wrote the service manual EFFED UP THE OIL CHANGE PROCEDURE (these are Italians though...)! Its a dry sump bike, and they didnt mention the need to drain the oil tank. Needless to say, plenty of folks have overfilled their bikes with 1.5 times the correct level because of this. Way to go Aprilia!

I have seen notes that mention using thread lubricant... on rod bolts for instance b/c they require a LOT of torque on a small bolt. Most shade tree mechanics have a frequent tendency to overtighten everything trying to be safe and destroy things in the process (myself included... aluminum threads terrify me). The oil plug may have factored in the oil lubricant into the torque value. It makes sense to do so, and I hope they did so. But I have no idea if they actually did, and I'll just turn it until its good and tight and leave it at that.

BTW, on an unrelated note, I had emailed you months and months ago about a rear taillamp bulb that constantly triggered the "Rear lamp out" warning. In the end, it was the bulb itself... the previous owner installed the wrong bulb and even though it worked the resistance was too high. Swapped bulbs with the correct one, and no more warning! Thansk for the tip on the resistance!

[dougyfresh]

a good source for OEM oil filters is here: http://germanfilters.com


I advise against the ECS magnetic drain plug. The washer leaks. The chamfer on the head of the oil drain plug is not the right size. Its too big and thus does not seat properly on the oil pan.

Mine leaked on and off for a while. This past December I went back to an OEM drain plug. I'm about to try the 034 magnetic drain plug. I have yet to install it and will most likely do that this weekend. We'll see how it works. Worst case is I go back to the OEM drain plug.



Angle of turn is typically a more accurate method of achieving proper torque than a torque value (nm or ft-lbf). Good and tight on the oil pan works for me.

[Ill 3.0]

I advise against the ECS magnetic drain plug. The washer leaks. The chamfer on the head of the oil drain plug is not the right size. Its too big and thus does not seat properly on the oil pan.

Mine leaked on and off for a while. This past December I went back to an OEM drain plug. I'm about to try the 034 magnetic drain plug. I have yet to install it and will most likely do that this weekend.

Interesting, I was about post it worked well for me. I've used it for two changes and haven't noticed a single drop come out. Also my last change had some visible metal bits stuck to the magnetic piece so I guess it does actually do something. Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it and will consider the 034 plug.

[n7plus1]

never changed mine and no leak

a crush washer can only be crushed once. Some people may never have problems not replacing it...i just choose to b/c its cheap

[FLASHMSTRC]

I've read all over to buy the OEM oil filter, but I need to do an oil change today and saw the Mobil 1 M-301 is used for the 1.8T engines. I have a 3.0 Liter B6...Advanced Auto Parts pulled up a Purolator 5 Star that I bought...has anybody used these?

[flatfourone]

I would not change something that doesn't need to be changed. If you have a leak, sure, go for it. Otherwise, why? I don't change my wiper blades once a month.