High-end Engine Oil Comparisons

[PRY4SNO]

After reading a plethora of data on oils, I figured I'd post here to help un-cross my eyes.

How much of a difference will we notice with respect to cold-startup or viscosity breakdown under hard driving/extreme conditions/long change intervals, etc?

IS there a way to quantify this without sending each away for analysis after use?

Or does it come to: buy the cheapest one of these readily available?

Last, and kind of stupid but here goes: if I have one kind of oil in my crank should it be flushed out before adding another brand or formula to avoid cross-contamination?

Thanks!

-- ELF Excellium DiD 5w-40 (FTW!!!!)

-- ELF Excellium 5w-40 (think it's LDX version)

-- Total Energy Quartz 9000

-- Motul 8100 X-cess 5w-40

-- Redline, product comparison

And just for shites and giggles, here's the vaunted Mobil 1 0w-40 (pg2)

Cheers!

[AudiA4Turbo22]

so Mobil 1 sucks?? i thought it was good stuff!

[PRY4SNO]

I didn't say that. Outright.

[AudiA4Turbo22]

^^so yes it sucks or no it doesn't?? i really wanna know so i make a better move next time!

[A4TL]

what does bmw use now that their lineup does 15K (first) and thereafter oil changes?

thats some oil to take up to 300F oil temps (twin turbo) and last that long.

i think audi uses the same stuff. must be super hardcore to not break down with such punishment

[PRY4SNO]

Kirk:

I think that it really comes down to us just being fanatics. Most of us don't race our cars. Therefore we don't need Group V oils... but do we really need Audis either? I mean, a Kia would pick my groceries up and get me to work... but I want something better.

That's why I chose not to go the Mobil 1 route. From my searching here and at Bob Is The Oil Guy, the above represents what I've narrowed down as good choices. Probably can't go wrong either which way.

Anyone have any answers to my questions in the OP?

[PRY4SNO]

what does bmw use now that their lineup does 15K (first) and thereafter oil changes?

thats some oil to take up to 300F oil temps (twin turbo) and last that long.

i think audi uses the same stuff. must be super hardcore to not break down with such punishment

Really? No BS?

That is some amazing stuff! Or are we going to be seeing BMW replacing a lot of angry people's engines 2-3 years down the road?
Hellooooooooo sludge.

[AudiA4Turbo22]

thanx dude! i'm a huge fanatic man! so for me it matters, so the first oil FTW!

[3ohAvant]

the only real way to see how good those oils are.. virgin analysis, then a used analysis. or you can read up on the reports that people have done before on those oils. they are pretty readily available. think BITOG.

I would not trust what BMW says about their oils, and would definitely not run it to 15K. Go check up on what various UOAs say about oil in those BMWs.

[CO AVANT]

I read through a whole oil analysis on a ton of used oils on the same car for the same duration. I wish to the life of me where I read it because it was good info, but I forgot. I do know the company that did the analysis is this...
http://www.dysonanalysis.com/home.html

Mobile 1 0W40 is your run of the mill standard grade oil. A couple dyson analysis sheets I've seen has proved this (1.8T VW). I think even valvoline performed better. The oils tactic posted in his original post are all excellent oils from what data has shown on viscosity, shear loss, flash point, etc...

...and yes I agree, 98% of the people who drive audi's don't need a group V oil. Personally I fall in that 2% range with the oil temps I see up here under hard driving. No engine "likes" 10000ft

[dougyfresh]

Tactic12:
Know anything about Total Quartz Energy 9000 5w40?
http://worldimpex.com/parts/total-qu...lt_911899.html

The Elf --> Total PDF shows its the same as Elf Excellium Full-Tech:
http://worldimpex.com/assets/partdocuments/TOTAL.pdf

How is Full-Tech different than DID?



Wonder if its better than the Elf Excellium DID 5W40. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on some Elf Excellium DID 5W40 from my good friends at Germanautoparts.com but I saw that Total (Elf rebranded) Quartz energy 9000 oil for a killer price

[F16HTON]

Here is a legit, independent oil test.

http://home.comcast.net/~dthaus/Oil%20Tests.pdf

[04QuattroTurbo]

I think Mobil 1 doesn't suck, it is still better than conventional. But it is one of the first full synthetics and is somewhat older technology. Like Techron or techroline for Chevron or Quattro...LOL

[04QuattroTurbo]

Here is a legit, independent oil test.

http://home.comcast.net/~dthaus/Oil%20Tests.pdf

Isn't this the same bearing test done by Duralube a few years back? I know Royal Purple has shown this test on their website. So should we use RP for our cars? It is not on the recommended fluid list.

[dougyfresh]

Tactic12:
Know anything about Total Quartz Energy 9000 5w40?
http://worldimpex.com/parts/total-qu...lt_911899.html

Found the spec sheet: Total Quartz Energy 9000 5w40

Its about the same as the Excellium DID 5w-40 but doesn't meet the 505.01 spec that the DID meets. 505.01 is the direct injection diesel spec which my roommate's TDI Golf requires. We're just going to order a bunch of DID oil from germanautoparts.com and call it a day.

I am reading that review Greg posted...

[F16HTON]

Isn't this the same bearing test done by Duralube a few years back? I know Royal Purple has shown this test on their website. So should we use RP for our cars? It is not on the recommended fluid list.

To get on the recommended list, you pay VAG.

[3ohAvant]

FWIW, Doug, you read the list wrong.

Elf NF (LDX) 5-40 is now Total Quartz Energy 9000 5-40.
Plenty of people w/ the 1.8t are using this. And they are really happy with it. It seems to be the same stuff as the elf NF (LDX)

DID 5-40 is now Quartz INEO MC3 5-30.
I am running this in my 3.0. I'm getting 24Mpg now. Thats up from about 22Mpg. (average) I used to run GC 0-30 in this car. I think the Total stuff is every bit as good.

Full Tech is now Total Quartz Energy 9000 0-30.
Not too much info on this oil. Not too many people buy this one.

The oil that I have yet to try or have someone try is the Total Quartz INEO 504/507 5-30.

Try this link. Is is the same PDF, only it has another page on it.

http://lubrify.com/total-synthetic-oil/ELFtoTOTAL.pdf

While you are at it, if you're interested, here is another PDF in case you're bored and wanted something to read. Its more marketing fluff than anything else.



Its probably easy if you right click and save as.

[Jet Jockey]

To get on the recommended list, you pay VAG.

Not exactly...

However you need to have them test your oils on their engines and it cost several hundred thousand dollars per oil type/grade per engine type! So yes it cost a lot of money just to be on the manufacturer's recommended list and this is valid for every car manufacturer.

Then these tests have to be repeated after several years all over again to be kept on the list.

[dougyfresh]

Benny,
Thanks. Guess I did read it wrong.

Why is the Total Quartz INEO MC3 a 5w-30 and the equivalent DID a 5w40? EDIT: nevermind. I'm reading the 2nd page of that Total Marketing PDF and it explains it.

Guess I'll eventually start using Total oil but germanautoparts.com still has the Elf DID and they are right around the corner for me so I'm going to get that. Plus it meets my roommate's TDI requirements (505.01). Calling them today to pick up 8 5L containers (we like to keep a good stockpile in my basement since we drive so much).


Is this the 2nd PDF you speak of? I didn't see a link until I tried to quote you.
http://lubrify.com/total-synthetic-o...-Marketing.pdf

[Maverick]

What about amsoil ?

[CO AVANT]

I've heard good things about amsoil. 2 stroke and 4 stroke motorsports guys swear by it.

[Maverick]

That's what I am going to run after I am S/C'ed

Jordan, what oil weight do you run right now? heavy weight? like 20W-50 something?

[Nebone]

Quality of oil depends on base stock used. I talked to a knowlegible guy from KermaTDI at Waterfest and said that Synthetics like Castrol Syntec are not fully synthetic oils and so aren't the ELF products, but ELF is made from a better base stock. He had some Lubro-Moly oil and said that was real synthetic.

First of all, oil becomes dirty because of the soot that gets through by the cylinder walls. Proven, that soot has very good lubrication properties and does not start to become problematic because of the amount of it in oil until around 20,000 KM.

[Maverick]

I know what you are saying, I contacted that guy several times, he never got back to me. called, emailed. lol
maybe I should buy some from you instead if you can get in touch with him.

what oil weight are you running now with your BT B5

[CO AVANT]

I run 5W40 which is plenty for what we do with our cars.

[04QuattroTurbo]

To get on the recommended list, you pay VAG.

I was ill-advised by a another member a few weeks back then to not use Royal Purple, claiming it was not designed for our cars. I used it before on my 03 Tacoma and it was short of miraculous. After a 8000-mile interval oil change, the purple oil looked exactly like the stuff I was putting in from the bottle. Amazing. I think I will be using it on my next oil change. BTW, during the 8000-mile interval, I did change the filter at 3000 mile-interval per Royal Purple's recommendation and just added a quart. But for the Audi, I think I will stick to the normal regiment of 5K and change both, it really is not that much more expensive to do so.

[dougyfresh]

/\
Another option is to have frequent oil analysis done if you want to run Royal Purple to prove to yourself that it is safe on your engine.

I'm getting an oil analysis done with my next oil change. So, about 800miles on the dino oil and a tad over 2,000miles on the new motor. That oil change will also be me switching to synthetic. I'll then get another oil analysis done around 10,000miles later. Just to keep an eye on how things are progressing. $22.50 an analysis and its interesting data for me (have some background in tribology and coefficient of friction on nickel based alloys). Am I taking it to the extreme? Maybe, but I want to learn and make sure my $$ was spent with great success.

[CO AVANT]

I'm getting a analysis done as well when I get back from my trip. Blackstone Labs is sending me a test kit right now.

[04QuattroTurbo]

I'm getting a analysis done as well when I get back from my trip. Blackstone Labs is sending me a test kit right now.

Sounds, great, how do I become a "pepper" too?

[dougyfresh]

Yeah. I just emailed them about an hour ago to get a test kit.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

[Ill 3.0]

/\ Am I taking it to the extreme? Maybe, but I want to learn and make sure my $$ was spent with great success.

no. Even someone such as myself with very little inorganic chem knowledge can appreciate their personalized reports. Some of the best bang-for-buck money I feel like I've ever spent.

[Ill 3.0]

That's what I am going to run after I am S/C'ed

FWIW I had a very good Blackstone report from Elf 5W40 with 5k miles, which was same oil the supercharger was installed on. They even said the motor was aging well compared to stock motor. I've thought about Amsoil, but the Elf/Total seems to be an unbeatable price for the quality.

[Maverick]

how much is Amsoil per quart?
I should do the blackstone report. I want to use the best oil to start when I slap on the S/C. don't suggest mobil 1, lol

[vc1492a]

if im going to use royal purple, which weight should I use?

[dougyfresh]

Guess I'll eventually start using Total oil but germanautoparts.com still has the Elf DID and they are right around the corner for me so I'm going to get that. Plus it meets my roommate's TDI requirements (505.01). Calling them today to pick up 8 5L containers (we like to keep a good stockpile in my basement since we drive so much).

As a follow-up, and for closure:

I bought Total Quartz INEO MC3 5w-30 and will be using that in my Avant. Found a good deal at autohausaz.com $34.79 for 5L with free shipping if you spend $50. I spent $450 worth. Haha. eight 5L containers of oil coming my way along with some spark plugs and oil filters for my roommate's TDI.

[vc1492a]

never mind, found correct type.

[Nebone]

How long does the oil analysis take from ordering the test kit to receiving the results?

[dougyfresh]

How long does the oil analysis take from ordering the test kit to receiving the results?

You should get the results via email if I am not mistaken. I'd budget two weeks from when you ship out the oil to be conservative. But that is a wild guess.

[Ill 3.0]

shipping time plus a day or two

[04QuattroTurbo]

My kit is also on its way...cool. BTW, to expand on what I said about this bearing load test that 400HPA4 has brought up...this was the same test done by Duralube in the 90's. They even had the "Duralube Challenge". They wanted an oil manufacturer to beat their product. What ever happened to Duralube?