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Thread: 6-speed B5 A4

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    6-speed B5 A4

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    Next car will be a 1.8t, like the motor too much, but I don't like the drive train, so 6speed is a must, and back in S4 brakes go off my car.

    That or ill find an S4 with a bad motor and swap in the 1.8t.

    Who here has done the swap.

    I know what it takes to do, I am just wondering if there is anyone at all with a 6 speed 1.8t B5.

    My main concern is the 1.8t motor sitting on the 2.8 / S4 k-frame, is the engine mount spacing the same, since the 6 speed tranny sits on two low mounted mounts I need to have the motor on the other frame, that or rig up a mount to make it work, just trying to get ideas.

    Looking to build a full 2.0 block with the AEB head out of my car and a 35r or 3076.


    Note: I am not even remotely considering a 2.8 5 speed, 6 speed or bust.
    Last edited by Militant-Grunt; 06-09-2008 at 10:30 PM.
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  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings gotaudi's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Get a B6 i think some came with 6 speeds.
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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings HighDesertAudi's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Go VR6T, 034 has everything you need.
    Previous Audi's
    1999 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5spd Laser Red
    2000 Audi S4 6spd Nogaro
    1990 Coupe Quattro 5spd Lago Blue
    2000 Audi S4 6spd Laser Red
    2004 Audi S4 6spd Dolphin Gray
    2004 Audi A4 6spd Brilliant Black

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    2004+ B6 came with 6 speed right? or was it just ultrasports that did?
    That car only looks good in ultrasport imho
    2001.5 1.8T Manual Quattro Celebration | Startup Racing Vogtland Coilovers | Giac X Chip | SPP A pillar with VDO Gauge | Boxster/A8 Front brakes S4 rears | Neuspeed Catback VMR Testpipe |

    NOW DEAD :(

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings Overboostin's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    ^^correct. 2004 and up. not just ultrasports.
    the homebrew'd s4

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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    i cant believe you want to go thru all that trouble and remove the 2.7T and put a 1.8t In the body. If i was you i would rather put a VR6 engine if i was going thru all that trouble.

  7. #7
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    here is a lil video of a nice VR6 vs ME :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye-XExTfOcI

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings Sleeeper X's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by 2001S4NY View Post
    here is a lil video of a nice VR6 vs ME :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye-XExTfOcI
    who the hell was taping!?
    l gotta-- l gotta get
    a form from a scientist.

  9. #9
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
    who the hell was taping!?
    my friend with the mustang, frank

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings dougyfresh's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    The B6 1.8T came with a 6spd from around 2003 on. Doesn't matter if it was a Ultrasport package or not.
    -Doug
    '02 A4 Avant 2.7T 6spd

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    I just saw a B6 6MT trans sell on ebay for 300 and 100 shipping. The B6 has a different final drive and/or rear end ratio, I can't remember which. I looked it all up in AW's reference library when researching the swap.
    Jim

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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nor_Cal_Driver's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyGunn View Post
    who the hell was taping!?
    Smoked him like a cigarette!
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiA4_20T's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    hey man, the B6 trans is the same... If you find a 3.0 6 speed or 1.8T 6 speed (only from 04+) you just have to swap the axle hubs and rear diff case
    - Clint

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  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Except a B6 weighs over 3400 lbs. I want to stay with a B5. No one has done this before?
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  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by 2001S4NY View Post
    i cant believe you want to go thru all that trouble and remove the 2.7T and put a 1.8t In the body. If i was you i would rather put a VR6 engine if i was going thru all that trouble.
    I don't even remotely have enough money to put a VR6 in a B5 chassis, the amount of work thats required is fucking crazy. The custom brackets for just about anything everything are expensive enough. Seeing I'd need to make them or source them from 034.






    Lack of firewall for instance?
    Thats double the work and double the money, not to mention a 1.8t can be just as fast.

    Believe me I'd love to have a VR6-t, just not financially feasible for me.
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  16. #16
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Except a B6 weighs over 3400 lbs. I want to stay with a B5. No one has done this before?
    I was thinking about doing the same thing with my A4.

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings turbo kraut's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    my buddy with an 01 s4, who had a b5 a4 said he thinks the 6mt out of the s4 is sloppy compared to the a4 5 speed....... i on the other hand think that the 5 speed runs out of life too quick compared to the s4...... his solution could just be a short shifter and different linkage, but i could be wrong


    maybe find a 04 1.8 that has been smashed and swap that in


    also wouldn't you have issues bolting up a s4 6 speed to a 1.8? there would be fabbing involved there.... just throwing that out
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings gotaudi's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Except a B6 weighs over 3400 lbs. I want to stay with a B5. No one has done this before?
    I am sure people have done it, but B6's are cheap... The S4 tranny isnt the best ratios either (first and second are just as short as the 1.8). Idk about the B6 ratios. I understand about the weight issue, but with the hassle of swapping a 6 speed in a B5, I dont think it is going to be worth it.
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  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo kraut View Post
    my buddy with an 01 s4, who had a b5 a4 said he thinks the 6mt out of the s4 is sloppy compared to the a4 5 speed....... i on the other hand think that the 5 speed runs out of life too quick compared to the s4...... his solution could just be a short shifter and different linkage, but i could be wrong


    maybe find a 04 1.8 that has been smashed and swap that in


    also wouldn't you have issues bolting up a s4 6 speed to a 1.8? there would be fabbing involved there.... just throwing that out

    Bell housings are identical.

    What is needed to swap in a 6spd S4 tranny:

    S4 drive shaft, rear differential and axles, not to mention a 2.8 / S4 sub-frame or get a custom bracket made for the A4 sub-frame.

    My only concern right now is a 1.8t motor sitting on a S4 subframe, the rest is a cake walk. Its not necessary but buying a 2.8 subframe would be a lot easier than fabbing up a bracket, though I think 034 may have some? Not 100%.

    This has been done before but with front track, which makes it quite a bit less complicated.
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  20. #20
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    ill trade you my 1.8t for an s4 :)
    Schmutzig V.A.G.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiA4_20T's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Bell housings are identical.

    What is needed to swap in a 6spd S4 tranny:

    S4 drive shaft, rear differential and axles, not to mention a 2.8 / S4 sub-frame or get a custom bracket made for the A4 sub-frame.

    My only concern right now is a 1.8t motor sitting on a S4 subframe, the rest is a cake walk. Its not necessary but buying a 2.8 subframe would be a lot easier than fabbing up a bracket, though I think 034 may have some? Not 100%.

    This has been done before but with front track, which makes it quite a bit less complicated.
    You know whats needed to put in a B6 6speed? Nothing, just the trans... Seriously dont waste your money with an S4 trans
    - Clint

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  22. #22
    Veteran Member Four Rings dougyfresh's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Except a B6 weighs over 3400 lbs. I want to stay with a B5. No one has done this before?
    Am I missing the point of this comment?

    We're talking about transmissions that use the same housing. The 'heavier' B6 is heavy elsewhere. Not in the trans.

    The transmissions are the exact same between the B5 and B6 A4s. The only thing different is the front driveshaft flanges, tailhousing and gear ratios within the trans.
    -Doug
    '02 A4 Avant 2.7T 6spd

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    My B5 Avant weighs 3400 pounds so weight isn't that big of a deal. The B6 also has a larger and nicer interior and can fit 255 width tires easily.

    The B6 trans sounds like your best bet. If it is indeed just the transmission and rear end then it sound pretty easy. I don't know about the shifter linkage though.

    Here is a link to the auction that just ended. There are a few on there from time to time. I almost bought this last one but wasn't sure how much extra work I was getting into.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA:IT&ih=010
    Jim

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  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by dougyfresh View Post
    Am I missing the point of this comment?

    We're talking about transmissions that use the same housing. The 'heavier' B6 is heavy elsewhere. Not in the trans.

    The transmissions are the exact same between the B5 and B6 A4s. The only thing different is the front driveshaft flanges, tailhousing and gear ratios within the trans.
    Someone suggested I get a B6 period because it had a 6speed, hence why I mentioned that I wouldn't want a B6 chassis.

    I dunno if the b6 is straight bolt it, doesn't seem like that to me, I wouldn't want to buy a tranny only to find our that it doesn't bolt up.
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    Veteran Member Four Rings dougyfresh's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Someone suggested I get a B6 period because it had a 6speed, hence why I mentioned that I wouldn't want a B6 chassis.
    I missed that. I'm thinking along the lines of you using a B5 S4 shell and putting a 1.8T in it and want a 6spd transmission. Hence why I was confused.


    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    I dunno if the b6 is straight bolt it, doesn't seem like that to me, I wouldn't want to buy a tranny only to find our that it doesn't bolt up.
    If you have a B5 A4 with a 5spd. I am confident the B6 6spd will bolt right in. You'll have to use your B5 tailhousing and front driveshaft flanges. That is all Clint and I have done to put a 2.8L 5spd in our B6 1.8Ts. We re-used our B6 tailhousing (its got the crossmember hook-up) and front driveshaft flanges. The shifter linkages are also the same.

    If you have a B5 S4 chassis with a 1.8T in it: I'm not sure if the S4 driveshaft is the same length as the B6 A4 driveshaft (or B5 A4 for that matter). So, I'm not sure if you'll have to monkey around with the driveshaft when trying to install a B6 A4 6spd into a B5 S4 chassis. The rear differential ratios are also different so that will throw off your gearing (depending on what your final gearing is looking to be). Might want to talk to Jay@JHM about the B6 6spd and B5 S4 6spd differences. My gut feel is he'll say they are the same transmissions, just slightly different gear ratios (if that). You also want to get the entire shifter linkage with the 6spd. They are completely different between the 6spds and 5spds.
    -Doug
    '02 A4 Avant 2.7T 6spd

  26. #26
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    All 5 speed trannys, 01A, 01E and 01X have multi-bolt pattern, and will fit 4, 5, V6, V8 and V10 motors.

    All 6 speed trannys from the same family as listed above will also fit all the above engine configurations.

    The 01A 5 speed was fitted to all B3 and B4.
    The 01E 6 speed was fitted to S2, RS2, C4 Ur S4 / S6, C5 A6, B5 S4 / RS4, D11 V8, S8.
    The 01X 5 & 6 speed were fitted to B6 / B7 A4, C7 A6.

    The 01X tranny is lighter than the 01E, the cast iron central casing the 01E came with is light alloy on the 01X.

    The 01X also has a different front / rear bias on quattro models.

  27. #27
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Driveshaft lengths are the same.

    I fitted RS4 uprights, hubs and brakes to Docurley's widebody 1.8 TQS 3 weeks ago, and I replaced his 5-speed driveshafts with the RS4 items, which have the larger inner flanges.

    The flanges are the same size as FWD V6 models, quattro models, excluding S4 / RS4 have smaller front flanges. The lengths are also the same.

    When my 01E 6 speed goes into my B5, I'll be fitting FWD V6 driveshafts.
    I also don't need to replace my rear differential, as the ratios in my current set-up is the same as the S4 / RS4 @ 4.11:1.

  28. #28
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    I also fitted the 01E 6 speed to my RS2-powered type 85 Coupe quattro (US 4000 quattro) back in 1999.

    Besides running a SM flywheel, making up a couple of custom mounts, and running driveshaft flange spacers, (the OEM 016 5 speed box is wider) it was an easy conversion.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Two Rings safab's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    I believe all you need for a s4 6spd conversion in a b5 is a transmission, driveshaft, and rear differential. Axles should bolt right up.

    As far the motor sitting on the subframe...it doesn't sit on the subframe...only the transmission sits on the subframe. The motor sits on mounting hardware that is bolted directly to the frame of the car...I've personally swapped subframes back and forth on a FWD passat with one from an S4 and it bolts right in.

    Shameless plug:
    And I happen to have all that for sale including a subframe and rear brakes/spindles if needed...
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187258
    Last edited by safab; 06-10-2008 at 12:39 PM.

  30. #30
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    I also failed to mention that I will have S4 uprights on the car. Just like on my previous car, to run those I need S4 axles or like on my car, 2.8 axles which bolted up to the 1.8t tranny. This is primarily why I am leaning towards the S4 tranny,

    Thank you for the Info Siena and Dougyfresh, very useful.

    The insurance company is trying to crazy low ball me, offered me 6,100 for my car, so it'll be a matter of weeks before I get any money out of them if I'm going to have to file a lawsuit.

    Really can't believe no one has put a 6speed quattro tranny in a B5 before. I need to look in at the cost of the rear differential out of an S4.
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  31. #31
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    To reduce cost, I'd be looking at V6 quattro rear differentials.

    Once you mention S4, the seller's pupils turn to $-$ signs.

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    The v6q and s4 have different rear end ratios.
    Jim

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  33. #33
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoremile View Post
    The v6q and s4 have different rear end ratios.
    That's what I've been thinking as well, V6 still uses a 5speed.
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  34. #34
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Like I said earlier, all the final drive and rear end ratios are in audiworld's reference model library.
    Jim

    We cannot achieve the future by being timid. It requires aggressive imagination.

    I Do Werk.

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Four Rings Militant-Grunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 30 2006
    AZ Member #
    12999
    My Garage
    05 Mini Cooper S
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    NYC

    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Got a link? Can't seem to find it
    -MilitantGrunt- Certified Audi Dealership Technician
    -05 R53 Mini Cooper S
    -F30 Estroil Blau 335 Xdrive M Sport 6spd. -Sold
    -Brilliant Red B6 A4 Ultrasport 1.8t Avant 621whp - RIP
    https://www.facebook.com/auditech/

  36. #36
    Account Terminated Four Rings
    Join Date
    Jan 09 2008
    AZ Member #
    23986
    My Garage
    B5 A4 Quattro 4,2L V8 6 Speed
    Location
    United Kingdom

    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoremile View Post
    The v6q and s4 have different rear end ratios.
    Mine is 4.11:1, same as an S4 / RS4.

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings Mawhitey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 20 2005
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    4931
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    99 AJL TQS
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    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Are we talking quatty or front trash? I did a 6 speed conversion on my fwd. Is that what you are lookking for??

    http://audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?t=53158
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wcKEy2w9pU8

    Sorry i re read the post, quatty. Anyway my post stands on the subframe mount modification to suit the 6 speed
    Last edited by Mawhitey; 06-11-2008 at 06:16 AM.
    -Mark -

    .2008cc Stroker, K04064, ME7.5, Miltek, and other goodies
    My k04064 , ME3 DBC to ME7.5 DBW build thread

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings onemoremile's Avatar
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    Mar 09 2004
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    1174
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    99.5 A4 Avant, 01 allroad
    Location
    nw michigan.

    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by Militant-Grunt View Post
    Got a link? Can't seem to find it
    main page --> resources --> model guide.
    2000 A4
    2004 A4
    2001 S4
    2004 S4


    Looks like I was wrong. The only odd one is the B5 S4. The 2004 A4 didn't have gear ratios shown so I had to use the 2006 A4 3.2 FSI.
    Last edited by onemoremile; 06-11-2008 at 05:55 AM.
    Jim

    We cannot achieve the future by being timid. It requires aggressive imagination.

    I Do Werk.

  39. #39
    Registered Member Three Rings panix73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 17 2006
    AZ Member #
    10878
    My Garage
    Battleship Kruzer
    Location
    Long Island, NY

    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by AudiA4_20T View Post
    hey man, the B6 trans is the same...
    same as what? certainly isn't the same as an s4 tranny, b6 a4 3.0 tranny that is.
    Innovate.

  40. #40
    Registered Member Three Rings panix73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 17 2006
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    10878
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    Battleship Kruzer
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    Long Island, NY

    Re: 6-speed B5 A4

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoremile View Post
    Looks like I was wrong. The only odd one is the B5 S4. The 2004 A4 didn't have gear ratios shown so I had to use the 2006 A4 3.2 FSI.
    Good info. Here is another little chart I put together a little while ago, while on the search for better gearing. My conclusion, after speaking to SEVERAL people who've run different transmissions with the 2.7T and kept breaking them because the gearshafts simply couldn't take stage 3 power, was too just keep the stock S4 transmission and go with a JHM rebuild (mine had failed synchos).



    I heard great things about the allroad tranmission, as the housing featured fittings for an external oil cooler, audi used it from the factory with their 4.2 and 2.7t motor, it seemed like a great option. Although upon looking at the gearing ratios and tremendous price (~3g's!!!), I quickly strayed away as it would not only yield lower speeds at the top of each gear but I would still be buying a used tranny not really knowing the condition of the synchos.

    Next I thought about using a B6 A4 3.0 transmission, as I noticed it had the same ratios as the RS4 tranny and could be had at a fraction of the cost. At the time I found one for about $1,000 in good working condition. This seemed like a great route as well, especially after finding out that 1-4 gear ratios were the same as RS4 and would give me just enough to shift and get going into 4th before going through the trap. But then I contacted Stasis, where I was informed that although the ratios may be the same the gears themselves were weaker than the B5 S4 gears and I would more likely than not, break them with enough abuse and power that a stage 3 car could put. This really explained to me why one particular friend who has tried numerous transmissions in his car kept breaking them time after time. Its was not the driving, but the transmissions themselves. It was also noted that most of the A4 transmissions had the same shafts and gears, which all would eventually fail stage 3 power, the only exception was the B5 A4 2.8 transmission, which would be the strongest of all the A4 transmissions and give the best ratios, although it would be a 5 speed, a bitch to drive on the highway yielding terrible fuel economy, but still not stronger than a B5 S4 transmission.

    At about that time, I saw Jay was in the process of having gears made, although again the price they were being offered IMO would not justify the gains, considering I would still have to rebuild my tranny as the synchros had failed. For me, in the end I did my homework and decided the cost-benefit of any other options would not justify the gains and possibility of having another broken tranny so I just went with a standard JHM rebuild kit and kept the ratios I had.

    Maciek, for you, if you plan on sticking with the 1.8t and depending upon how much power you are planning to make, if you are seeking a 6 speed it may be worth just snagging a B6 A4 3.0L 6speed tranny and using that, although based upon the discussions I've had with others and the outcomes we've seen with the experimentation of different transmissions other than the B5 S4 6speed with the 2.7t platform, I'd say the B5 S4 transmission is the most bullet proof option out there. As far as the B5 S4 trannies are concerned, it should definitely be noted that the 01.5-02 synchos were updated and will be less prone to failure over the 00-01 revisions. Otherwise, make sure to do your homework.

    p.s. - Coming from a B5 S4 standpoint with a 4.111:1 final drive and matching rear diff to any of the transmissions mentioned, the only one that is completely plug and play would be the B6 A4 3.0L 6speed and ofcourse a true B5 RS4 tranny, which we will almost never see here in the states. The Allroad transmission will require an allroad rear differential and the B5 A4 2.8L 5speed transmission will also require a matching a rear diff, axles, and spindle.

    *** If anyone has any other findings, experiences running any other transmission on their car other than the one intended for use, please do share your findings.



    Innovate.

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