Throwing CEL after downpipe upgrade

[jaykato]

As the title says, I am now throwing a CEL after putting in my Labree downpipes. I put in a GIAC tune, but it didnt help the CEL issue. Curious if anyone has been able to successfully space the O2 sensors to stop the CEL? I know there is not much room for spacing out the sensors behind the cats (I'm getting the below threshold error code), but has anyone successfully done this by rotating the DPs or something similar? I've noticed on some of the Subaru and A4 forums that people have used a spark plug non-fowler to accomplish the task.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. I know it's not the end of the world to have a CEL for this issue, but I just dont like looking at it.

Thank you in advance.

[jaykato]

After a bit more research, anyone use one of these?

http://www.42draftdesigns.com/faq.htm#test

[tadhgbrosnan]

Sorry, no insight but I hear you on the "just don't like looking at it(CEL)" part. I really, REALLY want DPs for the added sound but, man! it seems like so many have had CELs and other issues as a result of the upgrade. That, coupled with questionable HP gains has me leaning towards a PASS on this mod. I bet it sounds incredible, though!

[WinterRunner]

As the title says, I am now throwing a CEL after putting in my Labree downpipes. I put in a GIAC tune, but it didnt help the CEL issue. Curious if anyone has been able to successfully space the O2 sensors to stop the CEL? I know there is not much room for spacing out the sensors behind the cats (I'm getting the below threshold error code), but has anyone successfully done this by rotating the DPs or something similar? I've noticed on some of the Subaru and A4 forums that people have used a spark plug non-fowler to accomplish the task.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated. I know it's not the end of the world to have a CEL for this issue, but I just dont like looking at it.

Thank you in advance.

http://vastperformance.com/shop/prod...products_id=68

These are the one's I'm using, they work well, and I got em both shipped for 45.00 even.

[SuperAvant]

First thing is first - what is the code?

[jaykato]

http://vastperformance.com/shop/prod...products_id=68

These are the one's I'm using, they work well, and I got em both shipped for 45.00 even.

Winter, did that replace the O2 sensor behind the cat? If so, did you just zip tie the sensor in the engine bay?

[2PUTT]

the main reason for the post DP CEL code(s) is that the O2 sensors were switched. try swapping them first to see if that fixes it.

[jaykato]

Actually Winter, it's a spacer right? If so, was there enough room to fit both O2 sensors with the spacers?

And, 2Putt, wouldnt it show up as a swap on a VAG-COM? Right now I just have the below threshold code. That would be very nice if they were just swapped.

[SuperAvant]

Actually Winter, it's a spacer right? If so, was there enough room to fit both O2 sensors with the spacers?

And, 2Putt, wouldnt it show up as a swap on a VAG-COM? Right now I just have the below threshold code. That would be very nice if they were just swapped.

It would show up as one bank running lean while one bank is running rich. Below threshold could be another possibility...

[2PUTT]

are they new or used DPs?

[jaykato]

They're used, meaning I was expecting to have some sort of issue with O2 sensors. But I did save a lot of cash.

I am just looking to find some way to trick the O2 sensors to not throw a CEL. The cats themselves looked fine though when I put them in. That being said, it is likely that they arent working as well as they did new, equaling the CEL.

[2PUTT]

They're used, meaning I was expecting to have some sort of issue with O2 sensors. But I did save a lot of cash.

I am just looking to find some way to trick the O2 sensors to not throw a CEL. The cats themselves looked fine though when I put them in. That being said, it is likely that they arent working as well as they did new, equaling the CEL.

Sia Bani (AW) used to have Labree DPs. he had very similar issues. it was a flaw in the initial design. you may want to talk to Danny @ Fast Intentions to get some details since he was originally the other half of the Labree partnership.

[Jdubya]

You can also use spark plug arrestors. You can get them at just about any auto parts store. I used one on my TT when I put the high flow on there. No more CEL.

[jaykato]

I am going to try Wayne's angle block that I linked to above. I would have tried the non-foulers or the VAST CELiminator, but I have very little room to work with and the angle block put the sensors at a right angle to give the needed space. I'll keep everyone updated to see if it works out for me.

Thank you for everyone's help.

[bhvrdr]

dont plan on o2 spacers or o2 simulators working for more then 200 miles or so. As for the programming, GIAC does not cancel out the low threshold CEL from downpipes so dont worry about it being an issue. APR and Revo do this. According to Labree their cats dont cause a CEL but they dont appear to use a very high quality cat and even their more restrictive 300 and 400cpsi cats seem to cause them occasionally. You can either get APR or Revo or get new downpipes. Make sure it is just an inefficiency code though as you'd want to rule out plugged and broken cats but likely youd be betting misfires.

cheers! mike

[Jdubya]

My O2 spacer worked for thousands of miles with no CEL's at all.

[WinterRunner]

I was told that ANY software for the S4 wont fix the CEL. I spoke directly with APR, and indirectly on GIAC. The o2 sensor spacers work very well. I just got mine in today, I would suggest trying em out at 49$ a pair shipped from VAST. There is plenty of room to fit both the upper and lower o2 spacer. Hope this helps.

[intoblue]

I am not clear as to other peoples experience with downpipes, but my car puts down 291whp with a full labree exhaust system and a drop in k&n filter.
So i would venture to say that there are marked improvements over stock with these exhaust sytems. In additon i have driven my car for roughly 5000 miles without throwing a cel, but since i have switched out to straight pipes i have thrown a cel once and reset it and it has not come back since.

[S-Fore]

I put Milltek DP's on my car and have no issues, never had a CEL (Knocking on my desk with one hand and typing with the other). I do have a tip, not sure if that has any impact on it. 8K mi and I do have GIAC Flash.

[WinterRunner]

I put Milltek DP's on my car and have no issues, never had a CEL (Knocking on my desk with one hand and typing with the other). I do have a tip, not sure if that has any impact on it. 8K mi and I do have GIAC Flash.

Milltek Dps with the catback, or are you still running the stock exhaust?

[S-Fore]

Full Exhaust. GMG/Labree, 2.5" all the way back.

[Dodge2Dub]

dont plan on o2 spacers or o2 simulators working for more then 200 miles or so. As for the programming, GIAC does not cancel out the low threshold CEL from downpipes so dont worry about it being an issue. APR and Revo do this. According to Labree their cats dont cause a CEL but they dont appear to use a very high quality cat and even their more restrictive 300 and 400cpsi cats seem to cause them occasionally. You can either get APR or Revo or get new downpipes. Make sure it is just an inefficiency code though as you'd want to rule out plugged and broken cats but likely youd be betting misfires.

cheers! mike

LaBree is now using 400 cel ceramic cats because they have proven to be better on our cars then the metal versions used by FI and APR. Go figure, a cheaper cat working better than its expensive counterpart.

[jaykato]

but since i have switched out to straight pipes i have thrown a cel once and reset it and it has not come back since.

Straight pipes and no CEL??? Maybe my O2 sensors are swapped.

[GAR_S4]

I would try swapping the sensors and clearing it and see if it comes back....But there could also be a small chance the downpipes you bought are burned up. Happened to mine and my friends Labree dp's both around 25k miles. Sent them back for new cats and the CEL went away almost instantly. (I was getting Low Threshold and Misfire Codes)

[jaykato]

I am just getting the low threshold fortunately. Car runs great, so that's a plus. No backfiring at all, I just hate looking at the stupid "lightening-bolted engine" CEL. If I have a burnt cat so be it, I paid very little for the downpipes (maybe that's why, hmmm...).

[emericr]

I am with GARS4. I bought used DPs and I got the same CEL error. After months of debate and putting fowlers and having the dealer check everything (very friendly by the way for once), it ended up being a bad cat. Learn from my experience and avoid the hassles.
The easiest way is to uninstall the DP that is throwing the CEL and visually inspect the interior of the cat. Mine had a big hole in it.
Shipped the DP back to Fast Intentions. Danny put a new cat and no problem ever since.
By the way, Danny is a great guy and his product is top notch.

[bhvrdr]

LaBree is now using 400 cel ceramic cats because they have proven to be better on our cars then the metal versions used by FI and APR. Go figure, a cheaper cat working better than its expensive counterpart.

So says they? I dont know how a more restrictive 400 cell cat would be better then a metal 200cpsi cat that doesnt throw a CEL. The only reason to use more restrictive cats is bc the quality of the cat is such that it requires you pick the 400cpsi one in order to not throw CELs. Labree had many cat failures ajnd CELS with their 300cpsi cats.

cheers! Mike

[Dodge2Dub]

So says they? I dont know how a more restrictive 400 cell cat would be better then a metal 200cpsi cat that doesnt throw a CEL. The only reason to use more restrictive cats is bc the quality of the cat is such that it requires you pick the 400cpsi one in order to not throw CELs. Labree had many cat failures ajnd CELS with their 300cpsi cats.

cheers! Mike

Agreed, but I was eating FI cats at the rate of a set every two months.

Since switching to the more restrictive cats, labree claims no failures. At the very least, they offer a one year warranty on the part as opposed to FI's 3 month conditional warranty.

[audiblack]

I am just getting the low threshold fortunately. Car runs great, so that's a plus. No backfiring at all, I just hate looking at the stupid "lightening-bolted engine" CEL. If I have a burnt cat so be it, I paid very little for the downpipes (maybe that's why, hmmm...).

I have the exact same problem. CEL with the low threshold code. I bought my APR DPs second hand as well.

Is there a way to only change the cat in the downpipe at a local exhaust shop or the bad cat on the DP simply cant be fixed?

Thanks

[91gl]

dont plan on o2 spacers or o2 simulators working for more then 200 miles or so. As for the programming, GIAC does not cancel out the low threshold CEL from downpipes so dont worry about it being an issue. APR and Revo do this. According to Labree their cats dont cause a CEL but they dont appear to use a very high quality cat and even their more restrictive 300 and 400cpsi cats seem to cause them occasionally. You can either get APR or Revo or get new downpipes. Make sure it is just an inefficiency code though as you'd want to rule out plugged and broken cats but likely youd be betting misfires.

cheers! mike

my buddy has been daily driving his strait piped s4 for over a year now with spacers his dad made for him and not a cel yet.

i just got my cat-less dp's put in with the VAST spacers and all is fine. (knock on wood)

[bhvrdr]

my buddy has been daily driving his strait piped s4 for over a year now with spacers his dad made for him and not a cel yet.

i just got my cat-less dp's put in with the VAST spacers and all is fine. (knock on wood)

They are more miss then hit but since you have Revo you wouldnt get a CEL anyways. APR and Revo take away the cat inefficiency code with their software.

cheers! Mike

[WinterRunner]

They are more miss then hit but since you have Revo you wouldnt get a CEL anyways. APR and Revo take away the cat inefficiency code with their software.

cheers! Mike

I was told by an authorized APR dealer that they WOULD NOT clear the codes. Thats one of the main reasons why I went to get the flash at YarrowSports, which I couldn't get anyways because they supposidly don't support the 2005.5 model with a flash(not enough memory?). So I went ahead and got some Vast CELiminator spacers. They work fine...

[91gl]

They are more miss then hit but since you have Revo you wouldnt get a CEL anyways. APR and Revo take away the cat inefficiency code with their software.

cheers! Mike

thats good to know about revo and apr but my buddy has GIAC and never threw a cel because of his lack of cats

[audiblack]

I got REVO tuning. Code went away then came back on a few days later and its still there

?????

[WinterRunner]

I got REVO tuning. Code went away then came back on a few days later and its still there

?????

Same boat as you AudiBlack
Since my REVO flash, I took the Spacers off, and all was well for about 150 miles, then the CEL came back on.... Any idea why the REVO software ISNT taking care of the CAT deficiency codes? Thanks....