This car's brakes suck!

[RolledMySTi]

So I was driving my favorite mountain road today, and after about 10-15 minutes of spirited driving my brakes are faded to the point of having to slow down and drive like a normal person. I know the S4 is no lightweight, but I can't imagine these brakes lasting more than 3-4 laps at the track.

Is this normal? Or did the guy I bought it off of put on a cheap set of pads? It makes me think track time is not worth it until I have a bbk. Those with track experience please shed some light on this.

Also my oil temps were between 250-275. Seemed fine to me. Just want to make sure that is normal and it seems like a an oil cooler may be necessary for the track as well.

And damn I need a rear anti-roll bar. This thing understeers with a capital U.

[momento1]

yeah the stock pads, calipers are prone to fade.

They are good for the one or two in a row hard brake for emergencys but not continual hard track braking, the car is simply too heavy for the small brakes. Upgrading your pads and your brake fluid will help reduce fade slightly for continual hard braking, but to reduce this even further, largers rotors, calipers and better pads and fluid would be the ideal thing to do.

Hence why i upgraded to the ECS porsche 6 piston brake kit. it has made a world of difference in continual hard braking.
Currently i have the stock compound pads that came with the kit, but i will upgrade them when the time comes.

well worth the upgrade IMHO

[S-Power]

StopTech 332 : )

[Europowerhaus]

Brembos!

[WMi_S4]

StopTech 332 : )

2nd this, main reason i coughed up the 2k for the BBK cuz I have heard *numerous* stories about people toasting their rotors and pads after one day of track use......go big or go home. If you want to know where the cheapest place to get the Stoptech 332 kit, hit me up, i got it for $300 less than any tuner like avalon, achtuning, ect. sells it for....

[rick_chicago]

Everyone's right - you'll want to consider a minimum of rotors, pad and fluids if you're going to track it, BBK if you're going to track it often.

But I might also suggest you take a look at your setup. The stock brakes last more than 3-4 laps at a track day. I've driven the mountain roads around Los Gatos. You shouldn't be getting that much fade after just 10-15 minutes.

[RolledMySTi]

Everyone's right - you'll want to consider a minimum of rotors, pad and fluids if you're going to track it, BBK if you're going to track it often.

But I might also suggest you take a look at your setup. The stock brakes last more than 3-4 laps at a track day. I've driven the mountain roads around Los Gatos. You shouldn't be getting that much fade after just 10-15 minutes.

The rotors are a little warped. They were like that when I got the car, but the pads were pretty new. It look likes the previous owner just did a cheap brake job before selling it. It does have new dot 4 fluid though.

As for the road, I was on Hicks road if you know it. It has some nice elevation changes and on a stretch of down hill is when the brakes cried uncle. On the way back I saw a Taurus on it's roof on a section of road I was on 10 minutes prior. It was some guys in their late teens, early twenties. They were fine. They just got a lesson in why driving a Taurus at speed is not a good idea.

Either way looks like I am going to need new brakes before I spend money on a track day. Which also means new wheels to fit the brakes. So it looks like it's going to be a while before I hit the track.

[rick_chicago]

You'll find my evil twin on the roads - a silver B5 S4 with Oettinger wheels and a stoptech kit. Or he'll be in a 08 Cayman or his wife in a Volvo V70R wagon. Good luck keeping up with them if you do see them! ;) I share his car at track days out there, and can return the favor when he's here now.

I'm running Powerslot rotors and Hawk HPS pads. It's no BBK, but it's fine for the street.

[WMi_S4]

if you do upgrade your brakes, there is no need for new wheels, as stoptech makes there 332 kit specifically to fit our stock Avus wheels

[nizmosx]

alcons ftw. otherwise b6 s4 setup is a good alternative

[audiwop]

After 2 track days I said to hell with getting more speed out of this thing, Stage 3 ain't shit on a track if you cant go deep into a corner. Brembo 355's FTW, SS lines, race fluid and hawk hp-plus pads.

[audiwop]

So I was driving my favorite mountain road today, and after about 10-15 minutes of spirited driving my brakes are faded to the point of having to slow down and drive like a normal person. I know the S4 is no lightweight, but I can't imagine these brakes lasting more than 3-4 laps at the track.

Is this normal? Or did the guy I bought it off of put on a cheap set of pads? It makes me think track time is not worth it until I have a bbk. Those with track experience please shed some light on this.

Also my oil temps were between 250-275. Seemed fine to me. Just want to make sure that is normal and it seems like a an oil cooler may be necessary for the track as well.

And damn I need a rear anti-roll bar. This thing understeers with a capital U.

I do a lot of track days and will tell you this, rear sway is a must as well as a good C/O setup. But your biggest benefit will be track tires and brakes. I run Nitto NT-01's. I was stage 2+ my 1st track day with all stock brakes & suspension. After my C/O's, sway bars, brakes and tires I drop over 6 seconds. If you plan on doing track days do all this first and you will be on your way to a good setup.

[skunkoncrunk]

If you do buy new pads, take it from me that the Hawk HP Plus pads are prone to squeaking on everyday driving. They are great for spirited driving though. Audiwop might say different but he's also running Brembos.

I think later down the road I will invest in a BBK. Braking is serious business.

[nvrfollow]

Yeah stock breaks are not the best, i'm running ceramic pads and slotted rotors and a couple nights ago a buddy with modded sti and i went for a 2 a.m dirt rally to paved hill climb in light rain, when we reached the summit my oil temps hit 275+(not suprising) on the way down i hit the breaks after a short strait away and the break pedal just buttered all the way to the floor and didn't really do anything, when i managed to pull over both front rotors were billowing off smoke and the rotors were glowing bright!

The sti driver said i had been smoking for some time... that has to be the hottest my car has ever been as my exhaust tips melted the bumper :(

temps were at about 50 and the sti's stock brembo's with race pads were fine

[RolledMySTi]

Yeah stock breaks are not the best, i'm running ceramic pads and slotted rotors and a couple nights ago a buddy with modded sti and i went for a 2 a.m dirt rally to paved hill climb in light rain, when we reached the summit my oil temps hit 275+(not suprising) on the way down i hit the breaks after a short strait away and the break pedal just buttered all the way to the floor and didn't really do anything, when i managed to pull over both front rotors were billowing off smoke and the rotors were glowing bright!

The sti driver said i had been smoking for some time... that has to be the hottest my car has ever been as my exhaust tips melted the bumper :(

temps were at about 50 and the sti's stock brembo's with race pads were fine

I believe that. I took my STi to the track the brakes never faded. I miss those brembo's.

[torment]

I like the initial bite our brakes have but the performance is just so-so. Get some ECS cayenne brakes.....pretty damn cheap.

[OldYella]

A set of nice pads and SS lines will do a pretty good job. (and rotors if needed)

[Kruat]

The stock brakes are actually really good for stock. Besides the cars have have brembos and such. I'd suggest adding SS lines, good fluid, better rotor/pads and see how that works out. Alot less money then doing a BBK...

[AudiSportB5S4]

everyone refers to brake fluid as "some good fluid" what would everyone say is the "good fluid" =]

[Kruat]

everyone refers to brake fluid as "some good fluid" what would everyone say is the "good fluid" =]

I use ATE's super blue DOT 5 fluid.

[audiwop]

My hp-plus dont squel that bad at all. I did put the anti squel stuff on when I broke in the pads but don't have much of an issue with sqeeks at all. I ran the pads that came with the brembo's for a little bit but they fell apart after my first track day on them. Hawk is a good way to go. ATE super blue is what I run for fluid, it has a very high boiling point.

[AUDILUX]

There was a great article about a B5 S4 shootout in European Car in 2004, which included testing each S4s stopping distance (3 hard stops from a high rate of speed) as well as lap time around a closed circuit. The car that won for shortest stopping distance had Stoptech 332s up front and S8 rear brakes. Cars w/ stock brakes did ok on the hard stops but sucked it up big time on the track. I'll see if I can scan and post that article at some point in the near future.

[Doc_S4]

everyone refers to brake fluid as "some good fluid" what would everyone say is the "good fluid" =]

ATE Super Blue
Motul RBF600
Castrol makes a really good brake fluid too, don't recall exactly what it's called. It's rather expen$ive though ($75/qt.)

[jibberjive]

NO superblue

[AudiSportB5S4]

see people told me when i went to go buy it that i couldnt use DOT 5 unless i was tracking... ? I ended up with like DOT 3 or 4

[Kruat]

NO superblue

Care to explain why? I've used ATE superblue for years, in my DD and track cars with no problems at all.

[jibberjive]

Care to explain why? I've used ATE superblue for years, in my DD and track cars with no problems at all.

Yeah. I've actually got it in my car right now and am trying to get some RBF600 to replace it asap. It made my clutch pedal have a small squeak every time I push it in right after I flushed it. So I did a little research and apparently it's not good on the rubber seal on our car's master cylinder or something. I wasn't the only one who'd had the problem.

[Squarrl]

see people told me when i went to go buy it that i couldnt use DOT 5 unless i was tracking... ? I ended up with like DOT 3 or 4

U dont want to use DOT 5 its silicon based and for motorcycles will mess up your system... DOT 5.1 is what you want for racing. Dont get confused. You also shouldnt use DOT 3, car came stock with DOT 4 for ABS.

[dennisS4]

My hp-plus dont squel that bad at all. I did put the anti squel stuff on when I broke in the pads but don't have much of an issue with sqeeks at all. I ran the pads that came with the brembo's for a little bit but they fell apart after my first track day on them. Hawk is a good way to go. ATE super blue is what I run for fluid, it has a very high boiling point.

What is this "anti squeal stuff" you speak of???

[audiwop]

What is this "anti squeal stuff" you speak of???

I cant think of the name but I will find out for you when I get home from work.

[SilverSurferS4]

Im running superblue fluid and i never had a problem with it..

[audiwop]

Alright I remembered the name, its a product from BG.

[s4nicetry]

I recently put some ECS stage 4's up front w/ some ATE superblue and the brakes feel great, the only downside I see with them is that stock wheels no longer fit and wheel selection is more limited. I'm sure just good fluid, more aggressive pads and some slotted rotors would be sufficient for most people anyways as long as the car isn't tracked much.

[OneSickSedan]

There was a great article about a B5 S4 shootout in European Car in 2004, which included testing each S4s stopping distance (3 hard stops from a high rate of speed) as well as lap time around a closed circuit. The car that won for shortest stopping distance had Stoptech 332s up front and S8 rear brakes. Cars w/ stock brakes did ok on the hard stops but sucked it up big time on the track. I'll see if I can scan and post that article at some point in the near future.

This magazine with the S4 shootout is always in my backpack. It's a good reference for a lot of things, not just braking. It's good to see what was good back then and what is good now. Good call though.

[rharris]

MOTUL RB600 high temp fluid
Carbotech XP 8 or 10 Pads
Oil Cooler

Have Fun.

[RolledMySTi]

MOTUL RB600 high temp fluid
Carbotech XP 8 or 10 Pads
Oil Cooler

Have Fun.

Yeah. This thing is going to need new rotors, pads and a monster oil cooler before it can see the track.

[jibberjive]

Call me crazy, my stock S4 brakes are TONS better than my 04' A4's brakes. And the stock rotors with race pads have been really decent for me at the track for 3 full days. Oil temps didn't get up either. These were 20 min sessions.

[jibberjive]

Race fluid too

[///M3 TO S4]

I have to agree with this car having some of the worst stock brakes I have ever driven on....especially for a "performance" sedan....they fade in like 3.2 seconds, i'd be terrified to bring this car on a track with the power levels i'm running...
'

[Fast Euro]

Anyone have weird brake behavior in wet conditions? Thats where I am most annoyed with the stock brakes.