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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings ExCarpi's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Corner Balance=WOW!

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    About 4 weeks ago I ordered wheels and suspension. I installed my 19" OZ Ultraleggera's about one week later. That made a little improvement with handling, though I think it magically lifted the car 3 inches

    A week after that I had the Bilstein PSS9's installed, this dramatically changed the handling. The car cornered like it was on rails, or so I thought.

    I had my car corner balanced and aligned yesterday. All I can say is WOW! It is a totally different car. Able to take corners much faster without the wheels feeling like they are a little bouncy. It completely changed the feel of the car and I can't wait to Auto-x it.

    Now I only need to get exhaust, FMIC, clutch, and big turbo with flash. Where is all my money going?
    APR TIP, APR 1+, TT injectors, RaceTec FMIC, JHM Extra short throw shifter (45% reduction), ER Test Pipe, 19" OZ Ultraleggeras, B5S4 Front Calipers, Adam's Rotors with black hubs, Hawk HPS, PSS9 coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, clear corners, tint, Magnaflow Exhaust, Podi pod with SW boost gauge.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings diztek's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    nice. how much did it cost to corner balance?
    2016 AUDI S3 Prem+ Monsoon Grey

    RETIRED:Audi A4 1.8t UltraSport - USP CLUB MEMBER #90
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    02 A4 3.0QM, 84 Rabbit GTI
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    The alignment probably made more of a difference than the corner-balancing did. Regardless, it's awesome when your car handles they way it should after you spend all that money!

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings yoogene83's Avatar
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    2017 Pacifica Limited / 2014 BMW M5
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    auto-x on 19's? you sir, got big cajones!

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings ExCarpi's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Well I figured that for the amount I want to autocross that 19's would suit me much better. You just can't beat the look of 19's.

    They charged me $300 which is pretty steep for aligment and corner balance, I thought. It did take them 3.5 hours of work (and my waiting). So far that was the best money spent on the car!
    APR TIP, APR 1+, TT injectors, RaceTec FMIC, JHM Extra short throw shifter (45% reduction), ER Test Pipe, 19" OZ Ultraleggeras, B5S4 Front Calipers, Adam's Rotors with black hubs, Hawk HPS, PSS9 coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, clear corners, tint, Magnaflow Exhaust, Podi pod with SW boost gauge.

  6. #6
    Registered User Four Rings winston@podi.ca's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    How did they corner balance your car without you having adjustable swaybar links?

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings nizmosx's Avatar
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    2007 b7 a4 6MT Ti avant / 1990 300zx TT / 2014 Honda Grom / 2012 Tiguan SE
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    my car is corner balanced as well and yes it is a nice difference. thats what is stoping me from lowering my car a little more. dont want to throw it out of balance

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings jrau13's Avatar
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    02 Mercedes ML, 04 Avant 1.8t
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    I am looking into getting the corner balancing and alignment done very soon. Good to hear.
    I'll keep my money,
    My Guns, My Freedom,
    & you can keep the CHANGE

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings absolutegtr's Avatar
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    2001 BMW 540i M-sport
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    What is corner balancing...in full?

    Is it just a full alignment (camber, caster, toe) on all four tires?
    -Sami-

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiA4Turbo22's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    ^^perfect explanation thanx!
    -Kirk
    AZ's First 2.0 Stroker 3076R Powered Tiptronic B6 Built by RavenMS. Powered by PSI Concepts & GIAC

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  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings rxrep's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    How did they corner balance your car without you having adjustable swaybar links?
    What he said. Ask how they did it. You bought snake oil if you'd ask me.
    It's not really able to be done if there isn't a way to adjust the sway bar linkage.
    My 2004.5 APR Stage 3+ is SOLD

  13. #13
    Established Member Two Rings ExCarpi's Avatar
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    2005 A4 1.8T 6sp
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    Minneapolis, MN

    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    I was under the impression you could change the ride height independently with each coilover to achieve a balance with weight transfer.

    I will find out a little more info for you guys.
    APR TIP, APR 1+, TT injectors, RaceTec FMIC, JHM Extra short throw shifter (45% reduction), ER Test Pipe, 19" OZ Ultraleggeras, B5S4 Front Calipers, Adam's Rotors with black hubs, Hawk HPS, PSS9 coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, clear corners, tint, Magnaflow Exhaust, Podi pod with SW boost gauge.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    '13 A5, '24 Tiguan SEL R-Line
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Winston is correct. To properly corner balance your car the sway bars need to be completely neutral (as in unhooked). Once the car is balanced the sway bars can then be set. Hard to do without adjustable links. Also, to truly corner balance you need to have the car loaded as driven (driver in the drivers seat). for street use I don't think corner balancing helps anyway near as much as a proper alignment.
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings rxrep's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExCarpi View Post
    I was under the impression you could change the ride height independently with each coilover to achieve a balance with weight transfer.

    I will find out a little more info for you guys.
    This is true if you had no sway bars. Which I see the man with the plan (OldGuy) has just mentioned, too.
    Also make sure you have the amount of gas in the tank that you'd track with, in addition to driver weight in front seat.
    I think Jet Jockey had some adjustable links on his car. But they probably weighed too much so he might have them to sell now (/sarcasm).
    My 2004.5 APR Stage 3+ is SOLD

  16. #16
    Veteran Member Four Rings EBG 18T's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    How did they corner balance your car without you having adjustable swaybar links?

    2nd this. i have no idea how anyone can corner balance this car without adjustable sway links. The links/sways are preloaded which will throw off any corner balance. You can try and cross weight the car via ride height. But that is about as close as you can get without adjustable sway links.

    If indeed the original did corner balance this car with adjustable sway links, where did you get them?
    2001 A4 1.8TQM (in pieces..)
    2020 Chevy AEV ZR2

  17. #17
    Established Member Two Rings ExCarpi's Avatar
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    2005 A4 1.8T 6sp
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    I found a few articles on corner balancing that somewhat address the questions posted.

    Clicky

    Clicky

    Clicky

    I understand that you want the car weighted with the driver, and for fuel as the Old Guy said.

    Can someone post why you do need to have adjustable links in order to achieve a corner balance?
    APR TIP, APR 1+, TT injectors, RaceTec FMIC, JHM Extra short throw shifter (45% reduction), ER Test Pipe, 19" OZ Ultraleggeras, B5S4 Front Calipers, Adam's Rotors with black hubs, Hawk HPS, PSS9 coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, clear corners, tint, Magnaflow Exhaust, Podi pod with SW boost gauge.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    2002 A4 1.8TQM
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    Columbus OH

    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    I had my car corner balanced without adjustable sway bars. I brought it in with the amount of gas I wanted (1/2 tank) and they weighed down the drivers seat, and adjusted the coilovers independently.

    It may not be a full corner balance with the sway bars and whatnot... but it's better than nothing.

    But I only paid $125 for the alignment and corner balance. No way I could afford $300 for it. OUCH!
    Upgraded the motor a little, brakes a little more, and suspension a lot.

  19. #19
    Established Member Two Rings ExCarpi's Avatar
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    2005 A4 1.8T 6sp
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Yeah I hear you $300 is a lot. It was recommended by my performance shop, which sold me the coilovers for the same price as I could find online and charged me about 350 for the install. So I trust what he said (can screw ya though)

    Although, if I was worried about money I wouln't have bought the coilovers.
    APR TIP, APR 1+, TT injectors, RaceTec FMIC, JHM Extra short throw shifter (45% reduction), ER Test Pipe, 19" OZ Ultraleggeras, B5S4 Front Calipers, Adam's Rotors with black hubs, Hawk HPS, PSS9 coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, clear corners, tint, Magnaflow Exhaust, Podi pod with SW boost gauge.

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings rxrep's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExCarpi View Post
    Can someone post why you do need to have adjustable links in order to achieve a corner balance?
    Because when you install sway bars, you usually have to move them or the suspension to get them connected in the correct spot. And then when you let car off jacks, the sway bars will apply pressure to the suspension equal to lifting up or pushing down on it. In other words, when your sway bars are on, they are applying pressure to the suspension one way or the other, thereby defeating the corner balance. It is rare that attached sway bars are NOT applying some upward or downward force when the car is sitting idle at desired ride height. Unscrew just one sway bar link bolt and watch that puppy fly to see what I mean.
    With adjustable sway bar links, you can do the corner balance, then put in sway bars so that the sway bars are not pushing/pulling at all on your suspension when it is idle and set.
    I disagree with the "it is better than nothing" statement. An attached sway bar, without an adjustable link to ensure that the sway bar is not applying any upward/downward pounds of pressure when the suspension sits idle at ride height, can totally negate the so-called "corner balancing" just as much, if not more than a bad height setting from the coilovers.
    It's like buying in to a theory and hype. Might as well buy a tornado intake, also.
    Even proper corner balancing is not going to be noticed on the street on our cars by 99% of the people driving them. Alignment is more key.

    EDIT: And looking at my description above, I can see how it still can be perceived different from my intent. And also that if the sways were hooked up and applying pressure at idle stance, that the added pressure from the sways can be factored in to the corner balance and it all still comes out the same. Which isn't the case.
    It's hard to explain because I'm a visual person and can "see" it , but can't "explain" it. But using the first link above that compared corner balancing to chair legs.... I'll try again. Basically, if you understand the 4 legs on a chair distributing equal weight LINKY above: Imagine yourself sitting in the chair now, and you place your feet on the ground, and you push with your legs (and therefore pushing your back on the back of the chair, lifting the front two chair legs off the ground), even if you compensate so the weight distribution is equal from the back two chair legs to your two feet (with front legs even touching the ground a little but not taking weight), you don't actually have an equal distribution to all four chair legs. Your feet/legs in this comparison are equivalent to having sway bars without adjustable links.
    Now, if you could corner balance to all four chair legs, then set your feet on the ground, pushing your legs so the chair would come of the ground as above, but then cut out part of your legs and fuze the remainder back together until the front chair legs were back on the ground taking equal weight, and your feet where just resting idly on the ground not taking any weight, that would be like having adjustable links. Your legs in this example, acting as sways, are neutral when all four chair legs are on the ground. But if for some reason the chair tilted front/left/right, then your legs would help apply pressure to straighten it all back out again. You can set the corner balance for the actual suspension, and add the sway bars with no pressure to that setting. Does that make sense? I hope someone can explain it better.
    Last edited by rxrep; 06-04-2008 at 01:37 PM.
    My 2004.5 APR Stage 3+ is SOLD

  21. #21
    Registered User Four Rings winston@podi.ca's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Adjustable swaybar links are not available for our cars.

    Jet Jockey got a one off set made by CPP for his ride.

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings ExCarpi's Avatar
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    2005 A4 1.8T 6sp
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Thanks for the reply Rxrep, that definately makes sense. Sounds like I paid for a expensive alignment/ride height adjustment. At least it made a big difference in ride, enough that I don't feel so bad.
    APR TIP, APR 1+, TT injectors, RaceTec FMIC, JHM Extra short throw shifter (45% reduction), ER Test Pipe, 19" OZ Ultraleggeras, B5S4 Front Calipers, Adam's Rotors with black hubs, Hawk HPS, PSS9 coilovers, Hotchkis Sways, clear corners, tint, Magnaflow Exhaust, Podi pod with SW boost gauge.

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings rxrep's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExCarpi View Post
    Thanks for the reply Rxrep, that definately makes sense. Sounds like I paid for a expensive alignment/ride height adjustment. At least it made a big difference in ride, enough that I don't feel so bad.
    LOL, no worries. I've got a Carbonio intake. Others bought an R1 DV. We all get suckered at some point. I'd venture to say you're probably closer to a true corner balance than most will ever see on their B6 anyhow. I guess it is better than nothing, so I retract my statement saying it isn't.
    My 2004.5 APR Stage 3+ is SOLD

  24. #24
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Damn, Lee. That was one hell of an explanation! See if I can simplify it a little. Sway bars apply a torsional connection between the left and right side of the car. As one side of the car lifts that torsional force is applied to the opposite side of the car in direct proportion to the torsional resistance of the sway bar (thicker bar = more force transfer). So as you attempt to balance out the weight distribution from left to right some of that force is distributed through the sway bar. So the logical step is to disconnect the sway bar, left/right balance the car, and attach the sway bars neutrally. You can only do that if the sway bar links are adjustable (or you are lucky enough to have the links line up perfectly after balancing). Hope that helps.

    cheers!
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings rxrep's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by old guy View Post
    Damn, Lee. That was one hell of an explanation! See if I can simplify it a little. Sway bars apply a torsional connection between the left and right side of the car. As one side of the car lifts that torsional force is applied to the opposite side of the car in direct proportion to the torsional resistance of the sway bar (thicker bar = more force transfer). So as you attempt to balance out the weight distribution from left to right some of that force is distributed through the sway bar. So the logical step is to disconnect the sway bar, left/right balance the car, and attach the sway bars neutrally. You can only do that if the sway bar links are adjustable (or you are lucky enough to have the links line up perfectly after balancing). Hope that helps.

    cheers!
    There you go again. Making it all seem so simple and easy to understand. Der... Wish I uzed werds 'dat gooder. So, in a nutshell, you can't corner balance with sways on or with non-adjustable links because every time you adjust height of one side, you're affecting the other through the sway. So, there never really is a "balance". You move to other side to correct what you just did, and it in turn affects the other side again. Like a never-ending cycle.
    My 2004.5 APR Stage 3+ is SOLD

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    '13 A5, '24 Tiguan SEL R-Line
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by rxrep View Post
    There you go again. Making it all seem so simple and easy to understand. Der... Wish I uzed werds 'dat gooder. So, in a nutshell, you can't corner balance with sways on or with non-adjustable links because every time you adjust height of one side, you're affecting the other through the sway. So, there never really is a "balance". You move to other side to correct what you just did, and it in turn affects the other side again. Like a never-ending cycle.
    Hey... Your words are getting gooderer!!
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  27. #27
    Veteran Member Four Rings 3ohAvant's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    I've been reading this over and over again, trying to think about it.

    Here are my thoughts...

    Best case scenario, adj end links? yes. And driver in the seat, with 1/2 tank of fuel. But can you still do a CB w/o adj end links? I think you can. And I think the car will still be better than it was before the CB.

    Did this guy get jacked? I don't think so.

    Without the adj end links, all that means is he is now balanced, and the sway bar(s) is(are) either pre-loaded or un-loaded. So the front or back end of the car has a slightly stiffer or softer spring rate (effectively).

    When turning left or right, the car should handle equally well now, where before the CB, it would have turned much better in one direction, vs the other.

    As for what is better, and what made his handling better, the alignment or the CB, it could be either one. I wouldn't say that one made his car handle much better than the other it could be either one. Just depends on how out of wack either was before the adjustments.

    comments?
    - Benny

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Four Rings old guy's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3ohAvant View Post
    I've been reading this over and over again, trying to think about it.

    Here are my thoughts...

    Best case scenario, adj end links? yes. And driver in the seat, with 1/2 tank of fuel. But can you still do a CB w/o adj end links? I think you can. And I think the car will still be better than it was before the CB.

    Did this guy get jacked? I don't think so.

    Without the adj end links, all that means is he is now balanced, and the sway bar(s) is(are) either pre-loaded or un-loaded. So the front or back end of the car has a slightly stiffer or softer spring rate (effectively).

    When turning left or right, the car should handle equally well now, where before the CB, it would have turned much better in one direction, vs the other.

    As for what is better, and what made his handling better, the alignment or the CB, it could be either one. I wouldn't say that one made his car handle much better than the other it could be either one. Just depends on how out of wack either was before the adjustments.

    comments?
    Certainly you can corner balance with sway bars attached and with a car as heavy as an A4 it probably won't make much of a difference. But the potential is there to really mess things up. In your scenario above, yes you can get side to side balance with the sways attached. However the problem that can occur comes from how the balancing force is applied. Sway bars are torsional and linear. Most spring rates are progressive. So what can happen is that cornering in one direction the car starts with a higher spring rate load than the other direction. The lighter the car and the heavier the sway bar the bigger this problem can become.

    Cheers!
    '03 A4 5-MT Motoza tuned Frankenturbo F21L With full supporting mods. Sold (and missed dearly).
    '13 A5 6-MT Needs more Fun Stuff: Neuspeed PM / 3.0 TDI Intercooler / H&R OE Sport Springs / Bilstein B8 Shocks / TyrolSport Brake Stiffeners / ECS Short Shifter / S5 Side Skirts / RS Grille

  29. #29
    Veteran Member Four Rings jrau13's Avatar
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    Re: Corner Balance=WOW!

    This sounds like a new product for Winston
    I'll keep my money,
    My Guns, My Freedom,
    & you can keep the CHANGE

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