extra power from the s-line

[in2thenightaudi]

Where does the extra 15 horsepower come from on a 2.7t s-line as compared to the normal a6 2.7t? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read that the s-lines came with 265 instead of the normal 250. I tried doing a search for this, but for some reason every time i try to search for anything in the forums, it tells me that i need to search on more than 3 words, even though i am typing for than 3 words.

[xpl0sive]

your right,
2.7L 250 hp VS V6 2.7L 265 hp... i think it might be due to different software, or maybe even different turbo's... like the k03s

[white fish]

I read somewhere the S came with k03sport turbos

[Gigi]

The S badging adds 15 hp :)
J/K... Would like to know too but I doubt it is the turbos..

[Stampy]

It has to do with the turbo's I believe. That whole thing that S-lines can't go stage 3. I never really read much into it cause I don't rock a 2.7t.

[FrankA6]

Well let me just say this, i have a S-Line and a 2001 A6 2.7T , and for being the same car and motor pretty much, the S-Line is 100 times better to drive, the normal 2.7T has soft handling, where the S-Line feels very tight , and with that 15HP, its really wierd , but my S-Line is alot faster and smoother than the normal, A6, stock vs stock, but yeah, why can't a S-Line go stage 3?

[Stampy]

I forgot exactly. I know DAFT was talking about it with some other dudes in a thread some time back. Something with the programming or something? Oh yeah, I think that was it, not the turbo's. I think it was that the ECU programming was completely different.

[Digga]

Well let me just say this, i have a S-Line and a 2001 A6 2.7T , and for being the same car and motor pretty much, the S-Line is 100 times better to drive, the normal 2.7T has soft handling, where the S-Line feels very tight , and with that 15HP, its really wierd , but my S-Line is alot faster and smoother than the normal, A6, stock vs stock, but yeah, why can't a S-Line go stage 3?

They changed the K03 turbo slightly in the last years of the tiptronic, for whatever reason this prohibits owners that have the "T" model of the turbos from being able to upgrade to K04's........if you go to page 3 of this post you can see more http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190676

[Stampy]

Yep, thats the thread I was talking bout!

[FrankA6]

so if my turbos go (which they will soon) i cant get k04's, i gota get k03's again? is that what your telling me?

[Daft]

All 2003-2004 A6 and allroad cars with a tiptronic transmission (S-line was only available in tip) have 703T and 704T part number turbos. For some reason they changed the shape of the turbos at that point and due to this the K04s will not bolt up the same.

The only changes on the S-line cars are:

15HP (via a small software change)
RS6 trunklid spoiler
RS4 style wheels
S-line badges on rear door trim moldings

The S-line will only appear to handle better than another A6 if the other A6 doesn't have the sport package. Otherwise, both the S-line and a sport package equipped A6 have the exact same struts/springs.

[ProValet]

Does that mean that the downpipes from other 2.7s will not fit?

I guess as long as the turbo sits in the same place and the exhaust flange is the same it will work.

[Gigi]

I have driven a 2004 Dolphin Grey Sline A6 2.7T back to back with my 04 2.7T and could NOT tell the difference in power... handling was the same as all 04 had the sport suspension.

yeah NO stage 3 for the 04 2.7T S line or not.

[Digga]

I have driven a 2004 Dolphin Grey Sline A6 2.7T back to back with my 04 2.7T and could NOT tell the difference in power... handling was the same as all 04 had the sport suspension.

yeah NO stage 3 for the 04 2.7T S line or not.

I still feel that the 04' Tip cars whether S-line or not have the same HP, has anyone ever specified that it is software?????
My personal feel is the couple extra HP has to do with the turbo change we have been discussing.

[Switchblind360]

I still feel that the 04' Tip cars whether S-line or not have the same HP, has anyone ever specified that it is software?????
My personal feel is the couple extra HP has to do with the turbo change we have been discussing.

The horsepower is due partly from the turbos. Meaning Audi changed the turbos slightly and felt that they could add 15 horsepower safely and reliably to the car. However the K03's in any 2.7T are capable of that easily. They really didn't consider that there would be aftermarket tuning available to push any 2.7T well over 300hp. In that respect, the S-line is a little bit of a gimmick.

However, you should feel good about that fact that you should get a little extra milage out of your turbos if you chip your car since they were designed to handle more boost to begin with.

I also think that any serious enthusiest wouldn't let the small issue of having a direct bolt-on problem stop them from putting in K04's. Afterall......its not like you can't pick up a set of manifolds and downpipes from a standard 2.7T

[Daft]

The horsepower is due partly from the turbos. Meaning Audi changed the turbos slightly and felt that they could add 15 horsepower safely and reliably to the car. However the K03's in any 2.7T are capable of that easily. They really didn't consider that there would be aftermarket tuning available to push any 2.7T well over 300hp. In that respect, the S-line is a little bit of a gimmick.

However, you should feel good about that fact that you should get a little extra milage out of your turbos if you chip your car since they were designed to handle more boost to begin with.

I also think that any serious enthusiest wouldn't let the small issue of having a direct bolt-on problem stop them from putting in K04's. Afterall......its not like you can't pick up a set of manifolds and downpipes from a standard 2.7T

Are you saying that the turbos are internally different because you've seen the internals or is this an assumption?

I know that they are K03 turbos. ETKA shows them as the same part as all the previous years. They only have changed the bolt pattern and this is why they can only be used on 2003 + tiptronic A6/allroad cars.

The 15HP is done by software. Any 2.7T car make an extra 15HP by simply changing the timing a small amount. This is why some chips make a tad more HP than others. It's not boost in those cases but, just the difference in timing advance as key areas and pushing the injectors a tad more to cover it.

I knew a guy who had some connections at Borg Warner but, I haven't talked to him in a while. I'd like to see the compressor maps for the 703T/704T turbos.

Manifolds for the 2.7T are all flanged the same. You would have to modify them no matter what. Or pay to have custom ones made.

[Switchblind360]

Are you saying that the turbos are internally different because you've seen the internals or is this an assumption?

I know that they are K03 turbos. ETKA shows them as the same part as all the previous years. They only have changed the bolt pattern and this is why they can only be used on 2003 + tiptronic A6/allroad cars.

The 15HP is done by software. Any 2.7T car make an extra 15HP by simply changing the timing a small amount. This is why some chips make a tad more HP than others. It's not boost in those cases but, just the difference in timing advance as key areas and pushing the injectors a tad more to cover it.

I knew a guy who had some connections at Borg Warner but, I haven't talked to him in a while. I'd like to see the compressor maps for the 703T/704T turbos.

Manifolds for the 2.7T are all flanged the same. You would have to modify them no matter what. Or pay to have custom ones made.

TOTAL ASSUMPTION> Was a little drunk last night. I think my point was, that 15hp isn't crap cause anyone can go buy a chip and pull ~310, and that anyone serious about putting in RS4 turbos or other, will find a way to do it. It kills me when people who haven't done something get all worried about it. Just go do it! Then report.

Don't let someone tell you it can't be done.

[Daft]

I did more research today in ETKA on this topic of the K03 and its variation from the older format.

I looked at the following items in comparison between the BEL cars and the older APB cars (S4 version).

Exhaust manifolds are the same part number for every car from 2000-2004.

Oil feed & return lines are the same part number for every car from 2000-2004.
Turbos change several times but, this is due to revisions within Borg Warner.

Inlet pipes are the same part numbers for every car from 2000-2004.

Downpipes & downpipe gaskets changed in 2003 only on the tiptronic cars.

^^ This appears to be the real change that BW is referring to. ^^




Circled in red are the new parts for the 2003 cars. 4B-2-xxxxxx is a C5 chassis made in 2002, VIN xxxxxx. 4B-3-xxxxxx is a C5 chassis made in 2003, VIN xxxxxx.


I have made a call to see if this can be confirmed by Borg Warner so that we can have a real world understanding of what changed.

If the downpipes are the only change that was made, anyone who is wishing to go Stage 3 on a BEL tiptronic car would simply need to modify a set of downpipes from an older 2.7T tip car to fit in the area properly. This doesn't seem like a big deal at all to me.

From BW's perspective, it's easier to say that the K04 just can't be used than ship someone K04s, have them pull the motor and then realize afterwards that the downpipes won't mate up at all.

So hopefully, we'll get the confimation from BW that the only change was the turbine-to-downpipe flange.

[Ben@SpeedBarn]

Assumption below:
Then it would make sense that something on the tip cars changed causing them to need a different downpipe angle or something. Is it the same tip tranny as the older A6/Allroads?