oil recommend

[LLOYDskeez]

newbie on audi world
what oil do you guys recommend on 1.8t fwd?

[CO AVANT]

Any Group V oils. Mobile 1 0W40 is NOT a full sythetic anymore for the masses. I would recommend: Motul, Elf, Redline, German Castrol. 40 weight for summer months. I personally run Motul 100% synthetic group V 5W40

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

[sloweryucf]

newbie on audi world
what oil do you guys recommend on 1.8t fwd?

A full synthetic that meets the vw standards in your owners manual.

The mobil 0W-40 meets that standards. Some audi dealers use Castrol 5w30 or something like that.

[audipotential]

Motul 5W40. You KNOW its good when it says VW approved on the back

[NyteEscape]

Any Group V oils. Mobile 1 0W40 is NOT a full sythetic anymore for the masses. I would recommend: Motul, Elf, Redline, German Castrol. 40 weight for summer months. I personally run Motul 100% synthetic group V 5W40

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

so don't use mobil 0w40?

[alexza4]

Yep Motul 5W40 is the way to go.

[djs]

ELF. This stuff is great. It's a good cleaning oil that will help prevent any sludge from forming. It also runs cooler than some other oils. You might not be able to find it under the ELF brand as they just renamed it Total. I just did an oil change and picked up 5L for about $27. I've been using it for 15-20k miles and highly recommend it.

[CO AVANT]

so don't use mobil 0w40?

I will never use it again after reading all the threads in that oil site I posted above. Mobile 1 0W40 is not so special like everyone here thinks... it fairs well don't get me wrong, but there are much better real full synthetic oils out there with much better lubricants in them. I will only use oils now that are 100% ester based. Redline is not 100% ester based, but still a good oil. For you, the specific motul would be a good choice.

http://www.eurosyntheticoils.com/

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

[EErie B6]

ok, ill play...

I will only use oils now that are 100% ester based.

you sound very 'sure' of this decision.

I have looked, searched, and read... and im am now forced to ask why?

what specifically sold you?

what information have i over looked or missed?

what do you have against PAO based oils?

[aaaudiprotein]

Yeah, ELF and Motul.

[initiala4]

MOtul

http://turbofrogperformance.com/Prod...05.01_5w40.htm

Elf ELF Excellium LDX 5W40
http://turbofrogperformance.com/Prod...ne/ELF_Oil.htm

Been using Elf and so far it isnt bad. Motul is great too!

[CO AVANT]

ok, ill play...
you sound very 'sure' of this decision.

I have looked, searched, and read... and im am now forced to ask why?

what specifically sold you?

what information have i over looked or missed?

what do you have against PAO based oils?

It's a better oil plain and simple, no need to get into details at this point. There are many variables that can make or break an oil and its quality. If you read the website I posted above in extent you would know this. I don't need to repeat information you can click on and read for yourself. I only use basic castrol gtx 5w30 dino oil for engine break-in's since you don't want a slippery oil for break-in (so your piston rings seal to the fullest) and you are just gargling and spitting oil since the intervals on break-in are so many (at least how it should be done), so I don't personally have anything bad to say about PAO based oils, but I know what works best after break-in..... high end modern race cars use that full ester blend, so it must be what's working best right now under extreme conditions. A lot of your normal off the shelf oils have gone down in quality (lubricant properties, etc) over the past years from what I've read and talked about with some fellow audi mechanic friends.

[a2gtinut]

I run Motul X-lite 0W-30.

[EErie B6]

Look, my first post was simply asking a question that I myself could not find an answer to, one that perhaps a fellow Audi owner could… ironically, the very reason why forums like this one exist. (Imagine that?!) I was not trying to upset anyone or call them out. On the same note, I was also not looking to be belittled by them either. But, since you want to play that way, let’s have some fun…


Useless… comment #1

It's a better oil plain and simple, no need to get into details at this point.

Thank you for such an informative and technical reply. But I don’t see any facts here… only one persons opinion… and what makes it better than mine? It takes very little knowledge to make a stupid comment.


Useless… comment #2

There are many variables that can make or break an oil and its quality.

No kidding? If not then all oils would be the same wouldn’t they?


Useless… comment #3

If you read the website I posted above in extent you would know this. I don't need to repeat information you can click on and read for yourself.

1) Prior to my first reply\post, I did search and read on those sites and several others for over 2hrs, and did not find a suitable answer.
2) you posted an entire forum, not a specific thread pertaining to my question… or anyone else’s. Where is the help in that? You might as well have said “go search vortex, I’m sure they have your answer somewhere.”


Somewhat informative, but still useless in this instance… comment #4

I only use basic castrol gtx 5w30 dino oil for engine break-in's since you don't want a slippery oil for break-in (so your piston rings seal to the fullest) and you are just gargling and spitting oil since the intervals on break-in are so many (at least how it should be done), so I don't personally have anything bad to say about PAO based oils,

When did I ask anything about breaking in an engine? And what on earth does it have to do with a PAO base stock, that has any relevance to my question?


Narrow-minded… comment #5

but I know what works best after break-in..... high end modern race cars use that full ester blend, so it must be what's working best right now under extreme conditions.

It might be what works best under extreme conditions… but there are a few things to keep in mind here. Many “race engine” oils contain little to no detergents (detergents keep motors clean, and particle build up away), only anti-wear agents. Their primary concern is how much horsepower they can produce, not how many 100s of thousands of miles can it go before it is worn out. Races are won by how much power you make and how well you put it to use, not by how long it lasts… “race engines” see frequent oil changes as well (can you say: after every race?) street motors do not. They are also torn down, *cleaned*, and rebuilt often, so any deposits that may have accumulated would simply be washed away… further lessening the need for detergents. Why use something containing detergents, that might be slightly less “slippery” and lose possible HP when you don’t have to?(it might cost you a win). A 300k+ rebuild means nothing …but, for a street engine, it’s a worthwhile trade off.
Lol @ “high end modern race cars”… For the record, we are talking about an engine made by Volkswagen, not Ferrari… this is the same company who makes such things as a “rabbit” & “beetle”. “High end” - NO, “Modern” - SOMEWHAT, “Race car” - HARDLY


Simply untrue… comment #6

A lot of your normal off the shelf oils have gone down in quality (lubricant properties, etc) over the past years from what I've read and talked about with some fellow audi mechanic friends.

If this is indeed the case, why keep oil chemists on the payroll? Wouldn’t they just cut into the company profits? The truth is, oils are constantly being improved\reformulated. Yes new oils come along, and outdate the older ones, but when you compare “apples to apples” (older Castrol GTX to newer Castrol GTX) the new one will almost always be better than the old. Oil companies are constantly improving old formulas to be the best they can be at their particular price point. As oil technology progresses, newer types of oil come along and outperform the older outdated types. For instance... Castrol Syntec vs. GTX… GTX does not perform any worse… Syntec just out performs it.
There is only one instance where this might not be true… (I say might not because it is third-party information to me and I don’t know how accurate it is.) The oil in question is Mobil 1 0w-40… from what I understand, it was not reformulated, but declassed from “type IV” to “type III” due to lawsuit issues with Castrol. From what I understand, Mobil was marketing it as something it never really was, and Castrol called them on it... once again I’m not sure of the accuracy on this, and I have never bothered to find out, simply because I would never run it in my car either way.


If you have any comments, please feel free to enlighten me, I would like to hear any and all information… this is a quest for knowledge after all.

Thank You.

[audipotential]

Uh oh....theres a brew ha ha Happening here.

[Mike02A4]

Is German Castrol 0W30 a group 3 or 4 synthetic?

[kastro]

i heard castrol german 0w30 is so good, i even sneak in a few pints of it in my coffee,

[EErie B6]

newbie on audi world
what oil do you guys recommend on 1.8t fwd?

Welcome to the forum, here is the approved oil list from VW
http://http://www.vw.ca/SP/ca/pdf/en/oilchart.pdf

from this you can pick your favorite brew & hopefully one that is easy to find in your area.

an important note:
Most here will agree to change oil at 5k mile intervals, and not the VW Recommended 10k to reduce sludge build up. Also to use the larger revised filter. you can pick them up from ECS Tuning made by "Mayle" and simply called the "large" filter.
The WIX part number is '51191'... and is likely avalable at your local auto parts.
Mann makes the correct filter as well, but im not sure of the correct part number... some one will likely chime in and give the correct part number. (or maybe not)

it is hot where you live (SOCAL) i recommend a 40wt. over a 30wt. personally i wouldnt use a 0w oil because i feel it is too thin. but ultimately that decision is up to you. Refer to your owners manual to help choose what weight oil you feel best meets your needs.

FYI: our B5's manual (virtually same engine) that we also have states: "when using SAE 5-w30 engine oil, avoid high-speed long-distance driving of outside temperature rises above the indicated limits." the limit they have shown is 90deg. F ...seeing this disclaimer tells me that even 5-w is on the thin side. 90deg. isnt exactly that hot out.

Personally i run 10-w30 mobil 1 (some think its crazy), with a WIX filter, i know its not specifically on the list, but neither is AMSOIL, and many people run AMSOIL religiously, with out problems.

as far as Audi's position on additives...
"Audi does not recommend the use of oil additives. This may adversely affect your warranty." ...some can do more harm than good, so its probably not good to use them.

[PRY4SNO]

ELF. This stuff is great. It's a good cleaning oil that will help prevent any sludge from forming. It also runs cooler than some other oils. You might not be able to find it under the ELF brand as they just renamed it Total. I just did an oil change and picked up 5L for about $27. I've been using it for 15-20k miles and highly recommend it.

Almost word for word what I was going to say.

If you can only find Total, make sure it's classified Energy9000 because that states it's full-synthetic. From the data sheets, the INEO seems to look better than the Quartz but whatever ought to work fine. Also from the data sheets, the ELF looks to be of higher pedigree but that's all guess work on my part... stats can be misleading. As in, the map is not the territory.

From my experience, the ELF Excellium DiD cranks over very nicely even overnight in below -40C without being plugged-in. I'm currently 500 km over my OCI but am confident that I'll be okay until I can change my oil.

Cheers, and GL!

[drmarcj]

Not to pour gas on the fire, but here's what VW/Audi says about Audis made pre 2005: the oil should have a little stamp on it that says "VW 502 00" if it's approved for your car. Period. Here's the VW brochure for regular folks. And the tech bulletin.

Here's another version in case the PDF is busted: linkety-link

[[IX]]

Why the Haters on Mobil 1 its "VW 502 00". I have been running it in my Wifes 01 S4 and my 1.8t for 4 years. and Have had zero issues even when I took the valve cover off when we were doing the timing belt at 68K miles.

[PRY4SNO]

Not to pour gas on the fire, but here's what VW/Audi says about Audis made pre 2005: the oil should have a little stamp on it that says "VW 502 00" if it's approved for your car. Period. Here's the VW brochure for regular folks. And the tech bulletin.

Here's another version in case the PDF is busted: linkety-link

Just wondering, but wouldn't specs that evolve from 502.00 supersede that requirement? Like going from Windows XP to Vista, the new OS being backwards-compatible with say... Word2000?

[PRY4SNO]

Why the Haters on Mobil 1 its "VW 502 00". I have been running it in my Wifes 01 S4 and my 1.8t for 4 years. and Have had zero issues even when I took the valve cover off when we were doing the timing belt at 68K miles.

It's not that it's a garbage product; on the contrary, it's excellent. However, without it being certified as a full-synthetic blend (Group IV as opposed to its classification as a Group III oil), it leads to worry. That's why many of us will never use it.

[drmarcj]

Just wondering, but wouldn't specs that evolve from 502.00 supersede that requirement? Like going from Windows XP to Vista, the new OS being backwards-compatible with say... Word2000?

I was wondering the same thing. I assume it's just a higher standard, not a totally different one, but it'd be nice to know for real. As it stands all I can find that's readily available in Podunksville Ontario is 502.00 so it doesn't really matter much.

[PRY4SNO]

I was wondering the same thing. I assume it's just a higher standard, not a totally different one, but it'd be nice to know for real. As it stands all I can find that's readily available in Podunksville Ontario is 502.00 so it doesn't really matter much.

The closest I can come to giving an answer is to send you here, to evaluate the differences in specs between Excellium DiD and when it's in drag, as Total's Quartz Energy9000.

[LLOYDskeez]

got it

[Mike02A4]

Is German Castrol 0W30 a group 3 or 4 synthetic?

hi!

[a2gtinut]

i might get more Motul 0w-30 or try Total Quartz Energy9000 0w-30.
My Dad has Passat 1.8t with oil emp gauge and he never saw oil temp go over 110 C.
People always claim that 0W or 5W is too "thin" for Summer time. I think it is BS.
0W has lower viscosity at low temperatures and anything else.
You read specs of Valvoline Platinumun 5w30 (VAG approved oil) you will find that it has lower viscosity across the board than Motul X-Lite 0W30. Motul lists this oil as 502/505/503.1
BTW. 503.1 is longlife oil spec for Audi TT. There are many people in Europe who use this oil without any problems.

[EErie B6]

There are many people in Europe who use this oil without any problems.

Europe is considerably cooler in most places than it is in the southern USA.

from the cities in Europe i just looked up, most see temps. in the 70s as a typical summer high, the warmest average i found was around 86F... thats considerably cooler than the 100-105+deg. many places in the Southern US sometimes see.

[a2gtinut]

my Dad drives his car in NYC area. On hot days oil temperature is maybe 5-10 C higher than normally. This is nothing.

[EErie B6]

i was talking more so about Southern USA... Southern CA, AZ, NM, TX, LA, AL, MS, GA, FL.... and any where else its Hot, Humid, or an uncomfortable combination of both.

You might be refering to my location though... no, its not as hot here, yes it is cold in the winter, but i still feel more comfortable running a slightly thicker oil. there is no warning\disclaimer in the Audi manual for telling me to beware of 10-30... and in our B5 manual it lists oils as high as 20-w50 for anything above 5deg. F... i cringe at that thought... i think thats way to thick... lol at 5deg im sure it looks like Motor Honey, and there is no way i would allow it to see duty in my car. ... and after taking in this info 10-30 does not seem crazy at all (to me), but a nice spot somewhere in the middle. <-- only my opinion of course, and yours is welcome to differ... but hopefully that explains my side.

[CO AVANT]

EErie B6, with the asshat response you gave me you are not worth my time talking into detail about oil. I didn't feel like going into detail at the time of my original post since there is a lot of explaining so I just posted my personal thoughts on the matter. Wasn't "attacking you" one bit, but obviously you thought so. Welcome to audizine.

[Nammo]

it is hot where you live (SOCAL) i recommend a 40wt. over a 30wt. personally i wouldnt use a 0w oil because i feel it is too thin.

By saying what you just said, you are spreading disinformation. Please read up what the viscosity numbers mean.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm

A 0W30 at operating temperatures flows the same as 10W30....no if, buts, etc. The rating is what the oil flowed at when tested. If a supposed "10W30" flowed thicker then a 0W30, then that "10W30" is not a 30 weight rated oil. Get it? Both operate as 30 weight oils when hot. The difference is when cold, the first oil will flow better. BTW, ask yourself, when do you think most engine wear occurs, when cold or hot?

The choice to go 0W, 5W, 10W will depend on the seasonal temps your car will see, and how much money you are willing to pay for a quality oil that has a good polymer mixture. Generally, a 10W30 will be cheaper to buy then a 0W30.

If you spend the time to read over all the oil tests people post in the forums, you will find that generally Group IVs can be ran longer then Group IIIs. If you are changing very often, then I wouldn't worry about it. If you run the change interval as stated by Audi, I would definately want a Group IV.

[3ohAvant]

I don't even know CO Avant, but I agree with him. I don't see how the replies were obnoxious or anything. I think you're reading a bit into things.

What to use?
5-40 Elf NF AKA Total Quartz 9000 5-40. Its the "same" stuff.

I am using that in my Boxster, and my brother in his 1.8t. In his car, which had M1 in it before, the loud ticking went away. And its smoother, pulls harder, and got slightly better mileage.

In my 3.0, Total INEO MC3 5-30. Getting great mileage : )

As for payroll, and how oils are getting worse. OK, Worse or better in what sense? M1 is better now, in the sense that its cleaner, and more enviro friendly. Without getting into details, the emissions are better than with the old formula.

Does that mean its better? Well, maybe. For older Porsches, and other cars, its not. For those that are still running the M1 0-40 in an old air cooled Porsche, (because the M1 sticker is on the oil cap, and owners are sticklers), then GOOD independents are also using an oil additive to make the current M1 more like the M1 of yester-year.

So yes, oils get better, but better how? The same can be said of other oils, not just M1.

[EErie B6]

By saying what you just said, you are spreading disinformation. Please read up what the viscosity numbers mean.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm

i fiigured there would be a time when this was addressed. and that is a very good article btw. let me explain my side. i am aware that the first number is the cold weight. heres where im at fault... less than a week prior to this post there was a very similar one on the same subject where i was hit with much criticism... and from that, i had a few hold over established thoughts, points, and assumptions, that i had spoken of at that time. one of the topics was film strength and shear.

this is taken from the above url you posted:
"Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best."

now... they do exclude synthetics, and im not certain why, maybe someone can shed some light on this.

heres a link for you to read too:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm

yes multi weights are great, and yes they pass all the tests when new, but when pumped, squeezed, sliced, and burnt for 5k+ miles, their properties change.

oils with a large cold to hot weight spread need more VI improver, and through use and the effects of shear, this oil thins out, and those with the larger viscosity spread thin the most. furthermore, if you read my url about shear, you will see that when the VI improver breaks down, it becomes sludge, something the 1.8t already has issues with...

now when oil is fresh, i think either would be fine, but when the oil has some time on it, from what i have read\learned, i believe there is a higher potential for sludge formations and dangerously thin oil conditions.

whats your take on this?

[EErie B6]

*thread jack*

a note to "CO Avant" & "3ohAvant"...

i did not find his comment obnoxious, i found it belittling. i simply wanted to know why, and how he came to the conclusion that he did... i never called it wrong or right, i wanted to know, and still would like to know... for the purpose of making an informed decision myself... as of right now, i have no bias toward PAO or Ester base stocks.

i do feel it was belittling simply by his choice of words. ex:
"It's a better oil plain and simple, no need to get into details at this point" ... give me the facts, and let me make up my own mind. at least share what makes it "better plain and simple".
"...no need getting into details?" i disagree...why not? are we in some sort of hurry?
the link to the forum was nice, but with out re-asking the question there, i still wouldnt know. plus, it would only start another debate.

"If you read the website I posted above in extent you would know this".
this is a loaded statement, it implys that i did not bother to read and\or i was too stupid to comprehend it.
truth is, i did read it... and i read from several other sources as well... I found no answer... learned alot, but not the answer to my question... asking was my last option.

...most of this post is simply restating stuff i mentioned before (in my first response to CO Avant), i separated it line by line so he(and everyone else) understood precisely my question, and also to separate facts from opinions.

i was looking for facts to back up those opinions...and his first reply was of little knowledge value. if you notice, he still has not posted any relivant facts... if you have a legitimate claim, a fact would not be hard to find.

when trying to bestow your opinion upon someone, "becase i said so" is not a very strong arguement.

i did learn a new word though... "asshat" lmao

im not mad, i just dont care for people talking down to me.
i believe you both need to read my post again to understand, without getting mad because i questioned your opinion.

*thread returned*

[CO AVANT]

EErie B6, with the asshat response you gave me you are not worth my time talking into detail about oil. I didn't feel like going into detail at the time of my original post since there is a lot of explaining so I just posted my personal thoughts on the matter. Wasn't "attacking you" one bit, but obviously you thought so.

I didn't have the time to go into the detail the topic deserves at that time and I still don't. You still are not worth my time talking to since you really think my post was just an "opinion". If you knew anything about me you would know I post little about opinion and mostly FACT. I understand though since you have been on this forum a whole 3 weeks. I am not posting 3 pages worth of info on oil that I do not have the time to post and that only a few people would actually read. Posted extensive topics on certain things engine related before with very limited responses, so I don't feel the need to do it on this topic at this time.

[EErie B6]

lol, you dont have an answer.

I will never use it again after reading all the threads in that oil site I posted above.

I will only use oils now that are 100% ester based.

this, by using the word "now" indicates recently acquired knowledge. please do share it.

You still are not worth my time talking to since you really think my post was just an "opinion".

you need to look up the definition of "fact" and "opinion" ...then see how it pertains to the original post in question, i just did it myself.

I understand though since you have been on this forum a whole 3 weeks.

3 weeks... this is true... but nowhere does that mean that i fell off the turnip truck 3 weeks and 1 day ago. this is a null point. im surprised you ...being as great as you are, would stoop to such levels.

what i gather is basically every one should just listen to what you say, agree, and not question it, simply because you have been here a while & have a high post count? ...didnt the Holocaust happen by people just "going with the flow?"

my my, aren't we on quite the pedestal?

[CO AVANT]

Did I ever say everyone should always listen to me ever? NO. Where did I state this? Nowhere. I just posted MY opinions, which are facts since I did the research on it. Just didn't go into detail about it, that's all.

I do have answers but I thought I was clear enough to you that I don't care to explain them to you since you just keep tearing apart every little sentence of mine and rip on it. You know nothing about me or what I know and YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME. Go bitch on another forum since you feel the need to bitch it seems...

To go into the full detail oils deserve I would need to ramble on for 3+ pages to get all the required information to everyone. I do not have the time right now, and only a select few would care to read all of it anyway. Can you not read and comprehend what I said there or do I need to keep reposting my own quotes?

[EErie B6]

you have said enough, thank you for your time and input. i care to "bitch" no more.